• [BuildLog] Pico360
    161 replies, posted
I've finally decided I am going to make my Pico-ITX jacket pocket computer. Basically, It is a full featured x86 computer built inside the case from an XBox 360 HD DVD drive: [img_thumb]http://www.satelliteguys.us/voom/CEDIA-2006/Pictures/XBOX-HDDVD.JPG[/img_thumb] So far I have found these parts from around the internet: Motherboard/CPU/GPU: VIA EPIA-P820-12 Pico-ITX Mainboard [url]http://www.logicsupply.com/products/epia_p820_12[/url] I'm ordering this bundled with a 60w power supply that powers all the components, as well. [img]http://slipperyskip.com/11/026.jpg[/img] Statistics: 1ghz VIA Nano ULV x86 procesor 1 slot 200pin DDR2 800/677 SO-DIMM RAM supports up to 2gb Graphics Accelerator: VIA Chrome9 3D/2D integrated AGP Graphics Controller; supports 1080p hardware accelerated playback. Back Panel I/O: 2x USB 2.0, 1 VGA port, 1x HDMI port, 1x Gigabit Ethernet port Onboard I/O: 1x USB 2.0 pin header for 4 USB 2.0 ports, 1x SATA port, 1x 44-pin micro-IDE port, 1x LPC/SMBus/GPIO pin header (whatever that is), 1x front panel PS/2 pin header, 2x UART ports/VPC pin headers (whatever those are), 1x LVDS pin header (single channel, backlight control), front port audio pin headers (line in/out, mic in), 1x system fan pin header. I should tell you just how [B]TINY[/B] this board is, it's 3.9 by 2.8 inches. That's an entire x86 compatible motherboard right in the palm of your hand. [B]It's around the size of an iPhone![/B] VIA DVI Module and Cable for VIA EPIA EK, N [url]http://www.logicsupply.com/products/dvi_03cg_60[/url] [img]http://www.logicsupply.com/images/photos/accessories/ce.aaccb76e8e0dbaca98c0e1f0d1578eff.DVI-03,j.jpg[/img] Pretty simple, I want a DVI output too for this thing so I'll need this. Plus, it's only $1. Serener Pico-ITX I/O Board Add-On Module [img]http://www.logicsupply.com/images/photos/accessories/ce.e85c276c62e588fd2190088e0cb372d9.pxfpio,j.jpg[/img] [url]http://www.logicsupply.com/products/pxfpio[/url] Easy way to make use of the pin headers without buying their components individually. Also comes with a power button and Power/HDD lights. If it doesn't fit directly to the P820 since it's designed for the PX10000G, I can easily manually wire the headers to it. G.Skill 2gb 200pin DDR2 800 SO-DIMM Laptop Memory [img]http://images17.newegg.com/is/image/newegg/20-231-155-S02?$S640W$[/img] [url]http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820231155[/url] It's memory, what else is there to say? WD Scorpio Blue 160gb 5400rpm 2.5" Laptop Hard Drive [img]http://images17.newegg.com/is/image/newegg/22-136-391-S01?$S640W$[/img] [url]http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16822136391[/url] I went for a medium sized cheap hard drive with good ratings. :siren:[b]I could also replace it with an SSD, but I don't know what a good one to get is![/b]:siren: Philips CDD5263 12mm Slimline DVD/CD+RW ATA Combo Drive [img]http://www.centrix-intl.com/sendbinary.asp?path=G%3A%5Csystem%5Cdescpic%2Fcdd5263%2Ejpg&WIDTH=400[/img] [url]http://www.centrix-intl.com/details.asp?productid=2822[/url] I need a slimline optical drive for this build since a full sized drive fills the entire case, and I needed one with an IDE interface so I could use the SATA port on the motherboard for the hard drive. Which leads us to: Slimline CD to 44-pin Mini-IDE converter [img]http://www.logicsupply.com/images/photos/adapters/SlimCDIDE44_big.jpg[/img] [url]http://www.logicsupply.com/products/slimcdide44[/url] To convert the slimline drive's port to something I can connect to the motherboard. ____________________________ Now I need some help on deciding on my wireless solution. There are two options available to me since the motherboard doesn't have any type of expansion card slot, a Qcom LR802UKG 54 MBps Wireless USB Module[[url]http://www.logicsupply.com/products/lr802ukg][/url] that mounts directly to the USB headers and I can easily mount inside the case or some sort of small USB dongle I can mount outside the case. Normally I would go straight for the internal one, but it's quite expensive once you add an Antenna, which is a shame because I know exactly where I could mount it. There you go, Facepunch, it's my supermegaultra build of tiny. I'll get a fancy logo and some pictures and stuff later. [editline]4th December 2010[/editline] Turns out that the motherboard has the exact same dimensions as, and stacks perfectly with, 2.5" form factor hard drives. This makes mounting the drive a lot easier.
