• HTML5 & CSS3: Finally time to adopt and forgot older browsers?
    22 replies, posted
  • I'm curious has to how many other developers are using HTML5 and CSS3 these days? I couple of years ago I still had to test using IE6 and up to keep stuff backwards compatible for a few clients. But now I'm more thinking screw it, if they want to be stuck with a old browser they can upgrade for FREE then I'm not wasting my time and I'm going to make something nice and clean while using the newest techniques my browser supports. Today I get the feeling more people are adopting smarter browsers and most (if not all) smart phones and tablets fully support HTML5 and CSS3. I have only seen 1 person in the last year that was still stuck using IE6 and she was a complete freak worried that even if her phone number got online her bank account would be drained. I'm just curious what others are doing for clients these days.
  • You're not the only one; I completely agree with what you're saying. Whilst it's probably not the best attitude, it's probably not the best idea to stick with an out-of-date browser either.
  • Well, you've probably heard of the [URL="http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-18440979"]IE 7 tax[/URL]. I also agree with you and the guys who decided to make a tax on the old Internet Explorers.
  • In the past I've just forced a pop up telling people that the website won't appear properly if they don't upgrade their browser, from then on it isn't really my problem.
  • I don't believe it's okay to refuse access to people on older browsers but I am okay with using new features like css3 and html5 on my sites, when I do though I always make sure that it's only for aesthetic reasons and that everything still works in older browsers.
  • [QUOTE=wizard`;36436177]I don't believe it's okay to refuse access to people on older browsers but I am okay with using new features like css3 and html5 on my sites, when I do though I always make sure that it's only for aesthetic reasons and that everything still works in older browsers.[/QUOTE] You do not necessarily have to refuse them. Like Zerotwelve said earlier, just inform them of their mistake and tell them how to make amends and that's that. If they want to see broken and ugly websites every now and then, that's their problem.
  • A lot of offices and schools are still using IE6 and IE7. My "computer science" teacher literally thought she was teaching us HTML5. It consisted of creating websites using tables and the browser installed was IE7. It's incompetence of the people that are going to use the websites that drags down the development process.
  • Just don't explicitly block users from your website for using browser x, y & z. Unless your website is a rich web application with good reason to make heavy use of client-side javascript, there's no reason for it not to serve its basic purpose* (transmit structured information) regardless of the browser - chrome, ie7, ie6, lynx - it doesn't matter, and if this concept seems alien to you (my dear reader), you are a bad web-developer. * (and even in these situations it's only slightly above trivial to provide static fallbacks)
  • I would hope that some day IE would just die away. Our customers uses IE8, IE9 and Firefox. I have to use several days to fix already working software because IE loves to break layout and other stuff. Sometimes someting may work correctly on IE9 but it breaks in IE8 lol. Oh and what makes this more fun that I'm not writing much of code instead we are using drag & drop style to build UI and I can't easily modify things because code is generated automatically.
  • [QUOTE=GhostKiller;36453837]I would hope that some day IE would just die away. Our customers uses IE8, IE9 and Firefox. I have to use several days to fix already working software because IE loves to break layout and other stuff. Sometimes someting may work correctly on IE9 but it breaks in IE8 lol. Oh and what makes this more fun that I'm not writing much of code instead we are using drag & drop style to build UI and I can't easily modify things because code is generated automatically.[/QUOTE] In the fall, when w8 is released, IE10 will be released together with it. As far as I know, IE10 will keep up with the rest of the browsers with CSS3 and will support more HTML5 than most browsers. The rendering in IE will remain the same tough I believe. :) [editline]edited[/editline] ohh, and Windows update will "force" you to update your browser ;)
  • If you're running a business that targets corporate clients that have shitty IT policies, there isn't much of a choice. I don't support IE6 at work (only IE7+), so at least we're making some progress. Once you work with IE enough, you get to know all of the bugs and limitations, and it becomes intuitive to quickly decide which features will need to gracefully degrade. I don't really mind it. As for apps which are fundamentally built on new browser tech, I think that's fine. If something valuable is built that couldn't possibly work in IE7, that's more ammunition to convince companies to update their policies.
