• San Franciso City Supervisor Scott Wiener wishes to end public nudity in San Franciso.
    189 replies, posted
in that picture of them eating in the restaurant... if they don't wear clothes, how do they carry their money/identification/phone?
[QUOTE=Amplar;37951767]in that picture of them eating in the restaurant... if they don't wear clothes, how do they carry their money/identification/phone?[/QUOTE] Most likely a bag or a purse.
[QUOTE=Elecbullet;37942268]I'm all for freedom but public nudity takes it a bit too far[/QUOTE] I know right because it's immoral and jesus told me that god created humans in his perfect image so that he could then say they're gross and make them wear clothes. Being naked doesn't do anything that can harm anyone else, just because you don't like seeing peoples bodies doesn't mean it should be illegal.
[QUOTE=Ardosos;37951287]Decency has nothing to do with it, it's an issue of sanitation.[/QUOTE] The law does not reflect that in any way. It is entirely about decency with no regard to sanitation.
[QUOTE=Paramud;37951460]Then his argument shouldn't entirely be "it's disgusting."[/QUOTE] Sanitation issues are disgusting. [QUOTE=Thy Reaper;37952400]The law does not reflect that in any way. It is entirely about decency with no regard to sanitation.[/QUOTE] The laws in their current state are poor, I'm not arguing that. I'm just saying that there are legitimate arguments besides "it's obscene, think of the children!".
[QUOTE=Ardosos;37951287]Decency has nothing to do with it, it's an issue of sanitation.[/QUOTE] Actually, its not an issue of sanitation, at least not any less than that between you and anyone else around you. You can't assume that they are a sanitation problem just because they are naked. [editline]7th October 2012[/editline] [QUOTE=Ardosos;37953936]I'm just saying that there are more illegitimate arguments besides "it's obscene, think of the children!".[/QUOTE] ftfy
[QUOTE=3picFail;37954197]Actually, its not an issue of sanitation, at least not any less than that between you and anyone else around you. You can't assume that they are a sanitation problem just because they are naked. [editline]7th October 2012[/editline] ftfy[/QUOTE] Alright, let me put this as objectively as possible - for every square inch of skin exposed, there exists a number of potential issues, there is sweat, potential open sores, cysts, rashes, and any number of other bacteria, dirt or infectants. Logically, the more area of skin is exposed, the more this chance increases. As such, you have a potential problem that can be easily somewhat combated (by wearing clothing), and the solution is not harmful to others (because nobody [I]needs[/I] to be naked, outside of a few psychological reasons, or in cases of specific articles of clothing causing allergic reactions). All of this is ignoring the higher-contaminate areas of the body that are traditionally covered in clothing (the genital region), as well as areas of the body that have a higher risk of being hygienically neglected. Please note the absence of key words such as "obscene" or "decency" or "vulgar" in the above statements. [editline]e[/editline] To summarize, I can think of a number of reasons against public nudity, and far less reasons in favor of it. If you can think of any that somehow combat or negate the reasons against, I'm all ears.
[QUOTE=3picFail;37954197]Actually, its not an issue of sanitation, at least not any less than that between you and anyone else around you. You can't assume that they are a sanitation problem just because they are naked. [editline]7th October 2012[/editline] ftfy[/QUOTE] How about a majority of people do not want a bunch of nudists waltzing about in the open, or that some people don't have the capacity to tolerate it? Nudity should only be allowed within private places, and going on about personal freedoms is just an awful, redundant argument since it can go either way.
