• Thai central bank rules Bitcoin to be illegal
    95 replies, posted
[QUOTE=Emperorconor;41645120]Moderate inflation is good.[/QUOTE] well thanks for stating the obvious, inflation occurs natually in a market due to the velocity of money. its volume increases the more it is used, again proving my point that anyone who sees this as a zero-sum game is out of their right mind.
[QUOTE=tzoz;41645129]well thanks for stating the obvious, inflation occurs natually in a market due to the velocity of money. its volume increases the more it is used, again proving my point that anyone who sees this as a zero-sum game is out of their right mind.[/QUOTE] Printing money and spending it at the cost of inflation can be good for economies.
[QUOTE=Wizards Court;41641568]eeeeh, aren't bitcoins mostly used by criminals for money laundring anyway? and deluded libertarians lol.[/QUOTE] Damn these dastardly, mustache-twiddling swindlers [url]http://www.gimp.org/[/url]
[QUOTE=Emperorconor;41645162]Printing money and spending it at the cost of inflation can be good for economies.[/QUOTE] again just rehashing my point. the problem occurs when a small group of individuals start fixing prices/interest rates rather than letting the population at large to decide (in other words, the market itself, because all it is is an amalgamation of individuals who are performing the REAL transactions here), or printing like crazy to pay off debts and then having the taxpayer suffer? it wouldn't be such an issue if it weren't compulsory, but then again they couldn't have sustained themselves for this long without doing so.
[QUOTE=tzoz;41645184]again just rehashing my point. the problem occurs when a small group of individuals start fixing prices/interest rates rather than letting the population at large to decide (in other words[/quote] Changing interest rates as a part of monetary policy is fine. Also gold standard leads to horrible deflation, violent booms and sudden slumps, plus its economically pointless to dig up gold with the intention of storing it in a vault somewhere to represent money.
[QUOTE=Emperorconor;41645219]Changing interest rates as a part of monetary policy is fine.[/quote] your statement is incredibly vague, my contention is exactly WHO gets to decide? consolidating this power to a small group who are somehow magically trusted in their authority is completely asinine. case in point? greenspan kept interest rates too low, which dramatically increased the amount of loans being made to potential home and business owners. the problem? since everyone is borrowing money you're going to end up with a very high percentage of people who are cornered in this literal ponzi scheme with no hope of paying back their debt. think of how this could be manipulated? oh wait it has been, case in point Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac. predatory investment banking does have a role in this but only as a result of the failed government policy based on a seemingly good intention of giving everyone a home, so it was only logical to predict that banks would take great advantage of this scenario. [quote]Also gold standard leads to horrible deflation, violent booms and sudden slumps, plus its economically pointless to dig up gold with the intention of storing it in a vault somewhere to represent money.[/QUOTE] gold alone? maybe. for one it has value because it is a rarity and it doesn't rust. those were the MAIN reasons for using it as a currency many centuries ago. now it has many applications in manufacturing, electronics, fashion, etc.. what would be more smart is to base a currency's value on a basket of resources rather than limiting to just one as it can be very volatile. it still doesn't change the fact that gold is still very sought after and keeping some for yourself would be a wise move once your fiat currency crumbles. so my question is, why not base your currency on what is being produced (gross domestic product comes to mind)?
[QUOTE=Tengil;41642912]Alex Jones is a part of the deception. He is the actor who alters the masses perception of what a conspiracy theorist is. After watching Alex's wild rants, what is a conspiracy theorist to you? If you don't fall for the illuminati nonsense, then you will just see a delusional dude who is trying to make money through his show. Either way, you are not getting any closer to the truth.[/QUOTE] Greater control is exerted by a Orwellian utopia. The backhanded dealings as well as others perception of events hides the global exertion of the illuminati, although not affiliated with the freemasons. The illuminati in this day are corporations on the global level, like the too big to fail banks. The freemasons are the opposing force, which at the moment is a little underhanded. It's akin to the patriots from MGS4. They are in total control over economies, but at the same time are hidden by backlot dealings in the name of corporate interests.
