• Atheists are more interested in Religion than most Religious People
    342 replies, posted
[QUOTE=st0rmforce;32544406]I can verify them with my own experiences. Why does everybody think we just believe what we're told like good little sheep? I'm not talking about things I've heard about, I mean that all the christians I know (including myself) have experienced things that they would consider reasons to believe. But if I were to make out a list: a) you'd have to take my word for it and b) you probably wouldn't be very impressed anyway.[/QUOTE] Alright, I'll give you the benefit of the doubt. Name a few experiences. [editline]29th September 2011[/editline] [QUOTE=deaded38;32544544]I haven't dodged anybody, for one. For two, I've clearly stated that I do not believe everything in the Bible. If it can solidly (not just, "ohai teh univerce waz big bangd") be proved with science, then I tend to believe it.[/QUOTE] And yet you've said "the bible is all the proof I need" when asked why you believe in God. If you don't see how that's irrational, then you need to look again.
[QUOTE=AK'z;32544510][IMG]http://i87.photobucket.com/albums/k135/siege223/random/smug.png[/IMG] But in all seriousness, you are merely generalising that "imaginative thinking is bad, we should all be realists". Also, if you really said "You don't need God to be happy", then you are really patronizing. It's like a teacher telling a student "You don't need alcohol to have a good time".[/QUOTE] AK'z what the hell are you doing
[QUOTE=squids_eye;32544796]I just don't like how religion affects people who want nothing to do with it.[/QUOTE] Makes sense, but that's the world we live in.
[QUOTE=Megafanx13;32544822]Alright, I'll give you the benefit of the doubt. Name a few experiences. [editline]29th September 2011[/editline] And yet you've said "the bible is all the proof I need" when asked why you believe in God. If you don't see how that's irrational, then you need to look again.[/QUOTE] I must not have been thinking when I wrote that. Let me correct myself. I believe in God because I don't see how this universe was created by a mystical ball that had supposedly been there all along. I don't want your "sience iz rite becuz we haz proof" crap. I've already said if there is absolute solid proof, that I will believe it. If not, that's shitty.
[QUOTE=AK'z;32544879]Makes sense, but that's the world we live in.[/QUOTE] While that is entirely true, the world won't change if nobody makes a fuss about it. [editline]29th September 2011[/editline] [QUOTE=deaded38;32544941]I must not have been thinking when I wrote that. Let me correct myself. I believe in God because I don't see how this universe was created by a mystical ball that had supposedly been there all along. I don't want your "sience iz rite becuz we haz proof" crap. I've already said if there is absolute solid proof, that I will believe it. If not, that's shitty.[/QUOTE] So a mystical ball doesn't make sense to you but a giant invisible beardy wizard does?
[QUOTE=deaded38;32544941]I must not have been thinking when I wrote that. Let me correct myself. I believe in God because I don't see how this universe was created by a mystical ball that had supposedly been there all along. I don't want your "sience iz rite becuz we haz proof" crap. I've already said if there is absolute solid proof, that I will believe it. If not, that's shitty.[/QUOTE] Mystical ball? It sounds like you're choosing to believe in god simply because you don't understand the alternative.
[QUOTE=deaded38;32544941] I believe in God because I don't see how this universe was created by a mystical ball that had supposedly been there all along. I don't want your "sience iz rite becuz we haz proof" crap. I've already said if there is absolute solid proof, that I will believe it. If not, that's shitty.[/QUOTE] I'm sorry man but there is something horrifically wrong with your thought process. You call the big bang a mystical ball that had been there all along, when it's actually is a theory that has logic and evidence to back it up (yet science isn't claiming to know what happened before the big bang just yet). Yet you believe in another mystical ball that had been there all along (God) and assume he must have created it all instead because a book written by men says so.
[QUOTE=deaded38;32544941]I must not have been thinking when I wrote that. Let me correct myself. I believe in God because I don't see how this universe was created by a mystical ball that had supposedly been there all along. I don't want your "sience iz rite becuz we haz proof" crap. I've already said if there is absolute solid proof, that I will believe it. If not, that's shitty.[/QUOTE] You argument is hard to take seriously when you keep relating scientific statements to terrible internet "dialect".
[QUOTE=squids_eye;32544970]While that is entirely true, the world won't change if nobody makes a fuss about it. [/QUOTE] Some are a bit more stubborn bro. Let things die down in the middle east and we'll get back to the peace road pretty soon. Well not that soon...
please don't take Deaded38's form of argument as the norm for theists, my Jewish friend has on many occasions had rational and drawn out debates with me concerning his faith. I think religion should work on a reconstructionist theory, like a lot of Jews do. fuck I just realised I originally wrote revisionism, which could be taken quite badly by a jewish person
[QUOTE=deaded38;32544941]I don't want your "sience iz rite becuz we haz proof" crap.[/QUOTE] again... Scientists aren't chavs.
