• A Mathematical Model Of Gun Control
    608 replies, posted
[QUOTE=hexpunK;41664752]Or perhaps out society is pushing women into behaving more masculine because that is what we deem as a position of power?[/QUOTE] Your argument is that society invokes more women to now have penis envy and they now need tools to extend their non-existent penises, thus giving them a false sense of masculinity. 10/10 I laughed way harder than I should have. EDIT: I mean, if were going that route might as well ignore the 50+ years of other civil rights advancement too.
[QUOTE=hexpunK;41664789]Research and statistics can bring us into a society where you won't need a pistol to save your ass.[/QUOTE] Yeah sure, research and statistics can totally give cops superpowers. It's commonly known that research and statistics can boost a law enforcer's response time and give them the ability to teleport. [QUOTE]The "strawman" in there does exist, but as pointed out, most people view them as fucking maniacs because they are just that.[/QUOTE] I hate having to repost myself because someone didn't have the common courtesy to read the thread, but... [QUOTE=jimhowl33t;41662320]Saying that most (if not all) gun owners are paranoid psychos who want to kill everything that looks at them funny and overthrow the government because they think Obama is a communist nazi jew, is downright insulting. It's like saying every christian is a gay-flogging creationist, every atheist is a fedora-wearing neckbeard, and so on.[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=jimhowl33t;41664864]Yeah sure, research and statistics can totally give cops superpowers. It's commonly known that research and statistics can boost a law enforcer's response time and give them the ability to teleport.[/QUOTE] Great, yeah, take my point to the absurd that's totally what I meant. No, research and statistics can tell you what's wrong with your society (why do so many people think they need weapons? Why do so many people get killed by various weapons?) and how to fix it, eventually leading to, shock horror! A decline in problems as you solve the causes! [QUOTE]I hate having to repost myself because someone didn't have the common courtesy to read the thread, but...[/QUOTE] I never said "all", I said "a group within the culture". Jesus fuck, you accuse me of not reading?
[img]http://i.imgur.com/9boqmtw.png[/img] hitler's first nazis lmao
[QUOTE=NoDachi;41664932][img]http://i.imgur.com/9boqmtw.png[/img] hitler's first nazis lmao[/QUOTE] [QUOTE] 'Gun owners are insecure with their small penises' [/QUOTE] LAMO.
[QUOTE=NoDachi;41664932][img]http://i.imgur.com/9boqmtw.png[/img] hitler's first nazis lmao[/QUOTE] Oh wow. frozensoda, consider yourself defeated. That is not debate, that's being a pissy little child.
He didn't include what he posted on my thing, did he?
[QUOTE=frozensoda;41665071]He didn't include what he posted on my thing, did he?[/QUOTE] Considering you also sent "You are fucking stupid". I don't think you can argue against it. You lose. Go home now, let the adults debate in peace.
I'd just like to interject here to tell NoDachi that every argument relying on the 'right side of history' is [URL=http://www.gwern.net/The%20Narrowing%20Circle]bullshit[/URL].
[img]https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/6003122/ShareX/2013-07/2013-07-31_22-51-06.png[/img] lmamo look at mi mad burns!!!! Yeah, call your opponents "annoying fuckwads" when we are debating relatively formally for an internet forum (this one in particular), that'll make you look ~~ace pro~~
[QUOTE=hexpunK;41665093] let the adults debate in peace.[/QUOTE] Coming from the guy that thinks women can't possibly own guns for self-defense, but only because of some misplaced penis envy.
[QUOTE=hexpunK;41664958]Oh wow. frozensoda, consider yourself defeated. That is not debate, that's being a pissy little child.[/QUOTE] I don't know why but combined with his avatar I found that visitors message hilarious in a cute way :v:
[QUOTE=hexpunK;41665093]Considering you also sent "You are fucking stupid". I don't think you can argue against it. You lose. Go home now, let the adults debate in peace.[/QUOTE] I'm allowed to have an opinion separate of a debate. That's why I posted it to him and not here.