[QUOTE=tzoz;41645256]your statement is incredibly vague, my contention is exactly WHO gets to decide?[/quote] The state. More specifically, the central bank. [quote]consolidating this power to a small group who are somehow magically trusted in their authority is completely asinine. case in point? greenspan kept interest rates too low, which dramatically increased the amount of loans being made to potential home and business owners. the problem? since everyone is borrowing money you're going to end up with a very high percentage of people who are cornered in this literal ponzi scheme with no hope of paying back their debt. think of how this could be manipulated? oh wait it has been, case in point Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac. predatory investment banking does have a role in this but only as a result of the failed government policy based on a seemingly good intention of giving everyone a home. unfortunately it doesn't fit reality very well.[/quote] Oh great, an Austrian. Interest rates are used to try and control inflation/unemployment. Lowering interest rates means people are more likely to take loans. Lowering interest rates wasn't what caused that boom and bust (sorry Hayek). Instead it was poor regulation, with banks eager to give out dodgy loans to dodgy people. Lowering interest rates doesn't make a person any dodgier, it just makes somebody more likely to take out a loan. [quote]gold alone? maybe. for one it has value because it is a rarity and it doesn't rust.[/quote] Same with many other materials. Why not advocate a platinum standard? That's more rare! [quote]those were the MAIN reasons for using it as a currency many centuries ago. now it has many applications in manufacturing, electronics, fashion, etc.. what would be more smart is to base a currency's value on a basket of resources rather than limiting to just one as it can be very volatile.[/quote] Golds uses are restricted. Most gold is still stored as bullion. [quote]it still doesn't change the fact that gold is still very sought after and keeping some for yourself would be a wise move once your fiat currency crumbles.[/quote] Name me a time when the fiat currency of America collapsed (excluding the 1770s when it was just forming). [quote]so my question is, why not base your currency on what is being produced (gross domestic product comes to mind)?[/QUOTE] Except the goal is to inflate or deflate currency to stay consistent with economic growth so that you can ensure economic stability. Also hint. A gold standard is literally impossible now. Not enough gold exists on earth to represent all of the wealth in existence (unless you revalue currency massively, oops, I thought the gold standard was meant to prevent that).
[QUOTE=Tengil;41642912]Alex Jones is a part of the deception. He is the actor who alters the masses perception of what a conspiracy theorist is. After watching Alex's wild rants, what is a conspiracy theorist to you? If you don't fall for the illuminati nonsense, then you will just see a delusional dude who is trying to make money through his show. Either way, you are not getting any closer to the truth.[/QUOTE] well its pretty obvious he just puts on his paranoid pathological liar persona as an act. how else would he be able to sustain such a large crowd of vulnerable minds and make millions of dollars doing so? this is the work of a con artist, not a crazed nutty "conspiracy buff".
[QUOTE=Binladen34;41644663]They're as illegal as the stock market is. I bought a fuck load of them when they were dirt cheap, now I'm rich. Sold at 260$ and made a good chunk of change at $623,000.[/QUOTE] Are you telling me that you made 623 THOUSAND dollars off of $260 of bitcoins? Holy shit!
[QUOTE=Emperorconor;41645313]The state. More specifically, the central bank.[/quote] THE central bank, or A central bank? if you're not allowing competition then enjoy your recipe for economic disaster (the evidence is right in front of you). [quote]Oh great, an Austrian. Interest rates are used to try and control inflation/unemployment. Lowering interest rates means people are more likely to take loans. Lowering interest rates wasn't what caused that boom and bust (sorry Hayek). Instead it was poor regulation, with banks eager to give out dodgy loans to dodgy people. Lowering interest rates doesn't make a person any dodgier, it just makes somebody more likely to take out a loan.[/quote] yes congratulations on reading part of my post. you didn't read the rest where they're kept so low for so long and they seem so lucrative to your average joe due to being a LOW RISK investment. that's all fine and dandy but it doesn't generate wealth so much as it just changes hands (much like how bureaucrats are paid). plus, the entire reason gold fluctuates is because of inflation. less inflation, more stability in prices. booms and busts are a product of Keynesian economics (or rather our failed attempt at it, keynes himself would be ashamed). when you allow a central authority to fix prices it sends false signals to the actual people making transactions, thus poor investments are made and the economy collapses. poor regulation indeed, literally. regulations and laws yield poor results when compared to the natural order of things. in any normal banking scenario the banker would never give a loan to someone with poor or a lack of a credit history, that would be awfully stupid on their part right? but oh wait, when governments start subsidizing these loans (as i explained before with FM/FM), the level of risk is reduced, not to mention they FORCED banks to make those loans in the first place, but even if they didn't wouldn't it be logical to assume that banks would take advantage of this? your thinking is completely backwards, the regulation PERIOD allowed for such catastrophes. [quote]Same with many other materials. Why not advocate a platinum standard? That's more rare! Golds uses are restricted. Most gold is still stored as bullion.[/quote] okay, so how does that invalidate the point i'm trying to make? it's worth more because it's a FINITE resource, not based on debt which is entirely imaginary at face value (after all you aren't empirically forced to pay any kind of "debt" now are you?). again relying on just one of these for your perception of your currency's value is foolish so you should read the last sentence of that post again that you just replied to. [quote]Name me a time when the fiat currency of America collapsed (excluding the 1770s when it was just forming).[/quote] you mean like right now? we're definitely on that path if you can't learn from history or failed to pass economics. look at these debt-based fiat systems in europe. they're unsustainable mostly due to the massive size of government (greece, spain, italy, soon to be france, sweden, germany, uk, face it the west is in a steep decline). [quote]Except the goal is to inflate or deflate currency to stay consistent with economic growth so that you can ensure economic stability.[/quote] but the market already does this, so tell me again how you could benefit more by monopolizing this process? oh wait... [quote]Also hint. A gold standard is literally impossible now. Not enough gold exists on earth to represent all of the wealth in existence (unless you revalue currency massively, oops, I thought the gold standard was meant to prevent that).[/QUOTE] impossible now? maybe now due to the plethora of counterfeit credits in circulation. the gold standard was meant to clamp this value so it can't be devalued at will. once you remove this tether to REALITY you're free to counterfeit to your hearts content.