I like to learn about other religions out there in the world that i am not familiar with. However in my opinion, I don't really follow religion and the beliefs of gods and goddesses, instead i just follow my own moral code and proper justice.
Religion is an extremely interesting mental development. most religious people just blindly stumble into it without actually taking a step back and [i]thinking[/i] about it. But, if your religious, that would kind of defeat the purpose.
I come from really lefty beat generation parents so I've always been interested in eastern philosophies like Falun gong and Daoism
Would anyone here read the Quran/Koran?
[QUOTE=AK'z;32545276]Would anyone here read the Quran/Koran?[/QUOTE] I haven't read it but I know a few Muslims and it does intrigue me. Especially the misconception that Fatwa is exclusively an assassination thing [editline]29th September 2011[/editline] honestly, I think this [url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reconstructionist_Judaism[/url] is the best form of abrahamic theology I've seen.
[QUOTE=Noble;32545036]I'm sorry man but there is something horrifically wrong with your thought process. You call the big bang a mystical ball that had been there all along, when it's actually is a theory that has logic and evidence to back it up (yet science isn't claiming to know what happened before the big bang just yet). Yet you believe in another mystical ball that had been there all along (God) and assume he must have created it all instead because a book written by men says so.[/QUOTE] The only proof that I know of that science has to support the big bang theory is that the universe is expanding. Other than that, I wouldn't know. And I don't believe that the Bible has anything to do with me believing in God. I believe what I believe because (you even said it yourself) we do not know what happened before the big bang. [editline]29th September 2011[/editline] [QUOTE=Pascall;32545047]You argument is hard to take seriously when you keep relating scientific statements to terrible internet "dialect".[/QUOTE] Shitty. [editline]29th September 2011[/editline] [QUOTE=strayebyrd;32545102]please don't take Deaded38's form of argument as the norm for theists, my Jewish friend has on many occasions had rational and drawn out debates with me concerning his faith. I think religion should work on a reconstructionist theory, like a lot of Jews do. fuck I just realised I originally wrote revisionism, which could be taken quite badly by a jewish person[/QUOTE] Why? Because I am not an overly-religious person? Correct me if I'm wrong.
[QUOTE=deaded38;32545394] Why? Because I am not an overly-religious person? Correct me if I'm wrong.[/QUOTE] your arguments just have an air of juvenility to them, you haven't really looked up both sides of the argument properly, and you haven't even really looked up your own side. Fair enough if you choose to believe what you want, but your attitude towards scientific reasoning is incredibly retroactive
[QUOTE=deaded38;32545394]The only proof that I know of that science has to support the big bang theory is that the universe is expanding. Other than that, I wouldn't know. And I don't believe that the Bible has anything to do with me believing in God. I believe what I believe because (you even said it yourself) we do not know what happened before the big bang. [/QUOTE] So basically your thought process is: "Science doesn't know what happened before the big bang yet.. therefore god_reigns."
[QUOTE=AK'z;32545276]Would anyone here read the Quran/Koran?[/QUOTE] Tried reading it once, just for kicks. It was like all other 600+ year old mythological texts, nothing special, except the way it is set up. The older chapters (as in, those that were written first), which have generally short verses, appear later in the book and deal with the more spiritual and mythological things, while the newer chapters deal with more worldly things, such as lifestyle, warfare, and the like. It was about as positive a reading experience as reading the Bible is.
[QUOTE=deaded38;32544941]I must not have been thinking when I wrote that. Let me correct myself. I believe in God because I don't see how this universe was created by a mystical ball that had supposedly been there all along. I don't want your "sience iz rite becuz we haz proof" crap. I've already said if there is absolute solid proof, that I will believe it. If not, that's shitty.[/QUOTE] The idea of matter coming from a outward expansion seems less plausible to you than some omnipotent entity doing it all? [editline]29th September 2011[/editline] [QUOTE=deaded38;32545394]The only proof that I know of that science has to support the big bang theory is that the universe is expanding. Other than that, I wouldn't know. And I don't believe that the Bible has anything to do with me believing in God. I believe what I believe because (you even said it yourself) we do not know what happened before the big bang.[/QUOTE] So because science does not have the answer to every mystery of life, you default to God because somehow it's more plausible than scientific theory?
[QUOTE=Chrille;32545606] It was about as positive a reading experience as reading the Bible is.[/QUOTE] Well I've only read a bit of it. So I'm guessing it didn't do much for you in terms of emotions. [editline]29th September 2011[/editline] [QUOTE=deaded38;32545394]I believe what I believe because (you even said it yourself) we do not know what happened before the big bang. [/QUOTE] I get it, you don't know what to believe in, so you choose the almighty Man upstairs. Fair enough, if you like him then good for you.
I think some people just follow a religious path because it was basically crammed down their throat by their parents or someone else, and now they don't know how to actually give a good answer for a good question about their own religion. Others are just blind followers who only see it as the only way and nothing else matters, even if they are wrong.
