• Is the general Dislike of Anime unwarranted?
    438 replies, posted
I associate anime with stupid entertainment and I do judge people by their hobbies.
[QUOTE=kaskade700;34838214]I associate anime with stupid entertainment and I do judge people by their hobbies.[/QUOTE] Well wouldnt that make you a pretty short sighted guy? I would hardly consider some of the best anime stupid. But that's ok, its easier to generalize to make a point, huh?
I think that the majority of anime is and will indefinitely be retarded, but that doesn't mean it's all bad. I've watched and enjoyed many good shows from that crowd, but there are so many unusual and idiotic specimens. It's unfair to hate [I]all[/I] anime, but I sympathise with those who do. They just haven't seen the good side yet.
Listen, from now on, no more "x is y" posts in this thread. If you have something to add to the debate then post about it but provide substance. There seems to just be a stream of 'anime is x and that's what I think' posts without any thought put into them. To quote the sticky: [quote]Start 'effort' posting, especially here, because this is definitely the worst place to shitpost. That means no low-content threads or posts.[/quote] [editline]23rd February 2012[/editline] Anyone continuing to post in this manner will receive a ban. You've been warned.
The local anime club was selling cupcakes and I asked them if they came with tentacles. The only guy there said "I've seen enough hentai to know where this is going." And it was hilarious. Long story short, I don't care, it's just fun to poke fun at. The general dislike is probably unwarranted to some degree but most of it is pretty bad and the crowd associated with it is generally unfavourable.
Since so much so the debate seems to centre around dislike of the fanbase, I'd like to ask how bad you think the anime/manga fanbase is and why it should have any bearing you how you view the medium. To use an example, how many of us dislike Star Wars because of the fanbase? Even the dislike of the fanbase, even the most obsessive (weeaboos/otaku) seems unwarranted. They're generally harmless people who are a bit too into their hobbies. For reasons why you might dislike anime that are more unique to anime; culture shock, generally cheaper budgets (evident in animation), bizarre pacing and writing and catering to a niche of a niche - many of these made worse by economic instability. Of course, with the large variation on the genre, between all to none of these things can be present in any one show. However, pick a particular show randomly and more often than not you'll find these problems. Backing up these statements with examples/evidence is difficult without watching a large enough sample of anime and even if I did I am not a particularly good judge of things like writing and pacing. However, I have read reviews and critiques of anime shows by people I believe to be good judges and that is where my above points stem from.
Its simple. The personalities, characteristics, gestures, and the overall tone of anime is unattractive at every level. It doesn't translate well to the western culture. On average, anime tries too be way to exaggerated in its scenes, like when characters express emotion and anime never finds a middle ground. Its either takes itself too seriously or tries to be too cute or is just plain weird. When you grow up, only funny cartoons are worth watching anyway. The worst thing about anime is the quality of the production. Animation is often as low quality as it gets and the story telling is always sub-par. Even if the concept is cool, its usually poorly executed, you're never really surprised and the characters are often setup so poorly you really don't care about what happens next. It seems the only successful anime series in the history of time was dragon ball z for some reason. I loved it and everyone else did. Probably because it didn't suck and was awesome and they shot lasers out of their hands, and fly, and beat the crap out of each other. The story telling in that was pretty awesome too although dragged out. The reason people who like anime get criticized is because these people are often obsessed with the stuff. Anyone who is obsessed with anything gets picked on and its probably for the best because obsessions are generally unhealthy. Plus the average anime goer usually falls under the anti social category or socially odd category.
[QUOTE=Slight;34845619]Its simple. The personalities, characteristics, gestures, and the overall tone of anime is unattractive at every level. It doesn't translate well to the western culture. On average, anime tries too be way to exaggerated in its scenes, like when characters express emotion and anime never finds a middle ground. Its either takes itself too seriously or tries to be too cute or is just plain weird. [/quote] This is a matter of opinion. Simply because you think it's exaggerated or unattractive at every level does not make it so. [QUOTE=Slight;34845619]When you grow up, only funny cartoons are worth watching anyway.[/quote] What makes you think so? [QUOTE=Slight;34845619]The worst thing about anime is the quality of the production. Animation is often as low quality as it gets and the story telling is always sub-par.[/quote] I have to disagree. Every show has moments with low-quality animation, but that is a budget issue. You can't expect everything to look like Redline or a Disney movie. The majority of western live-action TV has terrible acting and production values. Yet most people appear enjoy them. [QUOTE=Slight;34845619]Even if the concept is cool, its usually poorly executed, you're never really surprised and the characters are often setup so poorly you really don't care about what happens next. [QUOTE=Slight;34845619]It seems the only successful anime series in the history of time was dragon ball z for some reason. I loved it and everyone else did. Probably because it didn't suck and was awesome and they shot lasers out of their hands, and fly, and beat the crap out of each other. The story telling in that was pretty awesome too although dragged out.[/quote] On the standards of anime DBZ is a quite generic shonen action show. Everyone I know liked it because they were children back then. Most are ready to admit that they still have a warm opinion on it due to nostalgia. I'm not saying this is the case with you, I'm just basing this off personal experience though. [QUOTE=Slight;34845619]The reason people who like anime get criticized is because these people are often obsessed with the stuff. Anyone who is obsessed with anything gets picked on and its probably for the best because obsessions are generally unhealthy. Plus the average anime goer usually falls under the anti social category or socially odd category.[/QUOTE] Do you have anything to back this up with? You're just making assumptions.
