• Tropes Vs. Women In Video Games Vs. The Internet
    2,627 replies, posted
[QUOTE=AJisAwesome15;36316423][B]Tomb Raider? Bayonetta?[/B] Half Life (Alyx)? Portal? There are a lot of girls in video games that do shit [B]and aren't there to look appealing[/B] or whatever. I mean, look at alyx and chell, they're ugly as fuck and they do stuff. I just don't get this, really.[/QUOTE]Are you serious?
[QUOTE=Lankist;36316726]Yes that's why they referred to her as gendered slurs. "LALALA THERE IS NO PROBLEM LALALA"[/QUOTE] People don't like her writing, therefore they insult her. She is female, so they use female insults. There's really nothing more to it. People don't like Casey Hudson either, and that doesn't stop people from insulting him with similar veracity. The only reason why he doesn't make a big deal out of it is because he can't scapegoat it on chauvanism.
[QUOTE=Lankist;36316726]Yes that's why they referred to her as gendered slurs. "LALALA THERE IS NO PROBLEM LALALA"[/QUOTE] That could be singled out as people just using whatever they can to insult her. Haha, Didn't think a ninja would lurk in a debate.
[QUOTE=BloodFox1222;36316628][img]http://meta.filesmelt.com/downloader.php?file=gm_policelineup0008.png[/img] Feel free to judge for yourself, IMO she is but its not over the top.[/QUOTE] I wouldn't call that sexualized. I mean, she was definitely made more attractive but just because she doesn't look like an ape anymore it doesn't mean it's for sex appeal. I mean, you barely ever see her in game anyway. Besides, she got many hours of beauty sleep between the games
[QUOTE=Lankist;36316729]Bayonetta.[/QUOTE]Comes from japan, does not count.
[QUOTE=Lankist;36316650]The point is that sex appeal should not be a universal factor. You're implying that those characters were designed specifically to subvert sex appeal, which is [I]still[/I] a problem. They weren't. Alyx and (Portal 1) Chell were designed with sex appeal in the [I]far[/I] background, if at all. They stand on [I]human[/I] merits as characters, and not appearances. That you recognize their sexuality first and foremost is a problem. That [I]is[/I] objectification. You are recognizing them as objects of (un)lust before you even begin to think about them as human characters.[/QUOTE] I did that because that's what this topic was about. I was pointing out sex appeal (and lack thereof) first to show that a lot of female characters in video games (now I realize Lara Croft and Bayonetta were bad examples) are created without sex appeal in mind. I dunno, I guess I should have worded it better. I honestly, honestly didn't know people played tomb raider or bayonetta just because they look attractive
[QUOTE=Jackald;36316753]People don't like her writing, therefore they insult her. [B]She is female, so they use female insults. There's really nothing more to it.[/B][/QUOTE] So as long as you can come up with some flimsy rationale, that makes it okay to call women whore bitch slut cunts? That [I]isn't[/I] misogyny?
[QUOTE=TheJoey;36316725]what guy fucking plays gears of war because dom is badass? what guy plays any video game because the female is sexy? last time i heard anyone doing that was when me and my friends were 12 (children).[/QUOTE] Why do game developers and media publishers (magazines, etc) constantly portray extremely distorted images of women if it doesn't make them any money? Hint: (It does)
[QUOTE=Eric95;36316761] you barely ever see her in game anyway.[/QUOTE] gotta get these two portals in the corner so i can see my character and fap innfff innff
I'm just saying you don't need 5 hours of documentary to say "Male teenagers are attracted to sexy ladies and lots of male teenagers play video games, therefore sexy ladies are in video games."
[QUOTE=AJisAwesome15;36316423]Tomb Raider? [B]Bayonetta[/B]? Half Life (Alyx)? Portal? There are a lot of girls in video games that do shit and aren't there to look appealing or whatever. I mean, look at alyx and chell, they're ugly as fuck and they do stuff. I just don't get this, really.[/QUOTE] Please describe the personality of Bayonetta. Oh wait, you can't, she has none (apart from "acting sexy")
[QUOTE=The golden;36316768]Why do game developers and media publishers (magazines, etc) constantly portray extremely distorted images of women if it doesn't make them any money? Hint: (It does)[/QUOTE] wait and distorted images of men don't ...? can we please at least agree that characters just need to be better written in general?
[QUOTE=AceOfDivine;36316764]Comes from japan, does not count.[/QUOTE] Sold in North America. Does count. You do know what localization is, right?
[QUOTE=Jackald;36316776]I'm just saying you don't need 5 hours of documentary to say "Male teenagers are attracted to sexy ladies and lots of male teenagers play video games, therefore sexy ladies are in video games."[/QUOTE] See, that's a problem. More women play video games than men now with the rise of casual and mobile games, and yet the industry still panders to adolescent male fantasy at the expense of women.
[QUOTE=Lankist;36316721]Jennifer Hepler. You can say that wasn't an issue of gender all you god damn want, but the misogynistic "get back to the kitchen, cunt" vitriol does not lie. Don't fucking rationalize sexist bullshit.[/QUOTE] People dislike her because she's a bad writer, and people would have disliked her writing even if she was a man.
[QUOTE=Lankist;36316766]So as long as you can come up with some flimsy rationale, that makes it okay to call women whore bitch slut cunts? [/QUOTE] That's unrelated. Gender based insults go both ways and have nothing to do with sexism in games or sexism. If having gender based insults is sexism, so is having words "her" and "he". From now on we refer to everyone as "it".