You know, I read the thread title as "The central bank rules Bitcoin to be illegal". I got scared, thought I'd have no way to buy durgs from The Silk Road anymore.
[QUOTE=Elecbullet;41645449]You know, I read the thread title as "The central bank rules Bitcoin to be illegal". I got scared, thought I'd have no way to buy durgs from The Silk Road anymore.[/QUOTE] wouldn't be a surprise if that were true, because now people would see bitcoins as a viable alternative to a hyperinflated counterfeit worthless piece of paper controlled by a monopoly entity. after all, governments HATE competition.
[QUOTE=NoDachi;41641689]its p much the only reason I use them so w/e[/QUOTE] You do realize that Bitcoins have a value in USD or any other currency that fluctuates regularly, and there is a huge group people who make tons of money by selling and buying such bitcoins and other digital currencies at the right time, right? It's an investment, and that's what most people use Bitcoins for.
[QUOTE=LordCrypto;41643227]have you ever tried solving a puzzle with missing pieces? it don't work also newsflash: bitcoins aren't the wonder currency that's going to pay your mortgage[/QUOTE] Please, nobody said that. They're essentially just a finite digital commodity, which also works as a currency for people who value its benefits (instant, global, free to transact, as secure as you want it to be, free to [optionally] mine) over its downfalls (volatility, which is continuing to decrease as adoption rises, and and having more users decreases volatility, which increases adoption...)
Hahahaha, go fuck yourself, Thai bank.
[QUOTE=Emperorconor;41641709] Bitcoin is literally backed up with the promise that the value of it will increase over time, and that it can be used to buy illegal goods.[/QUOTE] Like fiat money is backed by the belief it is valuable? I don't see your point.
[QUOTE=Wizards Court;41641568]eeeeh, aren't bitcoins mostly used by criminals for money laundring anyway? and deluded libertarians lol.[/QUOTE] "deluded libertarians"? you didn't need to say "deluded", it's included in the description of a libertarian
[QUOTE=cody8295;41641574]What principle is that?[/QUOTE] Nonsupported currency in the open market. Generally speaking there's a few exceptions. like an internal currency that can be at wish changed at a fixed in out rate - like casino chips. It's kinda done to protect workers among other stuff. Imagine a company decides it will only pay it's workers in something like bitcoins and the only commonly possible ways of using those bitcoins is from buying services from the company. [QUOTE=Crumpet;41646707]Like fiat money is backed by the belief it is valuable? I don't see your point.[/QUOTE] And a whole supporting legal framework?
[QUOTE=pentium;41642612]Good. They realize it's a pyramid scheme.[/QUOTE] oh my fucking god not this shit again
[QUOTE=wraithcat;41646729]And a whole supporting legal framework?[/QUOTE] What? That's quite irrelevant, just because it is 'legal' doesn't mean it holds any more value.
[QUOTE=Crumpet;41647111]What? That's quite irrelevant, just because it is 'legal' doesn't mean it holds any more value.[/QUOTE] Nor does gold, diamonds or almost anything that's not for direct use or consumption. The thing is that fiat money has certain processes that maintain most of it's value and insure it more or less. Same goes for hard physical goods which were used in trading in the past. Bitcoin on the other hand is going to be insanely volatile pretty much always.
[QUOTE=Antlerp;41646715]"deluded libertarians"? you didn't need to say "deluded", it's included in the description of a libertarian[/QUOTE] agreed, libertarians do tend to speak truth once in a while but they are still ideologically attached to the outdated and immoral notion of the central government. in short? they dont go far enough. they like to stay in the comfort zone and say "oh but it's only a little bit of cancer", cmon, break on through. the government that starts out the smallest always ends up the largest.
