• gm_construct Map Project (The Community-Led update for GMod 13)
    2,587 replies, posted
  • [QUOTE=highvoltage;35404554]In addition to releasing a .vmf of the bunker for people to edit for the map, I plan on also putting out .vmfs for the submarine room/tunnel, the hollow skyscraper, the little tunnel/path thing behind spawn, the top of the stairs from the darkroom (people wanted another room there) and the 3d skybox (not sure how to do this one properly)[/QUOTE] what about a VMF for the tunnels? idk they feel as if they need some work aesthetic-wise and also, for the 3d skybox, you'd probably have to create a fleshed out version of the outside portion of the map and then have that as a VMF. if you want i could probably do it for you real quick
  • [QUOTE=vexx21322;35402997]This is a bad idea, it shouldn't be added.[/QUOTE] wait... what? "Haha April Fools!!!" right? Also I can't wait for those .vmf's cause I want to mess around with that building and the community room
  • [QUOTE=Kavukamari;35406212]wait... what? "Haha April Fools!!!" right?[/QUOTE] Adding a slope instead of stairs is buggy when running up it. Here is a video showing what I mean: [vid]http://puu.sh/nF39[/vid] As you can see, when running up the sloped part I slowed down and glitched a bit. Also, when I jumped against the sloped part I slid up the rest of the way, which isn't normal for stairs.
  • [QUOTE=highvoltage;35406354]Adding a slope instead of stairs is buggy when running up it. Here is a video showing what I mean: As you can see, when running up the sloped part I slowed down and glitched a bit. Also, when I jumped against the sloped part I slid up the rest of the way, which isn't normal for stairs.[/QUOTE] Exactly. Garry slowing down player speed in Gmod 13 helped a little, but you can easily see the problem in Gmod 12 by sprinting up any staircase in a TF2 map.
  • [QUOTE=Zoshi235;35405060]In other source games it's fine and in fact highly recommended, but in Garry's Mod, very bad idea. Not only is there an issue with this version of the engine that makes running up slopes slow and floaty, but since this is a sandbox game, the collisions wouldn't make sense and anything placed on the steps would slide down. How would you make dominoes up the steps, for example?[/QUOTE] [B]Player[/B] clip only effects players props ignore it.
  • [QUOTE=Darkassassin0;35406990][B]Player[/B] clip only effects players props ignore it.[/QUOTE] I got that the last time it was said. I missed the Player Clip part of the message I was replying to.
  • Since its been a while since an update I thought I'd post the latest version in the thread, with lots of bugs fixed and a lot more created. [url]http://www.mediafire.com/?vl53osrcaah1evt[/url] For this update I would prefer people to comment mostly on the tunnel system because that's the major part right now. And remember, the underground room, the submarine room and the hollow skyscraper are going to be posted here later to be improved on. So don't post about how crap they currently are. [B]I also really want to stress the fact that I am quite aware of the lighting issue in the underground room, the dead end/lack of entrance to the empty skyscraper, the blandness at the top of the stairs and the darkness in the stair cases.[/B] Please don't report them. This update is to just to allow people to see my current progress. And I'll make up and post the .vmfs hopefully sometime tomorrow so everyone can start improving them. [editline]2nd April 2012[/editline] And now I'm off to bed
  • Oh god...The new tunnels...So ugly... Seriously, they're like something out of Silent Hill. They don't match at all. Perhaps a higher ceiling, cleaner textures, and reduce the flickering lights to one or two throughout the whole tunnel system. I do like where this is going though. The lighting is much more uniform, and me gusta the increased floorspace.
  • I agree. It just feels out of place. It's an interesting idea by itself, sure, but my biggest problem is that at one moment it's brick and at the next it's "Silent Hill," as if you had an abandoned hospital built into the side of a brick apartment building or something. It's definitely on the right track, if there are to be tunnels they should be wide and spacious, but it still needs work. The biggest challenge will be making the style consistent without having the style become repetitive. I'm just gonna throw this out there for brainstorming, I'm not sure I even agree with the idea but it's a thought: TF2 is very stylized with two unique faces: You have the tranquil, almost natural facade of the two teams visible to the public yet as you advance into their bases it changes into a retro, high-tech, James Bond style super-villain base of sorts. The genius of the art style is that allows for varied environments within the map without becoming repetitive, and it all meshes cleanly. Maybe that's what Construct needs; Not necessarily similar by any means but it could have two themes that could somehow mesh together. Furthermore, a completely original sky box could help to accentuate it to lift Construct out of Half-Life and place it firmly within its own category by creating new models or brush based "whatevers" in order to further accentuate whichever the theme may be. [editline]3rd April 2012[/editline] Also, I think that the proposed tunnel system will be extremely hard to work out, and that we're gonna be working at it for a while. Maybe we should consider planning things on the figurative paper and just noodle around in hammer before we start committing it to the official map (which apparently you guys don't back up for reasons I can't fathom.) [editline]3rd April 2012[/editline] I threw this together very quickly with the idea that we could utilize the public chat for discussion of ideas, concepts, and whatever about the map. It could allow for better discussion than the traditional forums. In addition, HV and CR will be able to post public announcements and events for new releases and/or multiplayer tests. HV and CR appear to be on board for now, and we could make it pretty later. [url]http://steamcommunity.com/groups/GMC13[/url] For now, it's open to the public. Subject to change.
