• A Mathematical Model Of Gun Control
    608 replies, posted
[QUOTE=TheAdmiester;41643447]No he's not, he's saying that if someone is trying to commit suicide, and owns a gun, statistically speaking they're more able to successfully carry out the deed, which is entirely true.[/QUOTE] So? Of all the things to argue gun control with, I don't see why suicide is even in question
[QUOTE=snapshot32;41642990]Hero fantasy, seriously? So the alternative would be to call the police, hope they show up in time or get beaten/raped/killed. Okay, your no longer worth my time.[/QUOTE] um yeh that alternative sounds pretty good considering that's what every other civilised country on the planet does and they seem to be getting on pretty damn fine without the fear of beating/rape/murder and without the US' horrifically high homicide rates what is it with this pro-gun argument that always comes up about being raped and murdered in your own home by robbers? wake up. this almost never, ever, ever, ever happens. most people are raped and murdered by their own family - people who already live in their homes. you know what enables rape? holding someone at gunpoint with a legally owned firearm regardless, most robbery is done by people in the local area, probably with some prior knowledge of the house and its occupants. robbers dont try to steal from houses where they know the guy lives with a male power fantasy and an ar15. also, if they're going to do that, don't you think they're going to be packing heat? robbers rob for profit. unless you've got some max payne mentalists coming through the door, they're not there to rape your whole family and shit down your neck. don't you think you'd be better of hiding from someone who's just there to steal your tv? oh no of course not because UR AT RISK so you need to go and put a few 5.56 through the fucker. do you know what escalates a fight? pulling out a gun stop perpetuating a fantasy world where you live in some apocalyptic free-for-all rape society
[QUOTE=BFG9000;41643470]So? Of all the things to argue gun control with, I don't see why suicide is even in question[/QUOTE] Because it has to do with guns enabling something, which at the end of the day is ending a life and commiting a crime?
[QUOTE=ChestyMcGee;41643480]um yeh that alternative sounds pretty good considering that's what every other civilised country on the planet does[/QUOTE] Not only did you completely miss the point (which I thought was impossible), you also compared America to other countries, which NEVER WORKS because the social and cultural dynamic of America is so different compared to them not to mention that I can just cite a country that has high gun ownership rates and low crime and completely void that argument
[QUOTE=ChestyMcGee;41643480]um yeh that alternative sounds pretty good considering that's what every other civilised country on the planet does and they seem to be getting on pretty damn fine without the fear of beating/rape/murder and without the US' horrifically high homicide rates what is it with this pro-gun argument that always comes up about being raped and murdered in your own home by robbers? wake up. this almost never, ever, ever, ever happens. most people are raped and murdered by their own family - people who already live in their homes. you know what enables rape? holding someone at gunpoint with a legally owned firearm stop perpetuating a fantasy world where you live in some apocalyptic free-for-all rape society[/QUOTE] Almost never happens? Let me find some links for you about how this very thing happened several times this year in within miles of my house, watch this post im going to be editing it a lot. less than three miles from my home [url]http://rockfordscanner.com/2013/07/29/home-invasion-call-in-loves-park/[/url] less than a mile from my home [url]http://rockfordscanner.com/2013/07/28/aggravated-battery-on-main/[/url] less than two miles from my home [url]http://rockfordscanner.com/2013/07/27/armed-robbery-to-a-citizen-near-auburn/[/url] less than five miles from my home [url]http://rockfordscanner.com/2013/07/27/strong-armed-robbery-call-on-hilton-ave/[/url] less than four miles from my home [url]http://rockfordscanner.com/2013/07/27/three-people-shot-at-a-party-on-rockfords-east-side-rockford/[/url] armed robbery on broadway - 3 blocks from my house [url]http://rockfordscanner.com/2013/07/25/strong-armed-robbery-call-at-broadway-florist-suspects-are-fleeing-from-police/[/url] This is the 5th armed robbery in rockford on broadway in 3 months. What do all of these have in common? They all happened in the last two days. I am going to go back further now and show you 4 cases of someone breaking in and beating/raping a person
[QUOTE=frozensoda;41643520]Almost never happens? Let me find some links for you about how this very thing happened 4 times this year in within 10 blocks of my house, watch this post im going to be editing it a lot.[/QUOTE] you're going to post 4 news articles about mass murders and rapes in robberies within a few miles from your home each year every year? shit i'm gonna be watching this space because it needs to be made into a hollywood film
[QUOTE=TheAdmiester;41643513]Because it has to do with guns enabling something, which at the end of the day is ending a life and commiting a crime?[/QUOTE] Except it doesn't enable it? And when has someone ever been put in jail for attempting suicide? And if you're trying to state the purpose of guns, the purpose of guns is not that over specified as you would hope. No, the purpose of guns is to cause damage at a distance with a certain amount of precision, and that can be applied to many things, not just crime or suicide.
