• SDK Improvement Group on Steam
    64 replies, posted
  • Avatar of Mr. Chop
  • [img]http://media.steampowered.com/steamcommunity/public/images/avatars/93/934c7af724444c5188f93edd2e33d3bd45227f1f_full.jpg[/img] [b][url]http://steamcommunity.com/groups/fix_the_sdk[/url][/b] [quote]Inspired by Pi Mu Rho's "SDK - Soul Destroying Kit?", we are a group of concerned Source engine Modders banded together for the purpose of petitioning Valve to give the Source SDK the support and maintenance it needs to remain an attractive propostion to veteran Modders and newcomers alike.[/quote] -[url]http://www.halflife2.net/2010/08/16/sdk-soul-destroying-kit/[/url] Personally I'm not a big fan of petitions, but this is just trying to get some attention from Valve. Please join up if you can so the ball can start rolling.
  • Avatar of kukiric
  • My only problem so far is that the source engine is getting outated and falling behind most commercial engines, but I still use it anyway.
  • Avatar of Zally13
  • Joined, I love Valve and Source SDK, but it's starting to feel outdated. I regret not having learned UDK because of this.
  • Avatar of J4censolo
  • I guess I'll join. I'm pretty happy with how Source SDK is at the moment but it could definitely be improved.
  • Avatar of JohnnyBBuild
  • Joined. Dicking around between UDK and SDK is like night and day. Like a New York skyline at night and a ugly cesspool of cardboard in the day.
  • All I want is to make maps with models ONLY! would definitely see an improvement in detail.
  • Avatar of IronPhoenix
  • So, what is the purpose of the group...what do you want to see improved? Do you really want to end up with a package that loses all its accessibility just so you can have dynamic lighting or whatever.
  • I want "entity map" -thing to source. [QUOTE=chaoselite;24258375]All I want is to make maps with models ONLY! would definitely see an improvement in detail.[/QUOTE] That ,will ruin mapping!
  • [QUOTE=oskutin;24258555]That ,will ruin mapping![/QUOTE] I'm not saying make it mandatory that every mapper has to do it, but support for it would be phenomenal. I think visually source would see an improvement along with maybe a performance boost because models can use modular pieces and instance.
  • Avatar of windlab
  • [QUOTE=IronPhoenix;24258421]So, what is the purpose of the group...what do you want to see improved? Do you really want to end up with a package that loses all its accessibility just so you can have dynamic lighting or whatever.[/QUOTE] Most, if not all modders for the Source engine have encountered problems that stem from software bugs or poor usability. Problems that may be worked around, or bypassed using third-party tools, but simply don't exist in comparable game engine SDKs. The purpose of the petition is to see an improvement of the SDK workflow, the usability of the SDK tools, and community relations with Valve. There is a [url=http://www.interlopers.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=22&t=33491&p=433340]more complete outline of the issues at Interlopers[/url]. We are currently drafting a public letter to send to Valve outlining the problems modders face developing for the Source engine, and suggesting possible solutions for Valve to consider. We need Source modders to translate their frustrations to text and propose solutions to them. We hope to achieve that which individual bitching on blogs and forums never will: change.
  • Avatar of robmaister12
  • You can still do that, you just need to wrap the map in nodraw brushes. The source engine would have to become a new engine entirely if you wanted to do it with all models. That means moving away from the bsp format and getting rid of some really good things like PVS/PAS calculations, unless you wanted to dynamically calculate visibility (it requires a lot more work and will lower overall FPS). And you can still instance in Hammer and use groups/visgroups to make a map modular. There's even supposed to be something called Manifest which creates Photoshop-like layers or something like that, I haven't messed with it. I'll wait until Portal 2 comes out, along with it's SDK. If we don't get some major improvements on vertex lighting, cubemap quality, and the ability to use dynamic lights like you would regular lights, then I will consder joining the group.
  • Why won't they just turn Hammer into Opensource Software, that would resolve most of them problems. Because the community could make a big deal of changes improving it! Still this would keep Source Engine itself profitable. But sadly that may never happen because of the history, [quote=Wikipedia]Ben Morris created and released the original Worldcraft in September of 1996 as a tool for creating custom Quake maps. [1] On July 14, 1997, Valve hired Ben Morris and acquired Worldcraft for use in Half Life. [2][/quote]
  • Avatar of robmaister12
  • Ok cool, got ninja'd. Anyways, the only frustrations I have are: -Maya 2008 64-bit SMD exporters don't exist, which is a huge pain in the ass when I want to export my finished models. -Change the Source 2006/2007/2009 compilers to the L4D2 style compiler that doesn't "crash" 2 seconds into VRAD. I've been expecting this update for a long time but it never happened. -I'll occasionally restore the Hammer window from minimize and the all of the 4 screens become unresponsive, even with closing and loading the map. I'd rather not have to cut into what I'm doing to restart Hammer and load my map up just so I can see it. Suggestions: -Halt the compile and automatically load the pointfile if VBSP detects a leak. -I don't have an ATI card, but my friend does, and it would be nice to see Valve release a patch for that annoying unreadable text bug.