[QUOTE=U.S.S.R;37954419]How about a majority of people do not want a bunch of nudists waltzing about in the open, or that some people don't have the capacity to tolerate it?[/QUOTE] Because a majority of people can never be wrong, right? [QUOTE=Ardosos;37954403]Alright, let me put this as objectively as possible - for every square inch of skin exposed, there exists a number of potential issues, there is sweat, potential open sores, cysts, rashes, and any number of other bacteria, dirt or infectants. Logically, the more area of skin is exposed, the more this chance increases. As such, you have a potential problem that can be easily somewhat combated (by wearing clothing), and the solution is not harmful to others (because nobody [I]needs[/I] to be naked, outside of a few psychological reasons, or in cases of specific articles of clothing causing allergic reactions). All of this is ignoring the higher-contaminate areas of the body that are traditionally covered in clothing (the genital region), as well as areas of the body that have a higher risk of being hygienically neglected. Please note the absence of key words such as "obscene" or "decency" or "vulgar" in the above statements. [editline]e[/editline] To summarize, I can think of a number of reasons against public nudity, and far less reasons in favor of it. If you can think of any that somehow combat or negate the reasons against, I'm all ears.[/QUOTE] All good points which are mysteriously vacant from most of Primigenes' posts.
[QUOTE=Paramud;37954518]Because a majority of people can never be wrong, right?[/QUOTE] The majority should have to tolerate something they find disgusting, revolting, and unsanitary? Something that isn't necessary at all, and doesn't have any place within equality or fairness. I don't care about San Francisco, but I'd scream if it was legal anywhere else. I don't want disgusting, uncovered flesh surrounding me, I don't feel comfortable around the clothed populace anyway. This isn't a matter of human rights or anything, this is a minority people exposing themselves, lowering the sanitary state of everything around them, and causing discomfort in others.
[QUOTE=U.S.S.R;37954555]The majority should have to tolerate something they find disgusting, revolting, and unsanitary?[/quote] If what they find disgusting isn't wrong, then yes. They should. You don't get to criminalize something because you don't like how it looks. I suggest you read a fucking history book if you think that's a good argument. As for sanitation, the effects are not as extreme as you think. I'll find a study to cite.
[QUOTE=U.S.S.R;37954555]The majority should have to tolerate something they find disgusting, revolting, and unsanitary? Something that isn't necessary at all, and doesn't have any place within equality or fairness. I don't care about San Francisco, but I'd scream if it was legal anywhere else. I don't want disgusting, uncovered flesh surrounding me, I don't feel comfortable around the clothed populace anyway. This isn't a matter of human rights or anything, this is a minority people exposing themselves, lowering the sanitary state of everything around them, and causing discomfort in others.[/QUOTE] It is a matter of human rights though the right to decide how one presents one's self
[QUOTE=Paramud;37954591]If what they find disgusting isn't wrong, then yes. They should. You don't get to criminalize something because you don't like how it looks. I suggest you read a fucking history book if you think that's a good argument.[/QUOTE] What does history have anything to do with this if it isn't an issue of civil rights? It isn't. You don't need to be nude, you don't need to show your body off to others and set your most unsanitary parts about. It [b]is[/b] wrong to a large group, but that isn't the issue. It doesn't matter if it is wrong or right. It's better to protect the people who can't deal with disgusting shit like this than to allow a minority of people to prance about nude so they can catch the air. [editline]8th October 2012[/editline] [QUOTE=Maloof?;37954648]It is a matter of human rights though the right to decide how one presents one's self[/QUOTE] And what about my right to not have to deal with something that I can't mentally handle? It isn't some issue of life and death or equality. It is a minor thing. Artistic expression shouldn't come over sanitation or someone's ability to cope with societal interaction.
[QUOTE=U.S.S.R;37954658]What does history have anything to do with this if it isn't an issue of civil rights? It isn't. You don't need to be nude, you don't need to show your body off to others and set your most unsanitary parts about. It [b]is[/b] wrong to a large group, but that isn't the issue. It doesn't matter if it is wrong or right. It's better to protect the people who can't deal with disgusting shit like this than to allow a minority of people to prance about nude so they can catch the air. [editline]8th October 2012[/editline] And what about my right to not have to deal with something that I can't mentally handle? It isn't some issue of life and death or equality. It is a minor thing. Artistic expression shouldn't come over sanitation or someone's ability to cope with societal interaction.[/QUOTE] Is seeing a naked person when you weren't expecting it going to make you have a mental breakdown? [QUOTE=U.S.S.R;37954658] set your most unsanitary parts about. [/QUOTE] I think you'll find that the genitals are often the cleanest parts of the human body, given that we tend to wash them more thoroughly due to that perception that they are inherently filthy
[QUOTE=U.S.S.R;37954658]It's better to protect the people who can't deal with disgusting shit like this than to allow a minority of people to prance about nude so they can catch the air. And what about my right to not have to deal with something that I can't mentally handle?[/QUOTE] If you can't handle nudity, I'm sorry. I really am. But that does not give you the right to criminalize something harmless, just because you can't stand it. That is not how the law works.