[QUOTE=AK'z;32545664]Well I've only read a bit of it. So I'm guessing it didn't do much for you in terms of emotions.[/QUOTE] Not really. Oh, and I didn't read all of it, might have sounded misguiding before. Mostly the chapters dealing with politics and jihad.
[QUOTE=AK'z;32545664]Well I've only read a bit of it. So I'm guessing it didn't do much for you in terms of emotions.[/QUOTE] I would hope someone would look at the book for what it says, and not just put faith in it based on the stories swaying one's emotions.
[QUOTE=Megafanx13;32545742]I would hope someone would look at the book for what it says, and not just put faith in it based on the stories swaying one's emotions.[/QUOTE] I want to know more about the mythology behind it, because apparently some of the stories aren't exactly "original", some of them are in older books predating all of it. I would research it, but it feels like an arduous task.
[QUOTE=Megafanx13;32544822]Alright, I'll give you the benefit of the doubt. Name a few experiences. [/QUOTE] For me it's mostly little things. Quite a lot of little things throughout a number of years. One example: for the last couple of months I've been going to a new bible-study group run by some members of my church. So far, the theme for nearly every evening has been something that has been on my mind in the days leading up to them. As a result I usually have questions and thoughts lined up ready to discuss. I feel that god made me think about these subjects beforehand so that I have time to think. Generally, if there's something bothering me, somebody is always there ready to help. I've had (what I consider) answers to prayers: such as finding a job that suits me, healing when I smashed my foot with a paving slab and probably the strangest was (to cut a long story short) a friend at church offering to lend me money, completely out of the blue when I really needed it. Also I know a lot of people who have been changed radically for the better after becoming Christians. Seeing what they're like with that purpose in their life makes me feel good. For me there have been loads of times over several years that something (usually small and insignificant to most people) has happened that makes me feel like there is somebody there. There's no way that I can prove any of this and I don't expect you to take my word for it, but you did ask.
[QUOTE=Megafanx13;32544822]Alright, I'll give you the benefit of the doubt. Name a few experiences. [/QUOTE] When I was listening to Pink Floyd's Echoes with big headphones while on a journey, while the weather here was "blizzard-like" and snow everywhere, I felt an "out of body experience" there that can't be compared to much I've experienced in music before. But then again, I've had a lot of them over the last 3 or so years.
The problem with religion is when I know people that have their parents quite literally using it to strangle them. Things like having constant keylogging and screencaps of what they're doing on the computer, extensive parental controls, constant bible-thumping about how they have sinned and must repent, no leaving the house, no walking home, no going out with friends, etc. You see, if you take out religion, all of these actions become far less palatable. Religion is great because it was a form of government before we really figured out the whole government idea, but since then it's really just become a tradition that no one really examines. This is deeply related with the concept of securitization, in which by declaring something a matter of national security we just accept it instead of being able to examine it critically. Discourse is a necessary part of examining any aspect of a debate, and as a result religion is harder to palate because it inherently requires the removal of critical thought and a dependence on faith.
[QUOTE=st0rmforce;32545791]One example: for the last couple of months I've been going to a new bible-study group run by some members of my church. So far, the theme for nearly every evening has been something that has been on my mind in the days leading up to them. As a result I usually have questions and thoughts lined up ready to discuss. I feel that god made me think about these subjects beforehand so that I have time to think. Generally, if there's something bothering me, somebody is always there ready to help.[/quote] Why do you believe God had anything to do with you thinking about these subjects more, and why would he "make you" think about them even if he did? [QUOTE=st0rmforce;32545791]I've had (what I consider) answers to prayers: such as finding a job that suits me, healing when I smashed my foot with a paving slab and probably the strangest was (to cut a long story short) a friend at church offering to lend me money, completely out of the blue when I really needed it.[/quote] Those are not unrealistic occurrences, and frankly I see no point in attributing something like that to God, because like most things of this nature, it's entirely unverifiable. [QUOTE=st0rmforce;32545791]Also I know a lot of people who have been changed radically for the better after becoming Christians. Seeing what they're like with that purpose in their life makes me feel good.[/quote] That's less because of God himself, and more because of them attaining a sense of community, which is fine in its own respect. [QUOTE=st0rmforce;32545791]For me there have been loads of times over several years that something (usually small and insignificant to most people) has happened that makes me feel like there is somebody there. There's no way that I can prove any of this and I don't expect you to take my word for it, but you did ask.[/QUOTE] But this is exactly my point. A handful of seemingly meaningful events that in actuality are not that out of the ordinary don't prove anything really. If God had the time and patience to get you a job or heal your foot, why does he not lift people out of poverty, why not help out other people who are getting cholera or polio in poor parts of the world? If he has the time to help a middle class guy in the US, surely he has time for these other, more important things?
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