  • Avatar of Timenova
  • [QUOTE=robmaister12;24259265] I'll wait until Portal 2 comes out, along with it's SDK. If we don't get some major improvements on vertex lighting, cubemap quality, and the ability to use dynamic lights like you would regular lights, then I will consder joining the group.[/QUOTE] Pretty much this. If Portal 2 and the next Half-Life game sees no improvements, then it means Valve isn't concerned and something should be done about it. I personally don't see many problems with Source, but I'm clearly not noticing enough if many other mappers are finding problems.
  • Oh and fix Hammer so it fucking works for Vista/7 and doesn't crash and BSOD because I didn't close the map when closing Hammer, it's really annoying!
  • Avatar of Pj The Dj
  • [QUOTE=IronPhoenix;24258421]So, what is the purpose of the group...what do you want to see improved? Do you really want to end up with a package that loses all its accessibility just so you can have dynamic lighting or whatever.[/QUOTE] Dynamic lighting only increases accessibility.
  • Avatar of IronPhoenix
  • [QUOTE=Pj The Dj;24260235]Dynamic lighting only increases accessibility.[/QUOTE] Read the post again. What i am saying is that a lot of people want unrealistic things from source. Please understand that unlike udk, the source engine is designed for a very specific type of game. It is also designed for people to be able to use it without needing a bunch of other tools.
  • Avatar of Pj The Dj
  • [QUOTE=IronPhoenix;24261455]Read the post again. What i am saying is that a lot of people want unrealistic things from source. Please understand that unlike udk, the source engine is designed for a very specific type of game. It is also designed for people to be able to use it without needing a bunch of other tools.[/QUOTE] Source needs content made in other tools than hammer just as much as Unreal or any other game needs it. [editline]04:54PM[/editline] I feel like whenever the Unreal 3 vs Source argument comes up, personal ways of mapping seem to get in the way of the arguments for and against improvements. For example, removing reliance on strictly defined world bounds and adding better support for static models is met with absurd opposition. In the same way, great features of unreal's map editor go unwanted.
  • Avatar of IronPhoenix
  • [QUOTE=Pj The Dj;24264485]Source needs content made in other tools than hammer just as much as Unreal or any other game needs it.[/QUOTE] Not as such. UDK works in the sense that models are used far more extensivly than source. In source, you can make a level look quite good with just brushwork.
  • Avatar of Pj The Dj
  • [QUOTE=IronPhoenix;24264699]Not as such. UDK works in the sense that models are used far more extensivly than source. In source, you can make a level look quite good with just brushwork.[/QUOTE] In the same way that you can using CSG. It's a little bit of a misconception that you have to use models. It's a couple of factors really. Static model support was extended to support precompiled lighting and the general consensus is that building maps out of blocks no longer cuts it. With those two in place, CSG can essentially be considered deprecated.
  • Avatar of killer89
  • [QUOTE=chaoselite;24258375]All I want is to make maps with models ONLY! would definitely see an improvement in detail abnd butt rape our rigs with style.[/QUOTE] Fixed.
  • Avatar of Firegod522
  • The thing is you can map with models and only models. Alien swarm is made out of a bunch of models believe it or not.
  • Avatar of Mr. Chop
  • The "improvement" bit is not to extend it beyond anything the SDK already did (at least right now). Especially with the "2009 updates", mods are broken and it's become very hard to manage mounting content. Hammer crashes at rates unparalleled and the SDK tools are outdated and broken as well. We can hope that Valve will fix these soul-crippling issues, but some of us feel it would be better to contact Valve about it before assuming anything. The first course of action is repair. After that, anything new is up to Valve for consideration.
  • Avatar of Firegod522
  • I would like it if they updated vbsp to compile manifest files in the source sdk :argh:
  • Avatar of sphinxa279
  • Not wanting to steal the thread and be a whore but I'd rather not make a new thread: [url]http://steamcommunity.com/groups/HammerMeHard[/url] [editline]07:48PM[/editline] Just for people who want to see my tutorials and a new budding community, competition is open for entry as well :3: [highlight](User was banned for this post ("Thread hijacking" - Benji))[/highlight]