  • [QUOTE=j4NZKUE;36438687]learn to upgrade, that's all i have to say[/QUOTE] I used to be the same type of developer, IE6 HA! Upgrade or fuck off, Then I had to access something on my website from a public computer, everything is locked down, Can't even download firefox, only browser? IE6... I really screwed myself over, until you have this perspective on your own you might not understand. Some people don't have a choice.
  • [QUOTE=zerotwelve;36428279]In the past I've just forced a pop up telling people that the website won't appear properly if they don't upgrade their browser, from then on it isn't really my problem.[/QUOTE] That's a terrible attitude.
  • [QUOTE=nivek;36524674][url]http://modernizr.com/[/url][/QUOTE] Modernizr is only a feature detection library, not a polyfill.
  • [QUOTE=Mr Kirill;36439999]A lot of offices and schools are still using IE6 and IE7. My "computer science" teacher literally thought she was teaching us HTML5. It consisted of creating websites using tables and the browser installed was IE7. It's incompetence of the people that are going to use the websites that drags down the development process.[/QUOTE] What the hell, computer science has almost nothing to do with web development.
  • [QUOTE=Jelly;36528318]Modernizr is only a feature detection library, not a polyfill.[/QUOTE] So therefor it can be used to make a functional experience for all browsers; sure when you're making your own website you can say "yeaah fuck old browsers". But when you work professionally for clients you need it to work in almost all browsers, which is where I use modernizer.
  • It's 2012, if people can't handle upgrading to a new browser that is FREE then they shouldn't be on the internet in the first place. I've adopted HTML5 and CSS3 for my sites and just use a script to detect browser, and if it happens to be outdated, a popup with links directing to newer versions of browsers. Users have NO excuse to not be using an up to date web browser.
  • [QUOTE=baptizedinblood;36561136]It's 2012, if people can't handle upgrading to a new browser that is FREE then they shouldn't be on the internet in the first place. I've adopted HTML5 and CSS3 for my sites and just use a script to detect browser, and if it happens to be outdated, a popup with links directing to newer versions of browsers. Users have NO excuse to not be using an up to date web browser.[/QUOTE] There are lots of excuses. For starters your users may be in a corporate or education environment and lack the ability to install or update software. Just as relevant is most of the visually impaired use a web browser that lack most modern web features. IMO, if you can't be fucked using polyfills and adding cross browser support for old and current browsers then you shouldn't even be a web developer.
  • [QUOTE=baptizedinblood;36561136]It's 2012, if people can't handle upgrading to a new browser that is FREE then they shouldn't be on the internet in the first place. I've adopted HTML5 and CSS3 for my sites and just use a script to detect browser, and if it happens to be outdated, a popup with links directing to newer versions of browsers. Users have NO excuse to not be using an up to date web browser.[/QUOTE] Yes they do! Like Jelly said above me, there are plenty of excuses. To be that ignorant and count out 6.3% of the global internet when designing a website, you are not only being a simply terrible designer, but you're being an absolutely awful businessman.. [editline]3rd July 2012[/editline] [QUOTE=Jelly;36561191]IMO, if you can't be fucked using polyfills and adding cross browser support for old and current browsers then you shouldn't even be a web developer.[/QUOTE] Could not agree more. [editline]3rd July 2012[/editline] Really the big issue is, and continues to be, Microsofts incapability (or refusal?) to add in modern features into its web browsers that Chrome, Firefox and Safari have. Until *all* modern browsers are uniform, then we should never ditch the old technology like some people in this thread are suggesting.
  • [QUOTE=runtime;36603512]Yes they do! Like Jelly said above me, there are plenty of excuses. To be that ignorant and count out 6.3% of the global internet when designing a website, you are not only being a simply terrible designer, but you're being an absolutely awful businessman.. [editline]3rd July 2012[/editline] Could not agree more. [editline]3rd July 2012[/editline] Really the big issue is, and continues to be, Microsofts incapability (or refusal?) to add in modern features into its web browsers that Chrome, Firefox and Safari have. Until *all* modern browsers are uniform, then we should never ditch the old technology like some people in this thread are suggesting.[/QUOTE] 6.3% is kind of a skewed number. Most of the globe is below 5% usage per country. China skews the statistic up with it's 22.4% usage. I think it's safe to assume that, for a first world country website, you can safely drop IE6 support, as most first world countries are below 1% (save the UK, which is at 1.1%).