Even if sanitation isn't an issue, it still is something that'd socially break my last functioning limb. People shouldn't have to tolerate it, it isn't a right that someone has to have to live normally.
[QUOTE=U.S.S.R;37954717] something that'd socially break my last functioning limb. [/QUOTE] you'll have to explain that one, sorry, I'm not sure what you mean
[QUOTE=Maloof?;37954735]you'll have to explain that one, sorry, I'm not sure what you mean[/QUOTE] Mental conditions. I can't go out into public for very long at all.
[QUOTE=Maloof?;37954708]I think you'll find that the genitals are often the cleanest parts of the human body, given that we tend to wash them more thoroughly due to that perception that they are inherently filthy[/QUOTE] So rub your fucking hands all over them. Just because something is lacking in germs doesn't mean that it's illogical to not want to touch it directly or indirectly. You can't just break things like this down into the most logical, rational components.
[QUOTE=U.S.S.R;37954752]Mental conditions. I can't go out into public for very long at all.[/QUOTE] I'm genuinely sorry to hear that; I'm quite introverted and I start to get a bit tense if I can't be alone for a bit to recharge
[QUOTE=Primigenes;37946175]Kissing isn't the same as Public Nudity Holding hands isn't the same as Public Nudity (What are you even getting at here.) Showing ones face blah blah third world country shit isn't the same as Public Nudity. If your going to spring stupid shit like that when all you have to say is that "Being icky" isn't the reason to outlaw something than I am going to say that we should legalize sex in public. And it should be illegal because it goes against all sorts of common sense and its visually fucking disgusting to some people. An anti Obama sticker is so minuscule.. Why did you even bring it up? There are reasons we wear fucking clothing. The main one being to protect us from the environment. And then we have the fact that its fucking visually unappealing. The first thing I think of when I hear nudist are genitals hanging, tits sagging, people who make situations uncomfortable for certain members of the populous. This is why we have places for people who want to walk around Nude. It being icky is the only argument you could ever have. Stop trying to compare it to "PDA" shit to rule it out. I think I deserve the right to not see you naked Who gives a fuck about sex or what you consider "Freedom of expression" at the time This is the point where we lose all decency. Its rude its vulgar and its fucking backwards Right now I'm imagining some nude male/female who had diarrhea earlier today sitting next to me on a train. That shit is disgusting. You're trying to be open minded but you just look stupid. How the fuck are you going to argue for something that is almost entirely a visual matter. You may as well allow fucking public masturbation or sex as long as nothing gets on you. Especially if they manage to clean up they're fluids. Matter of fact whats the different between a flasher and a nudist? And you can't legalize nudity and ban erections[/QUOTE] is it illegal to be repulsive? there's some disgusting people out there but they can still walk about just fine. i don't particularly enjoy gazing at massively obese people with busted up faces and stains on their clothing but i'm not going to try and get them arrested for it.
[QUOTE=Elecbullet;37954762]So rub your fucking hands all over them. Just because something is lacking in germs doesn't mean that it's illogical to not want to touch it directly or indirectly. You can't just break things like this down into the most logical, rational components.[/QUOTE] I'm not saying walk up to a nudist and grab his wang because that's alright I'm saying that the idea that you're going to die if you touch something that somebody's buttock bumped into accidentally is silly and likely a result of the contemporary hand-sanitiser-culture that we've got going on. It's also about respecting one's genitals for sexual and personal reasons; which is why you wouldn't walk along grabbing bollocks if you were in a nudist area. Why would you not break things like this down into logical and rational components?