[QUOTE=codemaster85;41641089]implying a pipegun is more accurate and reliable than a regular shotgun/rifle[/QUOTE] a pipe shotgun isn't any less accurate or reliable than a typical shotgun, it's just not as pretty and doesn't come with a manufacturer warranty
[QUOTE=BFG9000;41643515]Not only did you completely miss the point (which I thought was impossible), you also compared America to other countries, which NEVER WORKS because the social and cultural dynamic of America is so different compared to them[/QUOTE] that's the pathetically terrible sadness of it all because it's like we're all just giving up on the country because the majority of its inhabitants are stupid and ride off a piece of legislation written 300 years ago in relation to a major uprising against a violent occupant force which they refuse to let go off because of a self-obessed 'freedom'. it's sad really
[QUOTE=ChestyMcGee;41643525]you're going to post 4 news articles about mass murders and rapes in robberies within a few miles from your home each year every year? shit i'm gonna be watching this space because it needs to be made into a hollywood film[/QUOTE] except this is within days, not years.
[QUOTE=ChestyMcGee;41643554]that's the pathetically terrible sadness of it all because it's like we're all just giving up on the country because the majority of its inhabitants are stupid and ride off a piece of legislation written 300 years ago in relation to a major uprising against a violent occupant force which they refuse to let go off because of a self-obessed 'freedom'. it's sad really[/QUOTE] No, what's sad is that the majority of its inhabitants are stupid and are easily convinced by the government to vote their personal freedoms away for the sake of feeling "safe".
[QUOTE=frozensoda;41643576]except this is within days, not years.[/QUOTE] so it gets even better and you're promising me that you're going to post 4 news articles about mass rape and murder that happened as part of break-ins within a few mile radius of your home over the past FEW DAYS? jesus christ where do you live? somalia? pls immediately contact a hollywood screenwriter
[QUOTE=ChestyMcGee;41643598]so it gets even better and you're promising me that you're going to post 4 news articles about mass rape and murder that happened as part of break-ins within a few mile radius of your home over the past FEW DAYS? jesus christ where do you live? somalia? pls immediately contact a hollywood screenwriter[/QUOTE] I think its more important that you contact your local Angst Control Center.
[QUOTE=ChestyMcGee;41643598]so it gets even better and you're promising me that you're going to post 4 news articles about mass rape and murder that happened as part of break-ins within a few mile radius of your home over the past FEW DAYS? jesus christ where do you live? somalia? pls immediately contact a hollywood screenwriter[/QUOTE] no I mis-read your comment. I meant there is violent crime more than once a day in my city. by the way the first link on taht post is someone who, just today, had there house broken into and was stabbed.
[QUOTE=BFG9000;41643592]No, what's sad is that the majority of its inhabitants are stupid and are easily convinced by the government to vote their personal freedoms away for the sake of feeling "safe".[/QUOTE] it's a personal freedom that statistically offers no benefit and every other country on the planet gets on really happily without... why are you hanging on to it? it's a pathetic traditionalism that's perpetuated by this weird victimisation complex that exists in america where you're all frightened that the government is going to turn into a neo-fascist dictatorship or that you're going to be invaded by a horrible communist super army. grow up
[QUOTE=frozensoda;41643611]no I mis-read your comment. I meant there is violent crime more than once a day in my city.[/QUOTE] Yeah, there's violent crime more than once a day in nearly every city. I can't turn on the news without hearing about a shooting and/or stabbing within a 50km radius of me.
[QUOTE=frozensoda;41643611]no I mis-read your comment. I meant there is violent crime more than once a day in my city.[/QUOTE] .... wow welcome to earth. how long have you been here? it's the same in every city, hell even every suburb on the planet only of course out of the united states you won't hear about people being shot half as often
[QUOTE=ChestyMcGee;41643617]it's a personal freedom that statistically offers no benefit and every other country on the planet gets on really happily without... why are you hanging on to it? it's a pathetic traditionalism that's perpetuated by this weird victimisation complex that exists in america where you're all frightened that the government is going to turn into a neo-fascist dictatorship or that you're going to be invaded by a horrible communist super army. grow up[/QUOTE] Yes because everyone is happy about it right [video=youtube;GfTzPfdzFBY]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GfTzPfdzFBY[/video] "grow up" after you ma'm, I insist
[QUOTE=BFG9000;41643646]Yes because everyone is happy about it right [video=youtube;GfTzPfdzFBY]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GfTzPfdzFBY[/video] "grow up" after you ma'm, I insist[/QUOTE] wow thanks for referencing a video from the 80s/90s that no statistics back up. at all. very relevant
[QUOTE=ChestyMcGee;41643662]wow thanks for referencing a video from the 80s/90s that no statistics back up. at all. very relevant[/QUOTE] as if 15 years later these people don't exist anymore?
[QUOTE=BFG9000;41643646]Yes because everyone is happy about it right [video=youtube;GfTzPfdzFBY]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GfTzPfdzFBY[/video] "grow up" after you ma'm, I insist[/QUOTE] An American news source reporting on a story from the UK, not going to be twisted in any way to defend guns even more... Guns would just be a burden in the UK, they do way more harm than good, and the only people with firearms are the armed police and any special services, who are very rarely needed. Per 100,000 inhabitants, we also have a much lower murder rate than just about anywhere in the US. The UK has never needed guns, and never will.