[QUOTE=Tengil;41642683]Bitcoin was created to compete with the western corporate & banking oligarchy. However, both fiat currency and bitcoins will be rendered useless very soon. The world is about to be intentionally thrown into complete chaos. Out of the turmoil and ashes, the elite will present us with a new stable gold standard and a global bank. The world economy is about to be rebooted with a fresh global currency. We are actively being prepared for this through the media/entertainment industry. The idea of apocalypse and that gold have great value is now being planted within our minds.[/QUOTE]Ladies and gentlemen, I present to you the gold standard of Poe's Law. [editline]30th July 2013[/editline] [QUOTE=cody8295;41641574]What principle is that?[/QUOTE][url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Truck_system[/url]
Have they even looked into how it functions? It's based on a decentralised network. The Bitcoin co Ltd. company they investigated was just a company that traded in them and not a central point because there is no central point. It will be pretty hard to "ban" it. Even if they somehow managed to block all sites allowing trading with it people would just use TOR.
[QUOTE=tzoz;41645440]THE central bank, or A central bank? if you're not allowing competition then enjoy your recipe for economic disaster (the evidence is right in front of you).[/quote] Most states have a central bank. I don't see how you can confuse them. [quote]yes congratulations on reading part of my post. you didn't read the rest where they're kept so low for so long and they seem so lucrative to your average joe due to being a LOW RISK investment. that's all fine and dandy but it doesn't generate wealth so much as it just changes hands (much like how bureaucrats are paid). plus, the entire reason gold fluctuates is because of inflation. less inflation, more stability in prices.[/quote] Bullshit. Gold wildly fluctuates in prices, especially whenever production goes up and down. Interestingly enough, we had more deflation during times of the gold standard than inflation (deflation is horrible). [quote]booms and busts are a product of Keynesian economics (or rather our failed attempt at it, keynes himself would be ashamed).[/quote] Bullshit. Booms and busts existed longer beforehand. [quote]when you allow a central authority to fix prices it sends false signals to the actual people making transactions, thus poor investments are made and the economy collapses. poor regulation indeed, literally. regulations and laws yield poor results when compared to the natural order of things. in any normal banking scenario the banker would never give a loan to someone with poor or a lack of a credit history, that would be awfully stupid on their part right? but oh wait, when governments start subsidizing these loans (as i explained before with FM/FM), the level of risk is reduced, not to mention they FORCED banks to make those loans in the first place, but even if they didn't wouldn't it be logical to assume that banks would take advantage of this? your thinking is completely backwards, the regulation PERIOD allowed for such catastrophes.[/quote] You're claiming the government forced banks to do this? What crack are you on? Do you even know what Keynesian economics is? [quote]okay, so how does that invalidate the point i'm trying to make? it's worth more because it's a FINITE resource, not based on debt which is entirely imaginary at face value (after all you aren't empirically forced to pay any kind of "debt" now are you?).[/quote] It's finite. So is a governments ability to safely inflate their currency. [quote]again relying on just one of these for your perception of your currency's value is foolish so you should read the last sentence of that post again that you just replied to.[/quote] We're sticking with fiat currency m8. Go take your crackpot ideas elsewhere. [quote]you mean like right now? we're definitely on that path if you can't learn from history or failed to pass economics.[/quote] Have you taken an economics class? [quote]look at these debt-based fiat systems in europe. they're unsustainable mostly due to the massive size of government (greece, spain, italy, soon to be france, sweden, germany, uk, face it the west is in a steep decline).[/quote] Maybe it's because of deflation in Germany, leading to a growing trade surplus with the PIIGS that eventually brings about unemployment and then deficit spending (fiscal policy) being unable to work with monetary policy because of the unique status of the Euro and Germanies control of inflation? :) [quote]impossible now? maybe now due to the plethora of counterfeit credits in circulation. the gold standard was meant to clamp this value so it can't be devalued at will. once you remove this tether to REALITY you're free to counterfeit to your hearts content.[/QUOTE] The point I was making is that the world economy would have a nasty shock if we switched. Please tell me why the West is in decline btw. I'm happy to hear bullshit. :3
The "west" is in relative decline to the "east" but not absolute decline, except for some countries.
[QUOTE=DarkCisco;41645422]Are you telling me that you made 623 THOUSAND dollars off of $260 of bitcoins? Holy shit![/QUOTE] I made a huge investment in October 2012. I bought 3,500 BTC at something like 5$ a piece.
[QUOTE=Antlerp;41648060]The "west" is in relative decline to the "east" but not absolute decline, except for some countries.[/QUOTE] Life is better in the west in 2013 than it was in 1963, so really any talk of a decline is pointless.
[QUOTE=tzoz;41647276]agreed, libertarians do tend to speak truth once in a while but they are still ideologically attached to the outdated and immoral notion of the central government. in short? they dont go far enough. they like to stay in the comfort zone and say "oh but it's only a little bit of cancer", cmon, break on through. the government that starts out the smallest always ends up the largest.[/QUOTE] What the hell are you saying you're not making sense
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