[QUOTE=Eudoxia;41665102]I'd just like to interject here to tell NoDachi that every argument relying on the 'right side of history' is [URL=http://www.gwern.net/The%20Narrowing%20Circle]bullshit[/URL].[/QUOTE] Thats not what is meant sorry
[QUOTE=hexpunK;41665093]let the adults debate in peace.[/QUOTE] Oh, the irony.
[QUOTE=snapshot32;41665112]Coming from the guy that thinks women can't possibly own guns for self-defense, but only because of some misplaced penis envy.[/QUOTE] Please, continue putting words into my mouth. I've never said women can't own or use guns. [editline]31st July 2013[/editline] [QUOTE=jimhowl33t;41665155]Oh, the irony.[/QUOTE] Doing a better job of debating like a grown up than you are right now.
[QUOTE=hexpunK;41664789]Research and statistics can bring us into a society where you won't need a pistol to save your ass. [/QUOTE] yeah it probably can, and it even may some day, but until then what do you expect people to do, just wait and die?
I am seeing a recurring theme here, a ton of pro-gun "debaters" at the moment seem to be doing nothing but posting insults (straight for thinly veiled), putting words into their opponents mouths, and arguing from emotion and perceived victimisation.
I'm also seeing a recurring theme of people who have no idea what it's like to need a gun arguing against gun ownership
[QUOTE=frozensoda;41665181]yeah it probably can, and it even may some day, but until then what do you expect people to do, just wait and die?[/QUOTE] Take the steps required to fix it? When the research says, 100% "no guns > guns", you can't expect them to just disappear. You can however start taking steps now to curb the problems, rather than just letting them continue or snowball into something the statistics don't apply to any more. [editline]31st July 2013[/editline] [QUOTE=frozensoda;41665199]I'm also seeing a recurring theme of people who have no idea what it's like to need a gun arguing against gun ownership[/QUOTE] Don't need a gun because my society isn't fucked apparently!
[QUOTE=hexpunK;41665166]I've never said women can't own or use guns.[/QUOTE] Where exactly did I state you did? Also, your lack of linguistics is showing. [QUOTE=hexpunK;41664752] Or perhaps out society is pushing women into behaving more masculine because that is what we deem as a position of power?[/QUOTE] [QUOTE=hexpunK;41664752]It just means women are buying it.[/QUOTE] The implied interpretation of these posts is something along the lines of: 'Women are just buying guns to feel more empowered because society makes them want to feel like a man'. The problem with that statement is it assumes women are incapable of both thinking for themselves or comfortable enough with their sexuality they feel the need to buy a tool so's they can feel better about not having a dick.
[QUOTE=hexpunK;41665207]Don't need a gun because my society isn't fucked apparently![/QUOTE] Well not everyone has the privilege of living in the UK where the criminals are nicer ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
[QUOTE=hexpunK;41665190]I am seeing a recurring theme here, a ton of pro-gun "debaters" at the moment seem to be doing nothing but posting insults (straight for thinly veiled), putting words into their opponents mouths, and arguing from emotion and perceived victimisation.[/QUOTE] Because the other side is much better than that, right? Painting gun owners as small-dick sociopaths (as it's the only category of people you fellows mention when talking about gun owners) totally isn't an insult, and refusing to even think that, in a completely different country, someone might actually need a gun to protect him/herself definitely isn't arguing based on emotion.