[QUOTE=BFG9000;41643670]as if 15 years later these people don't exist anymore?[/QUOTE] you know what doesn't exist anymore? the troubles regardless of whether that video was recorded yesterday, it's still irrelevant. it's a march with what? a couple thousand people involved? out of a country with 63 million? even if there were a million people marching it'd still be pointless. the massive majority of the uk isn't interested in it and for good reason - we've never needed guns, we've never been threatened by guns, and the statistics show they don't help
[QUOTE=TheAdmiester;41643681]An American news source reporting on a story from the UK, not going to be twisted in any way to defend guns even more... Guns would just be a burden in the UK, they do way more harm than good, and the only people with firearms are the armed police and any special services, who are very rarely needed. Per 100,000 inhabitants, we also have a much lower murder rate than just about anywhere in the US. The UK has never needed guns, and never will.[/QUOTE] I am so glad that you have lived in every neighbourhood of the UK and are able to speak for everyone. You must be so tired from all that work seeing what its like in other peoples shoes, or maybe it's more likely that YOU have never needed a gun and probably won't. how can you tell americans to stay out of your gun control conversation while simultaneously comparing yourself to us?
[QUOTE=TheAdmiester;41643681]An American news source reporting on a story from the UK, not going to be twisted in any way to defend guns even more... Guns would just be a burden in the UK, they do way more harm than good, and the only people with firearms are the armed police and any special services, who are very rarely needed. Per 100,000 inhabitants, we also have a much lower murder rate than just about anywhere in the US. The UK has never needed guns, and never will.[/QUOTE] Me posting this video was not to imply that a majority of any kind in the UK oppose gun control, but that a decent number of people oppose gun control. AngstyMcGee was acting like everyone else in the world but America is OK with gun control.
[QUOTE=frozensoda;41643705]I am so glad that you have lived in every neighbourhood of the UK and are able to speak for everyone. You must be so tired from all that work seeing what its like in other peoples shoes, or maybe it's more likely that YOU have never needed a gun and probably won't.[/QUOTE] i live in a rough end of a rough city and my parents grew up in much worse areas than i currently live in. their are a lot of muggings and break-ins but thankfully they have decreased over the past 5 years or so but people don't have guns. anywhere in the country. there's so little gun crime it's laughable. even in the worst areas of london, it's national news when ANYONE gets killed with a gun. that's how rare it is
[QUOTE=frozensoda;41643705]I am so glad that you have lived in every neighbourhood of the UK and are able to speak for everyone. You must be so tired from all that work seeing what its like in other peoples shoes, or maybe it's more likely that YOU have never needed a gun and probably won't.[/QUOTE] I'm so glad that you live in the UK and are aware of how, even by 100,000 people, its murder/death tolls are substantially lower than anywhere in the US. Why would anyone else need a gun when they are (or should be) fully aware that the country is far safer without them?
[QUOTE=BFG9000;41643715]AngstyMcGee was acting like everyone else in the world but America is OK with gun control.[/QUOTE] but they are? almost everywhere in terms of built up western countries, even if you can find videos of a measly 1000-2000 people having a moan about wanting their shotguns back france doesn't care italy doesn't care spain doesn't care britain doesn't care australia doesn't care sweden doesn't care i can keep going and in all of these countries, you can happily get a gun if you're: a. a farmer b. interested in the sport of it c. sane how can you argue against that sort of control? OH NO my freedom's are destroyed if i cant buy 5000 rounds of ammunition from walmart without so much as them asking for ID. how frightening
[QUOTE=TheAdmiester;41643731]I'm so glad that you live in the UK and are aware of how, even by 100,000 people, its murder/death tolls are substantially lower than anywhere in the US. Why would anyone else need a gun when they are (or should be) fully aware that the country is far safer without them?[/QUOTE] right your country is safer without them (presumably) but then again the US is known for taking your poor and meek and giving them a chance, unfortunately we also end up with a lot of criminals. Crime is higher here, not just gun violence but all crime. Take that into account and your gun statistics mean nothing
[QUOTE=ChestyMcGee;41643696]you know what doesn't exist anymore? the troubles regardless of whether that video was recorded yesterday, it's still irrelevant. it's a march with what? a couple thousand people involved? out of a country with 63 million? even if there were a million people marching it'd still be pointless. the massive majority of the uk isn't interested in it and for good reason - we've never needed guns, we've never been threatened by guns, and the statistics show they don't help[/QUOTE] So why should your convictions about the state of your country affect US? What works in your country doesn't necessarily work in ours.
[QUOTE=frozensoda;41643751]Crime is higher here, not just gun violence but all crime. Take that into account and your gun statistics mean nothing[/QUOTE] If every crime is higher (and remember I'm discussing per 100,000, I'm assuming you are), then your country as a whole is generally unsafe. That's a bit more to worry about than epople bitching about losing their guns in my opinion.
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