  • [QUOTE=SGTNAPALM;35407806](which apparently you guys don't back up for reasons I can't fathom.) [/QUOTE] I already mentioned that the map has several backups. As of this moment, there are 12 Backups, going back as far as March 23rd, 2012. (When the backup system was finalized)
  • [QUOTE=KD007;35408323]I wouldn't mind the old map... :([/QUOTE] The old map is already there, though It's just a bit bigger
  • [QUOTE=Zoshi235;35407691]Oh god...The new tunnels...So ugly... Seriously, they're like something out of Silent Hill. They don't match at all. Perhaps a higher ceiling, cleaner textures, and reduce the flickering lights to one or two throughout the whole tunnel system. I do like where this is going though. The lighting is much more uniform, and me gusta the increased floorspace.[/QUOTE] And this is why I got pretty mad when they started rushing into adding it. It didn't give people enough time to view and respond to it. [editline]3rd April 2012[/editline] Still, lighting and textures would be very easy to change. Here's a sample based around your suggestions. [t]http://puu.sh/nGJB[/t] Replaced "concrete/concretewall064b" with "concrete/concretewall064a" Changed all lights to use the color "183 239 255 100" Also, the flickering light was just a test, and [del]hopefully didn't get copied over into the actual map.[/del] Just checked it out and saw it did. :v: Suggestion time! [t]http://puu.sh/nGNR[/t] Remove the vertical beams and that double beam on the ceiling? [t]http://puu.sh/nGNP[/t] Remove these beams altogether or stretch it to make it flush. [t]http://puu.sh/nGOD[/t] Removing one stair from the staircase just down that hall connecting the submarine room would allow this hall to be flush. [t]http://puu.sh/nGRL[/t] The entrance to that tunnel seems kind of out of place. Maybe make it like the opposite entrance near the building? [t]http://puu.sh/nGTn[/t] Remove these beams altogether. [t]http://puu.sh/nGTM[/t] Some lighting issues near the color/mirror room. Same issue on the other side. [t]http://puu.sh/nGUW[/t] Two lights, but the light is also shining into the dark room making it not so dark anymore.
  • Are you going to do anything whit the hull of the building that besides the spawn? Or is it fine like that?
  • This project is going great, HighVoltage and Colton have been doing a fantastic job, regardless of whether they are *super uber mappers or not*, the following might seem kinda critical, please don't take it that way. Niggles: - The underwater entrance to the submarine area looks too clean, either garry calls out a cleaner every week or the tunnel has special powers. You don't need to go full on Portal 2 and make the tunnel half collapsed, full of plants and possessed by a psychopathic AI but it looks really weird at the moment. [t]http://cloud.steampowered.com/ugc/576700611182163942/A07F0432D47287E08DA2155D09712B055DFF6A66/[/t] - It's always bugged me how you can't drive a buggy up this, I think there's space to make the steps a bit shallower. - The tunnels, the current ones on workshop are just a tiny bit too small to drive a buggy down, please don't miss this opportunity for some new player to drive down it, the new tunnels look slightly wider so it may already be possible. - The tower with the floors in it needs that hole in the floors back. I don't really think garry was thinking straight when he asked for them to be removed, but it now neglects the main use it was going to have, which is being used for shitty battle floors for those terrible kill breen things. And whilst I and most people probably hate those things new users probably love making them, and considering gm_construct is mostly used by new players you really do need to cater for them quite heavily. In the same manner you need the space there so that people can build elevators for their lair they inevitably build in the tower. Currently the only practical way to get to each floor is no clipping since building an elevator up the side of the tower is in my opinion too difficult. In my opinion all areas of the map should be accessible without noclip... (Except for maybe the skybox) - The vents: too small. It's awkward to move around in them. Also they don't do anything yet, although I assume you're going to add something to it rather than leaving it as a really awkward hiding space (Especially since you have to no clip to get into them with any kind of ease anyway). I'm assuming they're WIP for now. The underground complex was done terribly, and I suspect it's due to lack of mapping experience. I'm stepping into dangerous territory here since I'm not a mapper myself, but I hope this kinda makes sense. The reason why this is one of the first successful attempts on an improvement to gm_construct is because neither of you are excellent mappers, this seems counter-intuitive but bear with me. A decent mapper would turn the map into something different, the theme and tone of the map would be changed entirely, they'd