[QUOTE=Zezibesh;34845735] On the standards of anime DBZ is a quite generic shonen action show. Everyone I know liked it because they were children back then. Most are ready to admit that they still have a warm opinion on it due to nostalgia. I'm not saying this is the case with you, I'm just basing this off personal experience though.[/QUOTE] I agree. While I loved Dragonball Z as a kid (and I'd probably still enjoy it if I were to watch it today), it's not really all that special. The story is enjoyable, but it's pretty basic. It has an underlying idea of good vs. evil and friendship, and the main reason it's so fun because it has elements that most kids like, like people beating each other up, magic, explosions, dragons etc. While it's fun to watch, it doesn't really have any serious underlying messages like other shows (both western and Japanese) do.
[QUOTE=Zezibesh;34845735]This is a matter of opinion. Simply because you think it's exaggerated or unattractive at every level does not make it so. What makes you think so? I have to disagree. Every show has moments with low-quality animation, but that is a budget issue. You can't expect everything to look like Redline or a Disney movie. The majority of western live-action TV has terrible acting and production values. Yet most people appear enjoy them. On the standards of anime DBZ is a quite generic shonen action show. Everyone I know liked it because they were children back then. Most are ready to admit that they still have a warm opinion on it due to nostalgia. I'm not saying this is the case with you, I'm just basing this off personal experience though. Do you have anything to back this up with? You're just making assumptions.[/QUOTE] Are you looking for a factual argument friend? Everything I just said was of course my opinion, no need to point that out. I'm drawing conclusions off of all the people I've encountered IRL and online who like anime, they're usually weird. Go to any anime convention or just look up videos. The people there are different. Socially "different". [b]DBZ:[/b] I can tell you never watched DBZ as a kid. You can insult DBZ all you want, day and night, the facts won't change. Relatively speaking, people watched DBZ more than most anime at the time. For a time it was extremely popular and there's statistical evidence of that, but I don't really care to fetch it. Hell, my dad is the one who showed me it when I was a kid. One thing you can't do is retroactively change your opinion about a show. If you thought it was good as a kid, you thought it was good period. Pokemon was also cool, but I never really watched the shows. Always thought they were sort of boring.
[QUOTE=Slight;34845798]I'm drawing conclusions off of all the people I've encountered IRL and online who like anime, they're usually weird.[/quote] You notice the most vocal ones, the internet brings them out. For my friends it's just another hobby, they don't talk about anime when around people who don't enjoy / watch it. They don't wear anime-related clothing or join anime internet communities. I'm willing to bet that the majority of people who watch anime casually are normal people. [QUOTE=Slight;34845798]Go to any anime convention or just look up videos. The people there are different. Socially "different".[/quote] See above. The moderate fans don't care about the conventions. [QUOTE=Slight;34845798][b]DBZ:[/b] I can tell you never watched DBZ as a kid. You can insult DBZ all you want, day and night, the facts won't change. Relatively speaking, people watched DBZ more than most anime at the time. For a time it was extremely popular and there's statistical evidence of that, but I don't really care to fetch it. Hell, my dad is the one who showed me it when I was a kid.[/quote] I watched DBZ as a kid. I somewhat enjoyed it, less than I enjoy other shows now though. I felt that the ridiculous plotline dragging with power-ups lasting seven episode et cetera was what made it so uninteresting. DBZ was one of the more succesful shows in the west, I agree. It was simple, always had a hook at the end of the episode that kept you returning, and was aimed for kids.