Holy fucking shit. I knew you said you were doing something like this, but that fucking pico-board is small. Seriously, I cannot believe that, all I can say is holy fucking shit.
[QUOTE=Killerelf12;26490473]Holy fucking shit. I knew you said you were doing something like this, but that fucking pico-board is small. Seriously, I cannot believe that, all I can say is holy fucking shit.[/QUOTE] That was my response. I was looking at nettops and netbooks and trying to find the smallest one in the hopes of barely squeezing the board in. Then a facepuncher turned me on to the Nano-ITX Wikipedia link, which turned me on to Pico-ITX. My face: :pcgaming: [editline]4th December 2010[/editline] Here's some comparison shots of the board to items: HDMI Cable: [img]http://slipperyskip.com/11/028.jpg[/img] Mugen CPU cooler: [img]http://slipperyskip.com/11/030.jpg[/img] iPod Touch [img]http://slipperyskip.com/11/024.jpg[/img]
[QUOTE=MacTrekkie;26490496]That was my response. I was looking at nettops and netbooks and trying to find the smallest one in the hopes of barely squeezing the board in. Then a facepuncher turned me on to the Nano-ITX Wikipedia link, which turned me on to Pico-ITX. My face: :pcgaming: [editline]4th December 2010[/editline] Here's some comparison shots of the board to items: HDMI Cable: [img_thumb]http://slipperyskip.com/11/028.jpg[/img_thumb] Mugen CPU cooler: [img_thumb]http://slipperyskip.com/11/030.jpg[/img_thumb] iPod Touch [img_thumb]http://slipperyskip.com/11/024.jpg[/img_thumb][/QUOTE] This is pretty awesome. But really, take your time building it.
$229.00 is a lot for a motherboard of that size/power [editline]4th December 2010[/editline] For wireless, use this: [url]http://www.buyincoins.com/150m-wifi-usb-wireless-network-lan-adapter-card-802-11n-miniusb-product-2464.html[/url] It's the same one that I've used in my X360 PC mod
[QUOTE=B1N4RY!;26490676]$229.00 is a lot for a motherboard of that size/power[/QUOTE] Hell, if you can find a better one, I'm all ears. I chose this one because it has an x86 compatible processor, good video processing for media playback, and some good ports for me to use. Sure it's expensive, but it's great quality. And TINY! [editline]4th December 2010[/editline] Build that I am getting my comparison photos from: [url]http://forums.bit-tech.net/showthread.php?t=184073[/url]
[QUOTE=MacTrekkie;26490746] good video processing for media playback[/QUOTE] [code] VGA: VIA Chrome9 3D/2D AGP Integrated Graphics [/code] I STRONGLY doubt it.
[QUOTE=B1N4RY!;26490785][code] VGA: VIA Chrome9 3D/2D AGP Integrated Graphics [/code] I STRONGLY doubt it.[/QUOTE] It will play 1080p blu-ray videos with only 20% CPU utilization(according to a demonstration video by VIA), that's good enough for me. Once I get the whole thing working I will replace my cheap DVD reader with a proper Blu-Ray drive to take advantage of it. But like I said, if you can find me a better pico-ITX board I will gladly use it. (Already looked at PX10000G, worse than 820 in almost every way)
I don't think you can find any better PicoITX boards for the price. Generally, smaller the form factor, the more expensive it is
That's my point :colbert: Should I try for Mobile-ITX then? Let's see how much I can make this cost :woop: [editline]4th December 2010[/editline] On a more serious note, can someone recommend a decent 40mm case fan? I'm pretty sure the one that Microsoft included in the HD DVD drive case is pretty shitty. I don't need much airflow since none of the components get particularly hot, but I would like it to be quiet. Also, if anyone has owned or seen one of these drives before, have you noticed that the HD DVD drive is better ventilated than the 360 itself? :suicide:
Nice job Mack
Okay, I have another question. It's easier to get decent SATA laptop drives than IDE ones, and easier to get IDE hard drives than IDE disk drives. Should I switch the hard drive to IDE and the disk drive to a SATA one? It will probably make it a lot easier to upgrade to a Blu-Ray drive.
I want to do this myself already
Still waiting for that Wii NAS idea someone had :colbert: If I had the money I would take it up myself.
