• Libyan 'War' Megathread - Any news pertaining to surgical strikes is to be posted HERE
    1,053 replies, posted
[QUOTE=Brage Nyman;28728092]Althou i'm a sick fuck that actually enjoy war, i suddenly started to use my tiny brain. Is really bombing the right thing to do? War to liberate the people? Sure, but i bet that the hate on gadaffi and his goons is pretty overrated. War will result in refugees, pain and probably more terrorism in the end. Imagine so much food and blankets a single tomahawk missile would give.[/QUOTE] Blankets and food are useless if people are going to be attacked by their government.
I love the effect this crisis has had on British politics. The parties were at each other's fucking throats over EVERYTHING and it was really pissing me off, but over this they're united.
[QUOTE=Jsm;28728217]Blankets and food are useless if people are going to be attacked by their government.[/QUOTE] Blankets and food are also useless when the people is being attacked by other governments. I'm putting mine tinfoil hat on and i'll say there is more then liberating behind this.
Have to say one thing though, all this didn't happen because we feel sorry for the rebels and the population. It could have been 10 times worse and even then we wouldn't have intervened unless we had something to gain. I'm not complaining though, we gain from it, the Lybian people gain from it. Everyone is happy. Well except Gadaffi, but that's ok.
[QUOTE=Tac Error;28723510]Something that looks totally wrong to us Westerners may not be to the Libyans. We in the West believe that each and every individual is of inestimable value which extends into our conduct of military operations, but should we judge how other cultures fight wars by our "superior" standards alone? Looks like Gaddafi hasn't learned the important lessons of avoiding targeting by precision weapons. Another feckless adversary indeed.[/QUOTE] From a military standpoint, everything has a value. Pilots are extremely expensive both in terms of money and time to train. Aircraft are, obviously, extremely expensive and not easily replaced even if you have the money. It isn't western values that I'm using here. It is simple math. Suicide runs with fighter aircraft don't come down in your favor. Especially when you kill the tyrant's brother. That isn't going to stop the conflict, but it will make him more determined to kill as many of the rebels as possible before he is removed from power. [editline]21st March 2011[/editline] [QUOTE=TheTalon;28727368]Pretty awesome, our B-2's took off from the heart of America, flew all the way to Libya, Dropped 45x2,000lb JDAM's on what I guess was 45 different targets, then flew back all the way to Missouri. Non Stop.[/QUOTE] Strategic bombers really live up to their name. Most aircraft deal with a few targets at most. Strategic bombers operate on a strategic scale. It isn't "blow up that tank" it is "blow up that armored division". Gotta love 'em.
[QUOTE=GunFox;28728766]From a military standpoint, everything has a value. Pilots are extremely expensive both in terms of money and time to train. Aircraft are, obviously, extremely expensive and not easily replaced even if you have the money. It isn't western values that I'm using here. It is simple math. Suicide runs with fighter aircraft don't come down in your favor. Especially when you kill the tyrant's brother. That isn't going to stop the conflict, but it will make him more determined to kill as many of the rebels as possible before he is removed from power.[/quote] Once again, you are still judging his actions from our Western perspective. To take an example, you know what the US Army in the 1980s believed what kind of commander the Soviet "scientific view of war" breeded? Without typing out an entire lecture, rigid and unflexible officers (a generally unfavorable view) unsuited for the modern battlefield when in reality it was very much the opposite. It was from that inaccurate judgement that AirLand Battle was formed on (read FM 100-5, 1986 edition). Even though it's now outdated, I can't see it being decisively effective against Soviet doctrine in the late '80s. Suicide runs with combat aircraft are indeed unorthodox, but it's up to you if you want to dismiss anything that doesn't look right to you as "absolutely stupid". [quote][editline]21st March 2011[/editline] Strategic bombers really live up to their name. Most aircraft deal with a few targets at most. Strategic bombers operate on a strategic scale. It isn't "blow up that tank" it is "blow up that armored division". Gotta love 'em.[/QUOTE] ...as long as said armored division is right out in the open. Iraq loved to do that back in 1991. Giulio Douhet's theories are amusing. Isn't it good that most of America's state adversaries are dumb enough not to think of the many counters out there?
Just a note for those who visited the article. I rebutted a lot of the claims there :v: You know you're wrong when [I]I[/I] can refute your claims.
Got to love the people trying to protest this. This is what it must've been like listening to the isolationist durring WWII :downs: [QUOTE=Brage Nyman;28729378]I agree this war is fucking stupid. We got nothing to do with it and crime against the civilians are overrated. It feels like a war all about political favors and probably commodity, sure Gadaffi is a fucking moron but this is absolutely the wrong thing to do.[/QUOTE] [img]http://fc.nbsc.org/~swurster/PICTURES/2bseusswolf.jpg[/img] Replace America first with Everyone else first.
