• A Mathematical Model Of Gun Control
    608 replies, posted
[QUOTE=Hikaru;41642426]So what you are saying is that just having a gun makes people kill themselves and go on mass shootings. Being in a state of mental illness that isn't being treated properly or at all has nothing to do with it? Are you shitting me right now?[/QUOTE] You can't magic wand mental illness away. People with mental illnesses in most countries don't go shooting - simply because they don't have the same level of firearm access. This is pretty simply stuff.
I am just going to say that it is much more of a benefit to own a gun in a neighborhood like mine than in neighborhoods with a higher average income. I don't think it's fair to compare me owning a gun in an extremely high crime area to someone who wants to own an entire arsenal in the desert somewhere. I don't think that averages apply to this subject.
[QUOTE=frozensoda;41642588] I don't think it's fair to compare me owning a gun in an extremely high crime area to someone who wants to own an entire arsenal in the desert somewhere. I don't think that averages apply to this subject.[/QUOTE] What exactly would be wrong with owning multiple firearms? It's not as if owning more weapons increases your chance of mental instability, or violent tendencies.
[QUOTE=snapshot32;41642661]What exactly would be wrong with owning multiple firearms? It's not as if owning more weapons increases your chance of mental instability, or violent tendencies.[/QUOTE] I didn't mean to imply that, I am just saying that some people try to portray gun owners as these crazies who just stockpile guns for no reason, where in a city like mine there is a very real need to own one.
[QUOTE=frozensoda;41642681]I didn't mean to imply that, I am just saying that some people try to portray gun owners as these crazies who just stockpile guns for no reason, where in a city like mine there is a very real need to own one.[/QUOTE] Why care what some misinformed plebs think of you. More than likely the same people that claim those stereotypes are the same ones that can afford to live in gated communities. Do what you must to preserve yourself, and don't care what other people think.
[QUOTE=snapshot32;41642768]Do what you must to preserve yourself, and don't care what other people think.[/QUOTE] If you completely ignore the fact that owning a firearm doesn't make you any safer, often the opposite.
[QUOTE=NoDachi;41642821]If you completely ignore the fact that owning a firearm doesn't make you any safer.[/QUOTE] There are situations in which a firearm will do more good than harm, you know. The world isn't cut and dry statistics and if you want to tell the kid in the ghetto he cant have his .38 because he might hurt someone, then be my guest, but I'll have you know what you're doing is stupid.
[QUOTE=snapshot32;41642844]There are situations in which a firearm will do more good than harm, you know. The world isn't cut and dry statistics and if you want to tell the kid in the ghetto he cant have his .38 because he might hurt someone, then be my guest, but I'll have you know what you're doing is stupid.[/QUOTE] Yes lets flood the ghetto with firearms. That is what makes it safer.
[QUOTE=snapshot32;41642844]There are situations in which a firearm will do more good than harm, you know. The world isn't cut and dry statistics and if you want to tell the kid in the ghetto he cant have his .38 because he might hurt someone, then be my guest, but I'll have you know what you're doing is stupid.[/QUOTE] Ignoring statistics to rely on anecdotes is not a good way to shape policy
I don't care even if by chance gun crime rises slightly, which is pretty impossible to determine anyway. I believe people should have the right to self defense, and that entails a gun in this modern era. Just on a moral ground regardless of any pros or cons that come of it.
[QUOTE=NoDachi;41642867]Yes lets flood the ghetto with firearms. That is what makes it safer.[/QUOTE] Please indicate where I suggested that. [QUOTE=scout1;41642871]Ignoring statistics to rely on anecdotes is not a good way to shape policy[/QUOTE] Ignoring individual need based on illogical fear is asinine.
[QUOTE=snapshot32;41642903]Please indicate where I suggested that.[/QUOTE] "if you want to tell the kid in the ghetto he cant have his .38 because he might hurt someone, then be my guest, but I'll have you know what you're doing is stupid." You literally said that giving kids in the ghetto access to firearms is the opposite of stupid simply because they live in a bad area. [QUOTE=snapshot32;41642903] Ignoring individual need based on illogical fear is asinine.[/QUOTE] Its not illogical when there is evidence that points to firearms inflating the countries appalling homicide rate.
[QUOTE=hypno-toad;41637790]Gun Control - Reduces Gun violence Gun Bans/Prohibiting certain guns in specific - Not effective The topic of gun control in the US was handled in such a pandering and destructively idiotic fashion that it'll be years before anybody can even propose an effective gun control plan. The high cap magazine and assault weapon bans that were peddled were not going to be effective. Just because gun control works most of the time, doesn't mean you can just go about implementing the shittiest and most ineffectual form of gun control you can possibly conceptualize. If it's not going to be handled in an intelligent and well formulated manner, then the problem shouldn't be handled at all and the roots of violent crime should be adressed and elliviated instead.[/QUOTE] Y'know, I never thought of this 'till now, but one of the reasons I'm sure gun control is so unpopular is because the things masquerading as gun control up to this point have been outright bans. They say it's control, but then ban fictional buzzword shit like "assault and military-style weapons" when that has no bearing on anything. That's not control, it's idiocy.
[QUOTE=snapshot32;41642903] Ignoring individual need based on illogical fear is asinine.[/QUOTE] Statistics is not illogical fear, it's a mathematical analysis of probabilities and can be applied down to the individual population levels.