[QUOTE=Slight;34845798]Are you looking for a factual argument friend? Everything I just said was of course my opinion, no need to point that out. I'm drawing conclusions off of all the people I've encountered IRL and online who like anime, they're usually weird. Go to any anime convention or just look up videos. The people there are different. Socially "different". [b]DBZ:[/b] I can tell you never watched DBZ as a kid. You can insult DBZ all you want, day and night, the facts won't change. Relatively speaking, people watched DBZ more than most anime at the time. For a time it was extremely popular and there's statistical evidence of that, but I don't really care to fetch it. Hell, my dad is the one who showed me it when I was a kid. One thing you can't do is retroactively change your opinion about a show. If you thought it was good as a kid, you thought it was good period. Pokemon was also cool, but I never really watched the shows. Always thought they were sort of boring.[/QUOTE] You're in 'mass debate' forum, OF COURSE we're going to point out your opinion and refute it. Tis the nature of a debate forum.
[QUOTE=Governor Goblin;34846279]You're in 'mass debate' forum, OF COURSE we're going to point out your opinion and refute it. Tis the nature of a debate forum.[/QUOTE] Cool story bro, did you forget to make a point? Or is stating obvious facts your strong suite. You're also wrong, the point of the mass debate form is to point out an opinion and debate it. Disagreeing is one option. [QUOTE=Zezibesh;34845873]You notice the most vocal ones, the internet brings them out. For my friends it's just another hobby, they don't talk about anime when around people who don't enjoy / watch it. They don't wear anime-related clothing or join anime internet communities. I'm willing to bet that the majority of people who watch anime casually are normal people.[/quote] Where are they hiding then man? Anime just isn't a normal thing in the west and while its understandable to say "a few make the rest of us look bad", I don't think that's the case. Either way, it all depends on what anime you like I guess. There are some decent, more westernized ones that are more respectable I guess .
[QUOTE=Slight;34857309]You're also wrong, the point of the mass debate form is to point out an opinion and debate it. Disagreeing is one option.[/QUOTE] uh that's the exact same thing I said.
[QUOTE=Slight;34857309]Cool story bro, did you forget to make a point? Or is stating obvious facts your strong suite. You're also wrong, the point of the mass debate form is to point out an opinion and debate it. Disagreeing is one option. Where are they hiding then man? Anime just isn't a normal thing in the west and while its understandable to say "a few make the rest of us look bad", I don't think that's the case. Either way, it all depends on what anime you like I guess. There are some decent, more westernized ones that are more respectable I guess .[/QUOTE] what exactly do you mean by, "more westernized"? and how does that make them more or less respectable? this [img]http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-Hq2YTGN-_vU/TlKaRlENySI/AAAAAAAABgg/qEHk8h-5xho/s1600/mononoke.jpg[/img] is about as japanese as you can get, and yet is probably more respectable than say, Mad Bull 34
It looks like crap and the characters have no detail. The vast majority of it is sexualized beyond belief and for no other reason than to feed some weaboo's fetish. [highlight](User was permabanned for this post ("Trolling/Stating things as fact without evidence after being warned" - Megafan))[/highlight]
[QUOTE=Jabberwocky;34842813]Since so much so the debate seems to centre around dislike of the fanbase, I'd like to ask how bad you think the anime/manga fanbase is and why it should have any bearing you how you view the medium. To use an example, how many of us dislike Star Wars because of the fanbase? Even the dislike of the fanbase, even the most obsessive (weeaboos/otaku) seems unwarranted. They're generally harmless people who are a bit too into their hobbies. For reasons why you might dislike anime that are more unique to anime; culture shock, generally cheaper budgets (evident in animation), bizarre pacing and writing and catering to a niche of a niche - many of these made worse by economic instability. Of course, with the large variation on the genre, between all to none of these things can be present in any one show. However, pick a particular show randomly and more often than not you'll find these problems. Backing up these statements with examples/evidence is difficult without watching a large enough sample of anime and even if I did I am not a particularly good judge of things like writing and pacing. However, I have read reviews and critiques of anime shows by people I believe to be good judges and that is where my above points stem from.[/QUOTE] Again, you're not thinking about [I]how[/I] people come to judge a fanbase. It's the leader figures, the people who are most recognizable, who build a fanbase's public image. And the leader figures tend to be the most devout: which makes sense considering that one needs motivation to create and maintain a community. They draw the border that we ultimately end up using to determine who is and isn't part of a fanbase. The Anime fandom was founded by people who compacted all anime into a single supergenre, and it took pretty much any anime-related thing it could get its hands on under its wing. It completely enveloped anime and almost everything related to it, and the leader figures were the ones representing all of it. The Star Wars fanbase did not do that. It may be led by hopelessly nerdy people, but they represent a much smaller portion of the culture that surrounds Star Wars. They never became representative of the original trilogy or even the prequels, and that's the part that gets noticed the most.