change textures to make it pretty, improve brushwork to make it less blocky. These mappers are too focussed on the aesthetics to realise that this map is primarily to build stuff on, the blockyness makes it more practical, the simple textures don't serve to be a distraction. Also the bits you've done fit in pretty well with garry's not-so-great mapping. The map STILL feels like gm_construct. The underground complex is different, the tunnels themselves are never going to be used for building (Someone might build a train system in there but that's about it), they're either going to be used for posing or shitty kill breens, so suddenly aesthetics aren't that bad to have, they don't distract from anything else and in fact top notch mappers could add SO MUCH here where they would overcomplicate else where. What you need to do is let some really good mappers loose on the underground bit, and it already seems like you're going to do this with the competition thing, just watch out for the style from becoming inconsistent. Optimisation: Again, as a non-mapper I could be wrong about this however I'm braced for boxes. The impression I get is that most of the optimisation can be done post-event, so under what logic would you waste time when making something to see how it looks and to get feedback on it to to also optimise it when it's actually possible to do it after the map is "feature complete" and not waste mapping time on optimising stuff you later remove?
  • [QUOTE=Chippiewill00;35411793] The underground complex is different, the tunnels themselves are never going to be used for building (Someone might build a train system in there but that's about it), they're either going to be used for posing or shitty kill breens, [/QUOTE] This is why I don't understand the point of these tunnels. It seems like their only purpose is to get from one above-ground area in the map to another, but you can already do that by walking above-ground. They're too constricted and dark to actually build anything in, and they're pretty much only there because garry decided we should have them.
  • [QUOTE=BlackAwps;35408555]And this is why I got pretty mad when they started rushing into adding it. It didn't give people enough time to view and respond to it.[/QUOTE] Nobody's "Rushing into" anything. As he said, he's drafting out what another user suggested and letting us decide how to improve it. He has no intention of keeping this for the final version without our and Garry's consent. You'll notice he hasn't even released it to the Workshop.
  • [QUOTE=superadamwo;35411939]This is why I don't understand the point of these tunnels. It seems like their only purpose is to get from one above-ground area in the map to another, but you can already do that by walking above-ground. They're too constricted and dark to actually build anything in, and they're pretty much only there because garry decided we should have them.[/QUOTE] They're there for ragdolls posing, kill breens, building "secret" bases and hopefully driving buggies down. Nobody can really argue that construct is just for building on, primary purpose sure but I'm not going to pretend that the white room, dark room etc. were ever used for building. Some people might even want to play hide and seek on the map. Garry's mod is often just for pissing around on and you cannot forget that.
  • Well, now that the impending crises of Dark Lighting and Unplayable holes in the map are over, time to get back to Nit Picking. The trim here is strangely angled. Watch the blue line in relation to my Crowbar. [VID]http://puu.sh/nJdc[/VID] There's a gap in the Displacement here [IMG]http://www.mediafire.com/conv/ec0ab09310843c19cfb0dcbe1f89c065ec3fa20a51b1b022c9ad729f7bef40cf5g.jpg[/IMG]
  • So this is the first time I've seen this map in a few weeks. What the fuck is with the tunnels? How could they possibly be of use for building (the entire purpose of construct)?
  • Again, I can't stress enough how you're not using light_spots. Using light entity gives that extra lighting above the prop which is unrealistic. [img]http://i.imgur.com/FFyK0.png[/img] You can clearly see the light_spot gives a more realistic appeal, and it looks perfect for an underground environment. With a bit of tweaking from the default settings, you can make it look really good.
  • [QUOTE=Chippiewill00;35412691]Some people might even want to play hide and seek on the map. Garry's mod is often just for pissing around on and you cannot forget that.[/QUOTE] Yeah, this is true. I love how the map has some places to hide in.
  • [QUOTE=Gran PC;35412975]Yeah, this is true. I love how the map has some places to hide in.[/QUOTE] And I hate the way people don't see that!
  • [QUOTE=Scot;35412814]So this is the first time I've seen this map in a few weeks. What the fuck is with the tunnels? How could they possibly be of use for building (the entire purpose of construct)?[/QUOTE] If I'm not mistaken, the tunnels were Garry's idea.