[QUOTE=U.S.S.R;37954752]Mental conditions. I can't go out into public for very long at all.[/QUOTE] There are things you do not like that you will [b]have[/b] to accept outside. The law is not a blanket to protect you from the harsh parts of reality. It's not a tool to make the world bend to your whim. That's not what you want to hear, but that is the truth. [QUOTE=Elecbullet;37954762]Just because something is lacking in germs doesn't mean that it's illogical to not want to touch it directly or indirectly. You can't just break things like this down into the most logical, rational components.[/QUOTE] I really have no idea where you're getting this thought that he wants people to touch his genitals.
[QUOTE=Paramud;37954809]I really have no idea where you're getting this thought that he wants people to touch his genitals.[/QUOTE] I really have no idea where you're getting this thought that I have this thought that he wants people to touch his genitals. I actually do know but I didn't mean that in the least. My point is that some repulsions and taboos in society cannot be defended scientifically and yet that is not a reason to oppose the taboos.
[QUOTE=Maloof?;37954767]I'm genuinely sorry to hear that; I'm quite introverted and I start to get a bit tense if I can't be alone for a bit to recharge[/QUOTE] Thanks. Anyway, if nudity should be allowed at all, it should only be sanctioned in small towns or villages that are not near metropolitan areas instead of a major travel stop like San Francisco. A compromise works and more conservative communities could keep their clothing laws.
[QUOTE=Maloof?;37954799]I'm saying that the idea that you're going to die if you touch something that somebody's buttock bumped into accidentally is silly[/QUOTE] Fun fact, [url=http://www.foodandwine.com/articles/fyi-your-kitchen-is-probably-dirtier-than-a-toilet-seat]a toilet seat is usually cleaner than a cutting board.[/url] I'm pretty sure that if something you regularly piss, shit, and occasionally vomit into is cleaner than what you prepare food on, you're probably alright if a naked person sat the chair you're using an hour before you did.
[QUOTE=Paramud;37954852]Fun fact, [url=http://www.foodandwine.com/articles/fyi-your-kitchen-is-probably-dirtier-than-a-toilet-seat]a toilet seat is usually cleaner than a cutting board.[/url] I'm pretty sure that if something you regularly piss, shit, and occasionally vomit into is cleaner than what you cook food on, you're probably alright if a naked person sat the chair you're using an hour before you did.[/QUOTE] That's because places like public bathrooms are cleaned more than regularly. You wouldn't expect someone to clean a chair twice a day.
[QUOTE=U.S.S.R;37954867]That's because places like public bathrooms are cleaned more than regularly. You wouldn't expect someone to clean a chair twice a day.[/QUOTE] No, but I do expect everyone to clean their cutting boards before they use them.
[QUOTE=Paramud;37954852]Fun fact, [url=http://www.foodandwine.com/articles/fyi-your-kitchen-is-probably-dirtier-than-a-toilet-seat]a toilet seat is usually cleaner than a cutting board.[/url] I'm pretty sure that if something you regularly piss, shit, and occasionally vomit into is cleaner than what you prepare food on, you're probably alright if a naked person sat the chair you're using an hour before you did.[/QUOTE] This goes back to the illusion of sanitation defining what is acceptable.
[QUOTE=Kopimi;37954788]is it illegal to be repulsive? there's some disgusting people out there but they can still walk about just fine. i don't particularly enjoy gazing at massively obese people with busted up faces and stains on their clothing but i'm not going to try and get them arrested for it.[/QUOTE] 1. I don't think they should be arrested. 2. Stains, Obesity and having a messed up face isn't the equivalent to being nude in public. 3. I made an earlier statement stating that I don't think this can really be made illegal (well on the basis of it being disgusting)
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