[QUOTE=jimhowl33t;41665279]Because the other side is much better than that, right? Painting gun owners as small-dick sociopaths (as it's the only category of people you fellows mention when talking about gun owners) totally isn't an insult, and refusing to even think that, in a completely different country, someone might actually need a gun to protect him/herself definitely isn't arguing based on emotion.[/QUOTE] Small-dick psychopaths happen to be the loudest gun owners most of the time, so they are going to get the attention of anyone debating the matter. But I don't think I've ever implied, or outright called, all gun owners small-dicked, or psychopaths. If someone else has, well, I can't really stop them. But you could try being the better man and actually proving them wrong rather than doing a frozensoda and calling them names in return? And so what? A different country shouldn't matter much, you just need to work out the measures to solve the problem that country is suffering, if you [B]need[/B] a gun to protect yourself, then something is clearly wrong and you should fix it. Kinda straightforward. You can compare gun violence rates of countries, much as you can compare obesity rates. The joy of statistics huh? For the record, I personally quite like guns as engineering feats, mechanically they interest me, and perhaps some day when I'm not poor as fuck/ paying off my student loan I would consider purchasing one for range use (which would never be stored at a house where it could be stolen and used criminally). I'm only arguing against the use of them as home defence, and concealed/ open carry, as it just isn't the way to solve a problem of criminals being about. [editline]31st July 2013[/editline] [QUOTE=Eudoxia;41665261]Well not everyone has the privilege of living in the UK where the criminals are nicer ¯\_(ツ)_/¯[/QUOTE] I'd hardly call stabbing or bludgeoning us nicer. But they don't feel the need to grab guns at least. Quite a bit easier to avoid a stabbing or beating than a shooting.
[QUOTE=hexpunK;41665190]I am seeing a recurring theme here, a ton of pro-gun "debaters" at the moment seem to be doing nothing but posting insults (straight for thinly veiled), putting words into their opponents mouths, and arguing from emotion and perceived victimisation.[/QUOTE] I'm sorry, the PRO-gun are insulting people? We're not the ones calling people small-penised psychos. There's also been very little the opposition have put forth to back up their assertions that many US gun owners are apparently overcompensating, irresponsible fuckwads who shoot a gun in the air at random for no reason and are insecure about their masculinity. Just like always, a gun control thread devolves into baseless, stupid insults.
[QUOTE=hexpunK;41665383]I'm only arguing against the use of them as home defence, and concealed/ open carry, as it just isn't the way to solve a problem of criminals being about.[/QUOTE] Well, sure, it's not exactly a long term or universal solution. But we have fire extinguishers, even though there is a police department and even though the 'ideal' solution would be to make everything fireproof, and some of us learn first aid even though we have ambulances and doctors and even though ambulances and medicine are far from ideal.
[QUOTE=Eudoxia;41665261]Well not everyone has the privilege of living in the UK where the criminals are nicer ¯\_(ツ)_/¯[/QUOTE] The UK is more violent than america.
[URL="http://i.imgur.com/QiPpGps.png"]Guns do[/URL] [URL="http://i.imgur.com/qGEy1kw.png"]NOT[/URL] make you safer. Just because you have a gun, you are not less likely to be robbed. In fact, because you have a gun, the person robbing you is more likely to also have a gun. If you get robbed by someone with a gun, you're either getting robbed or getting shot AND robbed. I don't care about the culture behind them, I care about the stats. And no, "b-b-but my friend fought off 15 armed robbers with a glock and a single round" doesn't constitute counter argument.
[QUOTE=Sgt-NiallR;41665779][URL="http://i.imgur.com/QiPpGps.png"]Guns do[/URL] [URL="http://i.imgur.com/qGEy1kw.png"]NOT[/URL] make you safer. Just because you have a gun, you are not less likely to be robbed. In fact, because you have a gun, the person robbing you is more likely to also have a gun. If you get robbed by someone with a gun, you're either getting robbed or getting shot AND robbed. I don't care about the culture behind them, I care about the stats. And no, "b-b-but my friend fought off 15 armed robbers with a glock and a single round" doesn't constitute counter argument.[/QUOTE] Here's an image I scraped up off of /k/. The stats are sourced on the bottom, and if you want to look them up, you'll have to type them out, please forgive me for that. [t]http://i.imgur.com/0v0j0Ht.jpg[/t] Hopefully this will provide some perspective on the necessity of firearms for self defense in the U.S.
Well I can tell that picture is instantly bullshit. [img]http://www.statistics.gov.uk/resources/graph1_tcm119-24124.jpg[/img] statistics.gov.uk Violent crime didn't sore 77% after the handgun ban lmao.
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