  • [QUOTE=Chippiewill00;35411793] - The tower with the floors in it needs that hole in the floors back. I don't really think garry was thinking straight when he asked for them to be removed, but it now neglects the main use it was going to have, which is being used for shitty battle floors for those terrible kill breen things. And whilst I and most people probably hate those things new users probably love making them, and considering gm_construct is mostly used by new players you really do need to cater for them quite heavily. In the same manner you need the space there so that people can build elevators for their lair they inevitably build in the tower. Currently the only practical way to get to each floor is no clipping since building an elevator up the side of the tower is in my opinion too difficult. In my opinion all areas of the map should be accessible without noclip... (Except for maybe the skybox) [/quote] I agree 100%. The holes in the floors were nice in the building, it made everything a lot more accessible and it just made a lot more sense to me. I especially agree with the notion of making everything accessible without noclip. As someone said earlier in the thread, I think it's important for every area to at least be mostly accessible without noclip, if there is an area that's difficult to get to without noclip, that's fine, but no area except the credits room and skybox (or some other things or whatever, I dunno) should be impossible to reach without noclip, in my opinion. [QUOTE=Chippiewill00;35411793] The reason why this is one of the first successful attempts on an improvement to gm_construct is because neither of you are excellent mappers, this seems counter-intuitive but bear with me. A decent mapper would turn the map into something different, the theme and tone of the map would be changed entirely, they'd change textures to make it pretty, improve brushwork to make it less blocky. These mappers are too focussed on the aesthetics to realise that this map is primarily to build stuff on, the blockyness makes it more practical, the simple textures don't serve to be a distraction. Also the bits you've done fit in pretty well with garry's not-so-great mapping. The map STILL feels like gm_construct. The underground complex is different, the tunnels themselves are never going to be used for building (Someone might build a train system in there but that's about it), they're either going to be used for posing or shitty kill breens, so suddenly aesthetics aren't that bad to have, they don't distract from anything else and in fact top notch mappers could add SO MUCH here where they would overcomplicate else where. What you need to do is let some really good mappers loose on the underground bit, and it already seems like you're going to do this with the competition thing, just watch out for the style from becoming inconsistent. [/quote] I think I get what you mean here. I think this project is great in the first place and does fit the game and the feel of original construct very well. If a "professional" mapper was doing the remake I think there would be too many superfluous things added like all of the construct-flatgrass combo maps all over the place (which aren't bad, per-se, but they wouldn't fit as the new default construct if you ask me) if I remember correctly, weren't the original construct maps (3 through to 9 or so) made by garry personally so that he could mess around easier in the earlier versions of GMod? I like the idea of keeping it a small project, but I also like the idea of expanding to newer/more mappers in the community by having the chance to edit some vmf's for potential modified areas, if you know what I mean. [QUOTE=Chippiewill00;35411793] Optimisation: Again, as a non-mapper I could be wrong about this however I'm braced for boxes. The impression I get is that most of the optimisation can be done post-event, so under what logic would you waste time when making something to see how it looks and to get feedback on it to to also optimise it when it's actually possible to do it after the map is "feature complete" and not waste mapping time on optimising stuff you later remove?[/QUOTE] Yeah I think optimization can be mostly saved until the end, but I'm not sure it matters when it's done, as long as it's done pretty well..
  • [QUOTE=Kavukamari;35414980]I agree 100%. The holes in the floors were nice in the building, it made everything a lot more accessible and it just made a lot more sense to me. I especially agree with the notion of making everything accessible without noclip. As someone said earlier in the thread, I think it's important for every area to at least be mostly accessible without noclip, if there is an area that's difficult to get to without noclip, that's fine, but no area except the credits room and skybox (or some other things or whatever, I dunno) should be impossible to reach without noclip, in my opinion. [/QUOTE] Garry said to remove the holes.
  • [QUOTE=skullorz;35415199]Garry said to remove the holes.[/QUOTE] That doesn't mean we have to keep it like that if the majority of people think it should be the other way, I'm sure garry would understand. (that doesn't mean I think the majority of people DO want it the other way, we should have a vote on it or something to find out)
  • [QUOTE=GameDev;35412856]Again, I can't stress enough how you're not using light_spots. Using light entity gives that extra lighting above the prop which is unrealistic. [img]http://i.imgur.com/FFyK0.png[/img] You can clearly see the light_spot gives a more realistic appeal, and it looks perfect for an underground environment. With a bit of tweaking from the default settings, you can make it look really good.[/QUOTE] Could also simulate light bounce with a light entity at a very low brightness. if used right, it looks good.