I don't know or claim to know the effects of more or less guns in my city, but I do know that if someone comes into my house and threatens my family I am going to shoot them. I guess my point is that you can argue about statistics all day long, but I am living it. I deal with high crime, drug addiction, prostitution, gang violence, and things like that every day. I live under fear that someone will want my computer and kill my entire family to get it. I am not going to sacrifice my life for an object, nor would I want to kill someone. But the fact remains that there is a higher chance that I will need a gun to save my life, or my son's or wife's life than in other areas.
[QUOTE=frozensoda;41642931]I don't know or claim to know the effects of more or less guns in my city, but I do know that if someone comes into my house and threatens my family I am going to shoot them.[/QUOTE] Its funny because that firearm is statistically more likely to be used on your family than to protect them. But sure, ignore that for the sake of your hero fantasy.
[QUOTE=NoDachi;41642918]"if you want to tell the kid in the ghetto he cant have his .38 because he might hurt someone, then be my guest, but I'll have you know what you're doing is stupid." You literally said that giving kids in the ghetto access to firearms is the opposite of stupid.[/QUOTE] I'm sorry you lack the ability to correctly decipher my post so I'll go slow this time. Sometimes a gun can be beneficial to your well-being, therefore, it would be bad to deny access to a tool you can use to defend yourself.
[QUOTE=snapshot32;41642958]I'm sorry you lack the ability to correctly decipher my post so I'll go slow this time. Sometimes a gun can be beneficial to your well-being, therefore, it would be bad to deny access to a tool you can use to defend yourself.[/QUOTE] You just don't understand how statistics work. I'm sorry. Sometimes outright murder can be beneficial. I don't see the point. [img]http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/1/13/The_Talented_Mr._Ripley_Cover.jpg[/img]
[QUOTE=NoDachi;41642954]Its funny because that firearm is statistically more likely to be used on your family than to protect them. But sure, ignore that for the sake of your hero fantasy.[/QUOTE] there you go with statistics again, I am statistically more likely to be rich and famous than my neighbors who aren't white and yet I am not. Just like I have had a gun in my house my entire life and no one in my family is dead from it. Statistics are a good guiding light, but not the solution for everything. Even if there is a statistically higher chance that it will be used on my family, what are the statistics about people who don't own guns that get their house broken into by a madman with a gun? How many more people are alive now because they had a gun? Quoting a single misleading statistic does not prove this entire case.
[QUOTE=scout1;41642930]Statistics is not illogical fear, it's a mathematical analysis of probabilities and can be applied down to the individual population levels.[/QUOTE] How can I say this more clearly... Sometimes having access to a weapon is good. If your life is in danger you can use that weapon to defend yourself. Banning something based solely off of it's negative aspects is not intellectually sound. Also if we are going to go to homicide statistics then why don't I need a background check for a hammer? [editline]30th July 2013[/editline] [QUOTE=NoDachi;41642984]You just don't understand how statistics work. I'm sorry. Sometimes outright murder can be beneficial. I don't see the point. [/QUOTE] • Statistics shouldn't be the sole factor in a case like this, at this point you are literally denying a viable and proven means of defense just because it can be used negatively. [QUOTE=NoDachi;41642954]Its funny because that firearm is statistically more likely to be used on your family than to protect them. But sure, ignore that for the sake of your hero fantasy.[/QUOTE] Hero fantasy, seriously? So the alternative would be to call the police, hope they show up in time or get beaten/raped/killed. Okay, your no longer worth my time.
[QUOTE=snapshot32;41642990]How can I say this more clearly... Sometimes having access to a weapon is good. If your life is in danger you can use that weapon to defend yourself. Banning something based solely off of it's negative aspects is not intellectually sound. Also if we are going to go to homicide statistics then why don't I need a background check for a hammer?[/QUOTE] Yes why ever did we ban civilian ownership of chemical weapons? Ah... because statistically the 1 in a million times they'll help somebody they'll kill a lot more. As for hammers, they are utility tools with a wide range of common applications. Also a lot harder to kill someone with a hammer than with a gun.
[QUOTE=snapshot32;41642990]Banning something based solely off of it's negative aspects is not intellectually sound.[/QUOTE] wat I'm sorry but the outright disregard of statistics and research based purely on hypothetics and fantasy is what is truly anti-intellectual.
[QUOTE=NoDachi;41640284]if guns are ~just a tool~ and by simply being a ~tool~ they're not important explain the link between firearm ownership and suicide. I mean they're just ~tools~ right, surely the person would just use a knife, or a box of pills right. Oh wait, no.[/QUOTE] Are you one of these people? [t]http://s24.postimg.org/b7ur3uy3p/damnit_america.png[/t]
did you just try to be witty or something
[QUOTE=NoDachi;41643261]did you just try to be witty or something[/QUOTE] Not sure, but I know you just did
i was being dismissive, not witty
[QUOTE=NoDachi;41643271]i was being dismissive, not witty[/QUOTE] In that case, I was trying to show you what you're beginning to sound like
[QUOTE=BFG9000;41643281]In that case, I was trying to show you what you're beginning to sound like[/QUOTE] Except providing a logical argument with valid reasons, statistics and explanations is absolutely nothing like what you're trying to compare him to.
[QUOTE=TheAdmiester;41643289]Except providing a logical argument with valid reasons, statistics and explanations is absolutely nothing like what you're trying to compare him to.[/QUOTE] [quote]I mean they're just ~tools~ right, surely the person would just use a knife, or a box of pills right. Oh wait, no. [/quote] Its as if he's trying to say guns cause suicide
[QUOTE=BFG9000;41643334]Its as if he's trying to say guns cause suicide[/QUOTE] No he's not, he's saying that if someone is trying to commit suicide, and owns a gun, statistically speaking they're more able to successfully carry out the deed, which is entirely true.
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