[QUOTE=Jackald;36316776]I'm just saying you don't need 5 hours of documentary to say "Male teenagers are attracted to sexy ladies and lots of male teenagers play video games, therefore sexy ladies are in video games."[/QUOTE] You couldn't miss the point harder even if that was your intention.
[QUOTE=TheJoey;36316786]wait and distorted images of men don't ...? can we please at least agree that characters just need to be better written in general?[/QUOTE] Distorted images of men sell to [I]men[/I]. They're designed by [I]men[/I] for [I]men.[/I] Women didn't do anything wrong in this equation, they didn't objectify anyone. If anything, men are objectifying themselves, which is your own goddamn problem.
I'm not denying that there is a gender imbalance in video games, but we don't need to give $110,443 to a woman to make a 5 hour documentary re-iterating that: [media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9mZgTgublaY&feature=g-all-f[/media]
[QUOTE=AceOfDivine;36316806]That's unrelated. Gender based insults go both ways and have nothing to do with sexism in games or sexism. If having gender based insults is sexism, so is having words "her" and "he". From now on we refer to everyone as "it".[/QUOTE] uhhhhhhh so you're saying calling women whores isnt sexist
[QUOTE=Eric95;36316796]People dislike her because she's a bad writer, and people would have disliked her writing even if she was a man.[/QUOTE]Tbh people only started attacking her when it was revealed she doesn't enjoy playing videogames. She is not the only writer who worked on the Dragon Age series.
[QUOTE=TheJoey;36316786]wait and distorted images of men don't ...? [/QUOTE] Yes they do that too. But instead of making them sex appeal they make them an appeal to a man's ego.
While I do find this attitude towards the woman disgusting, and I think it is bad that the people have reacted in such a way. I can't shake this feeling that it got majority of funding because of men saying "I DON'T WANT TO BE SEXIST SO I MUST FUND" I didn't fund because she's a bad video maker, and I highly suggest all those who consider backing to perhaps checking out her other videos on youtube. If someone who wasn't going to show obvious bias was to make a documentary video series on this I would applaud it, and would back it. But alas tis not the case.
[QUOTE=Lankist;36316704]That wasn't my question. My question was: "How many fucking women do you know that play Gears of War because Dom is so sexy it hurts?" It's about design, not what happens once it's in the wild.[/QUOTE] I don't know about you, but I don't anyone who plays a game because a character in is sexually appealing, and that applies to men and women I know as well as men and women in games. Generally the sex appeal, at least for me and for people I know, is just an aside thing. Like for example, I love the Tomb Raider games (well, up to TR 4 really; they kinda went downhill after that in my opinion). Is Lara Croft a sex symbol? No fucking doubt about it. Is that why I play the games, though? No, I play the games because they're fun shooters with entertaining stories. Again, at least for me and the people I know, the sex of characters isn't really important. The characters could be cardboard boxes with lips and googly eyes for all I care - I play for gameplay and story. Obviously I don't speak for all men out there, and the small sample of people I know is not representative of the whole. As far as I know, though - and I won't pretend this means anything - there aren't many men who play games solely for the sex appeal. And there's an obvious exception for sex games implied in that statement, before anyone brings those up.
[QUOTE=Lankist;36316794]See, that's a problem. More women play video games than men now with the rise of casual and mobile games, and yet the industry still panders to adolescent male fantasy at the expense of women.[/QUOTE] That's because those games aren't casual or mobile games. They're bigger games which usually appeal to a more male demographic. "At the expense of women"? It's not like you're wasting women here
[QUOTE=Jackald;36316816]I'm not denying that there is a gender imbalance in video games, but we don't need to give $110,443 to a woman to make a 5 hour documentary re-iterating that: [media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9mZgTgublaY&feature=g-all-f[/media][/QUOTE] then don't donate. Clearly a lot of people want to see this. What the fuck is your problem with that? People can only give a shit about the issues you give a shit about?
[QUOTE=Eric95;36316761]I wouldn't call that sexualized. I mean, she was definitely made more attractive but [b]just because she doesn't look like an ape anymore[/b] it doesn't mean it's for sex appeal. I mean, you barely ever see her in game anyway. Besides, she got many hours of beauty sleep between the games[/QUOTE] Last time I checked not wearing makeup and the absence of a tank top putting your tits on display =/= looking like an ape, unless you were specifically referring to the awkward arm positioning.. Remind me why it's a requirement that every woman needs to look like a model? :v:
[QUOTE=The golden;36316787]Sold in North America. Does count. You do know what localization is, right?[/QUOTE] Localization is only supposed to translate. This is not Germany where all "wrong" things get censored.
[QUOTE=Lankist;36316794]See, that's a problem. More women play video games than men now with the rise of casual and mobile games, and yet the industry still panders to adolescent male fantasy at the expense of women.[/QUOTE] not in the games men play vs the games women play (statistically). and there you go, you just basically said women play casual games. so right there you just thought like a businessman for that split second of typing that sentence. and yet you can't really understand when publishers want developers to create sexy females and beefy males (gay) to sell their games? this is seriously advertising 101, which is the core of this "problem" of objectifying human beings of both gender. not video games. not movies. not books. not fiction. im not ignoring the problem im just pointing you towards the source of the problem.
[QUOTE=Lankist;36316794]See, that's a problem. More women play video games than men now with the rise of casual and mobile games, and yet the industry still panders to adolescent male fantasy at the expense of women.[/QUOTE] So as soon as it stops being profitable to put sexy women in games, developers will stop. This will happen fairly soon because, as you say, the gender imbalance is shifting. In which case why do we need a 5 hour documentary?
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