[QUOTE=Slight;34857309] Where are they hiding then man?[/quote] I'd say many of the posters in this thread are normal enough. [QUOTE=Slight;34857309] Anime just isn't a normal thing in the west and while its understandable to say "a few make the rest of us look bad", I don't think that's the case. Either way, it all depends on what anime you like I guess. There are some decent, more westernized ones that are more respectable I guess .[/QUOTE] What makes entertainment objectively better or more respectable if it's "westernized"? Many would consider not watching TV or not enjoying [insert popular sport of your country here] abnormal and weird. [QUOTE=lulzbocksV2;34859278]It looks like crap and the characters have no detail. The vast majority of it is sexualized beyond belief and for no other reason than to feed some weaboo's fetish.[/QUOTE] Looks like crap and lacks detail as compared to what? Western animation? Disney stuff has huge budgets, and Saturday morning cartoons tend to have even worse animation and BGs than the average anime. The vast majority of any entertainment is crap. I don't see how this makes anime any better or worse. Oh, and the largest market for anime is still in Japan. A weaboo is someone who is not Japanese but considers their society, culture, language and entertainment vastly superior to those of his own country and dreams of living in a Japan that is based on fiction. I think you meant pandering to some otaku's fetishes.
[QUOTE=Aredbomb;34859904]Again, you're not thinking about [I]how[/I] people come to judge a fanbase. It's the leader figures, the people who are most recognizable, who build a fanbase's public image. And the leader figures tend to be the most devout: which makes sense considering that one needs motivation to create and maintain a community. They draw the border that we ultimately end up using to determine who is and isn't part of a fanbase. The Anime fandom was founded by people who compacted all anime into a single supergenre, and it took pretty much any anime-related thing it could get its hands on under its wing. It completely enveloped anime and almost everything related to it, and the leader figures were the ones representing all of it. The Star Wars fanbase did not do that. It may be led by hopelessly nerdy people, but they represent a much smaller portion of the culture that surrounds Star Wars. They never became representative of the original trilogy or even the prequels, and that's the part that gets noticed the most.[/QUOTE] But the people that you described as the "leaders" aren't what people would consider the weeaboos. They're the ones who got into anime in the 80's and hold things like Akira in high esteem while being less enthusiastic about the more recent stuff (especially the cutesy girl trend).
[QUOTE=lulzbocksV2;34859278]It looks like crap and the characters have no detail. The vast majority of it is sexualized beyond belief and for no other reason than to feed some weaboo's fetish.[/QUOTE] wow what a thoughtful post lol
[QUOTE=lulzbocksV2;34859278]The vast majority of it is [B]sexualized beyond belief and for no other reason than to feed some weaboo's fetish.[/B][/QUOTE] I actually agree with this. If most anime didn't take the route of random sexual scenes, it wouldn't be that bad. As said in an earlier post of mine, most anime is basically nothing but gore and tits with a half-way decent story that tries to compensate for the huge amounts of gore and half-naked children with over-sized breasts. That's one of the things that really pisses me off. I'm not saying that anime is ultimately going to be shit every time. I know there are good animes out there, they're just really hard to find.
Most anime isn't gory at all, what are you taking about
[QUOTE=Zezibesh;34880595]Most anime isn't gory at all, what are you taking about[/QUOTE] Depends on the anime. Maybe you've just seen all the good anime, I dunno.
[QUOTE=Zezibesh;34880595]Most anime isn't gory at all, what are you taking about[/QUOTE] This, What the fuck. Most anime isn't as oversexualized as everyone claims it to be either.
[QUOTE=deaded38;34880656]Depends on the anime. Maybe you've just seen all the good anime, I dunno.[/QUOTE] Of course it depends on the show, but the majority them are aimed at teenagers and thus cannot be too violent as you seem to suggest.
[QUOTE=NotMeh;34880975]This, What the fuck. Most anime isn't as oversexualized as everyone claims it to be either.[/QUOTE] It isn't extremely oversexualized like I may have made it sound. What I meant is that most anime throws over-sized breasts and stupid scenes of guys hitting on girls in your face or whatever.
Uh no, most of them don't do that either.
[QUOTE=deaded38;34881253]It isn't extremely oversexualized like I may have made it sound. What I meant is that most anime throws over-sized breasts and stupid scenes of guys hitting on girls in your face or whatever.[/QUOTE] A lot of other genres(?) push sex as well, it's just easier to do in anime since they have complete control over what people look like.
[QUOTE=ILY;34881649]A lot of other genres(?) push sex as well, it's just easier to do in anime since they have complete control over what people look like.[/QUOTE] Yes, but not as much as anime.
[QUOTE=Zezibesh;34880595]Most anime isn't gory at all, what are you taking about[/QUOTE] The most of the 80s and 90s ones were, with added profanity from dubs. Despite on how good the animations were, it made them silly to watch because of the entire over-the-top theme.
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