If you wanted smaller storage I think Kingston has 1.8 inch ssd's
[url]http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820208384[/url] use this [editline]4th December 2010[/editline] nevermind uses some weird interface [url]http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820148358[/url]
[QUOTE=Odellus;26492879][url]http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820208384[/url] use this [editline]4th December 2010[/editline] nevermind uses some weird interface [url]http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820148358[/url][/QUOTE] Actually, I know what that super tiny one's interface is;ZIF. It's the same as used in the iPod classic HDD's. Pretty sure there are converters, but I don't want it to be bottlenecked by the speed of those. [url]http://www.sourcingmap.com/zif-pin-serial-ata-sata-adapter-converter-p-30578.html?utm_source=google&utm_medium=froogle&utm_campaign=usfroogle[/url] Said adapter. Seems like the Crucial is a better value, but I could always get the ZIF one as a backup drive. But then again, the Crucial is 4x the space for a little over 2x the price. That Crucial one looks like a great deal. Is SATA III backwards compatible with SATA 2? I don't know much about 3, other than it's newer. But thanks for the suggestions, when it comes to SSD's I'm next to clueless. [b]Nevermind, read description of product.[/b] [editline]4th December 2010[/editline] [QUOTE=hexpunK;26492618]Still waiting for that Wii NAS idea someone had :colbert: If I had the money I would take it up myself.[/QUOTE] Not really an idea someone had, BINARY posted an empty Wii case from Deal Extreme and since people were asking for things to put computers in. Someone said it would make a kick-ass NAS server, but nobody said they were going to do it.
[QUOTE=MacTrekkie;26492974]Actually, I know what that super tiny one's interface is;ZIF. It's the same as used in the iPod classic HDD's. Pretty sure there are converters, but I don't want it to be bottlenecked by the speed of those. That Crucial one looks like a great deal. Is SATA III backwards compatible with SATA 2? I don't know much about 3, other than it's newer. But thanks for the suggestions, when it comes to SSD's I'm next to clueless. [editline]4th December 2010[/editline] Not really an idea someone had, BINARY posted an empty Wii case from Deal Extreme and since people were asking for things to put computers in. Someone said it would make a kick-ass NAS server, but nobody said they were going to do it.[/QUOTE] No that was my way of foreshadowing saying that I'll consider doing it
[QUOTE=B1N4RY!;26493233]No that was my way of foreshadowing saying that I'll consider doing it[/QUOTE] Should put that in spoiler tags :ninja:
So with all the crap I've gathered up it comes to around $420 with the Scorpio Blue HDD. SSD is just not on the budget for this one, at least not yet. I've started marking off preliminary positioning for things, but I'll need at least the motherboard and disk drive to really figure out where things go. And for the daughter boards I'd need to get them period because they have no size information on them. I'm thinking of mounting the 'front panel' ports on the top of the device, limited to two USB and the line out/in jacks. I'm not doing much fancy metalwork here, at most I'll be making a detachable motherboard tray. The ODD and HDD are going to use simple aluminum mounting brackets attached to the case with either hot glue or epoxy. Much of the screwwork on the inside will be filed down to make room for stuff, and the grid of plastic(for strengthening?) will be filed down. Strength will be achieved by my motherboard, maybe supplanted with glued on aluminum braces. Since the whole thing will weigh about as much as the average netbook/Apple laptop, I don't think strength will be too big a problem. ___________________ Now I have another dilemma. I saved the PCB for the eject button from the 360 HD DVD drive itself, and near as I can tell it still works. How feasible would it be to rewire it to operate the disk drive's ejecting? Since it fits inside perfectly already and looks stylish, I'd like to use it if I can. An alternative would be to use it for the power button, but I would prefer the eject if at all possible. Anyone else worked with slimline disk drives before? [editline]4th December 2010[/editline] Don't mind the busted automerge
Is it possible I hook a battery of sorts into it? If it can, I will probably go and make one for myself.
[QUOTE=QuikKill;26498777]Is it possible I hook a battery of sorts into it? If it can, I will probably go and make one for myself.[/QUOTE] If you can get a rechargable with the right voltage, wattage, and amperage it should be easy to plug it into the DC jack on the motherboard. The motherboard powers all the other components since it has a built in power supply :woop: which means it just needs the one input.
[QUOTE=MacTrekkie;26498929]If you can get a rechargable with the right voltage, wattage, and amperage it should be easy to plug it into the DC jack on the motherboard. The motherboard powers all the other components since it has a built in power supply :woot: which means it just needs the one input.[/QUOTE] I can imagine a cell phone battery or something similar would power it for a few hours at least. And for the burner I found a decent slimline blu ray drive by panasonic for I think 80 bucks. I just don't know what I'd put it in.... Edit: If you don't mind, I might try your idea with the hd dvd player. I'm sure I could pick a broken one up on ebay for pretty cheap. Would there be any chance to fit a mini-itx in there?
[QUOTE=QuikKill;26499012]I can imagine a cell phone battery or something similar would power it for a few hours at least.[/QUOTE] I can see that happening in my dream.
[QUOTE=QuikKill;26499012]I can imagine a cell phone battery or something similar would power it for a few hours at least. And for the burner I found a decent slimline blu ray drive by panasonic for I think 80 bucks. I just don't know what I'd put it in.... Edit: If you don't mind, I might try your idea with the hd dvd player. I'm sure I could pick a broken one up on ebay for pretty cheap. Would there be any chance to fit a mini-itx in there?[/QUOTE] No Mini-ITX, not a chance in hell. It's bigger than the damned case. Nano-ITX is also going to be a pain, too much to justify using it when the Pico-ITX boards are the same price anyways. Also, a cellphone battery would nowhere near powerful enough to run it for a few hours with a mechanical HDD and ODD. An SSD or Compact Flash storage solution will be a lot less demanding, but a laptop battery would be far better. Since the TPD of a VIA Nano processor is less than 10 watts, just about any laptop battery would work. Go ahead with your idea, it's not a new concept, really, this is just the first time I've seen it in a 360 HD DVD player case. Any burner would work fine, but an pATA/IDE interfaced one would be best because most modern hard drives are SATA based and IDE ones are far more expensive for the quality. ODD's are the same pretty much every interface, but Blu-Ray ones are mostly SATA only. But please, let's not dilute this thread further, make your own.(trying not to sound rude)
So my Christmas present this year is the funds to power this build :woop: (does anyone else like this emote a lot?) I've been in a slump in the past couple weeks, after having a crisis of self-worth when I realized that my greatest achievement this month was that I unlocked a TANK in a VIDEO GAME. Then I got so depressed and I couldn't even accomplish anything in a goddamn game, just staring at the screen or the wall moping. Then I realized that now I can do something new, something unique, that nobody has done before. Something I actually know I have the ability to do. It's instilled in my some sort of drive, a motivation I haven't felt since... ever. Then in the past weekend I suddenly decided to stop being a fucking emo and DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT. Then I became a dynamo and started ordering parts, designing, organizing, thinking, sketching, remaking, disassembling, breadboarding, reassembling, fitting, thinking, then redesigning and now I have an idea of how I will make this thing. I am 100% certain I can actually finish this project, and it won't end up in the pile of half-disassembled, half-reassembled unfinished projects that live in the garage. I'm ordering the parts this week, they should arrive by the end of it or the beginning of the next. Expect a tidal wave of updates once that happens. TL;DR:[b] I. Can. DO THIS![/b] [editline]5th December 2010[/editline] Now for a completely related question: Does anyone know where I can custom print those little shiny stickers that companies so often slap on their computers? You know, the ones on shiny foil that say "intel inside" and whatnot. I want to print some for the VIA chipsets in this guy. [editline]5th December 2010[/editline] [img]http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3633/3348481460_d0fe5ec4af.jpg[/img] [img]http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4147/5006561615_b5c48b4a87.jpg[/img] These guys, to be exact.
good luck with this from everyone at disputed productions(me and crunic :)
Trekkie: They're called case badges, I believe. You can order them online, but they usually come with the hardware as a 'accessory'. [url]http://www.thinkgeek.com/homeoffice/stickers/5b43/[/url] Also, I'm quite curious as to where you put the RAM and CPU in that ridiculously small mobo. [editline]7th December 2010[/editline] Unless.. they're both soldered on.
[QUOTE=Xybjj;26526991]Trekkie: They're called case badges, I believe. You can order them online, but they usually come with the hardware as a 'accessory'. [url]http://www.thinkgeek.com/homeoffice/stickers/5b43/[/url] Also, I'm quite curious as to where you put the RAM and CPU in that ridiculously small mobo. [editline]7th December 2010[/editline] Unless.. they're both soldered on.[/QUOTE] It's all integrated on the motherboard.
[QUOTE=Satane;26527758]It's all integrated on the motherboard.[/QUOTE] Close. CPU and Graphics Multimedia Unit are integrated on the board(fun fact: The graphics unit is larger than the CPU by a factor of 3.). The RAM is standard DDR2 SO-DIMM, it's on the bottom of the motherboard. Poor image, but that socket there is where the RAM goes. [img]http://i.ytimg.com/vi/Rc2EnIkjfAA/0.jpg[/img] Take that into consideration. A single RAM stick from your desktop computer has more surface area than this motherboard. Also, thank you Xybjj, I didn't know what they were called. I'll see when the motherboard gets here whether or not it comes with some.
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