Quite frankly, the UN should do more intervention in such cases. The Rwandan genocide, for example, should not have been allowed to happen. Nor what recently occurred in the Ivory Coast. UN intervention in many African crises has been toothless. That needs to change. For the moment, it's good that at least one case is getting the treatment it needs.
[QUOTE=Sgt Doom;28730479]Quite frankly, the UN should do more intervention in such cases. The Rwandan genocide, for example, should not have been allowed to happen. Nor what recently occurred in the Ivory Coast. UN intervention in many African crises has been toothless. That needs to change. For the moment, it's good that at least one case is getting the treatment it needs.[/QUOTE] Don't forget Darfur. Ugh. A shameful stain on humanity.
[QUOTE=MrEndangered;28730608]Don't forget Darfur. Ugh. A shameful stain on humanity.[/QUOTE]Absolutely. Regardless of whether or not the current Libyan intervention has suspicious motives (I highly doubt it's for oil because as mentioned before, Western oil companies already had access to Libyan oil before the crisis), at least something is being done. We just need to start helping more countries suffering from such atrocities.
[QUOTE=Sgt Doom;28730704]Absolutely. Regardless of whether or not the current Libyan intervention has suspicious motives (I highly doubt it's for oil because as mentioned before, Western oil companies already had access to Libyan oil before the crisis), at least something is being done. We just need to start helping more countries suffering from such atrocities.[/QUOTE] And really the idea that we're invading for Oil holds even less water because the Oil companies are saying that there will be little to no exports from Libya for six Months. so from that standpoint we just made it [I]worse.[/I] And also agree with everything else you said, the UN was founded to put an end to this kind of shit, not for diplomats to yell at each other and write angry letters while people die.
Gaddafi sends someone to bomb British plane, Britain sends British planes to bomb Gaddafi. It's so good to finally get revenge for Lockerbie.
[QUOTE=David29;28730990]Gaddafi sends someone to bomb British plane, Britain sends British planes to bomb Gaddafi. It's so good to finally get revenge for Lockerbie.[/QUOTE] Yeah too bad your government helped free the bomber.
[QUOTE=David29;28730990]Gaddafi sends someone to bomb British plane, Britain sends British planes to bomb Gaddafi. It's so good to finally get revenge for Lockerbie.[/QUOTE] I also laughed when he ranted about his country being the victim of terrorism. "Haha, no Gaddafi, you supported terrorism, you don't get to play that card."
[QUOTE=goon165;28730872]And really the idea that we're invading for Oil holds even less water because the Oil companies are saying that there will be [B]little to no exports from Libya for six Months[/B]. so from that standpoint we just made it [I]worse.[/I][/QUOTE] So.. you're saying that supply will go down, right? With same amount of demand? So, in other words, oil companies will be able to charge more? Yeah they must be gutted.
[QUOTE=Contag;28731023]Yeah too bad your government helped free the bomber.[/QUOTE] Yeah, but that was Gordon Brown. And Gordon Brown was an idiot.
[QUOTE=Contag;28731054]So.. you're saying that supply will go down, right? With same amount of demand? So, in other words, oil companies will be able to charge more? Yeah they must be gutted.[/QUOTE] Welp there goes arguing with you.
[QUOTE=David29;28731057]Yeah, but that was Gordon Brown. And Gordon Brown was an idiot.[/QUOTE] Wasn't the Libyan government also helped by non-elected public servants? [editline]22nd March 2011[/editline] [QUOTE=goon165;28731094]Welp there goes arguing with you.[/QUOTE] That's quite the argument.
[QUOTE=David29;28731057]Yeah, but that was Gordon Brown. And Gordon Brown was an idiot.[/QUOTE] It wasn't Gordon Brown, it was the Scottish government.
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[QUOTE=Wiggles;28731136]It wasn't Gordon Brown, it was the Scottish government.[/QUOTE] Ah okay, thanks for clearing that up.
[QUOTE=Contag;28731102]Wasn't the Libyan government also helped by non-elected public servants? [/QUOTE] I don't know. Still, it doesn't matter - the actions of a government should not reflect on the country as a whole. [QUOTE=Wiggles;28731136]It wasn't Gordon Brown, it was the Scottish government.[/QUOTE] Fair do's.
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Anyone who claims that the United States is doing this for the oil is an idiot. We only get about 2% of our sweet crude from Libya.
[QUOTE=ewitwins;28731209]Anyone who claims that the United States is doing this for the oil is an idiot. We only get about 2% of our sweet crude from Libya.[/QUOTE] Yeah, but oil is to the USA what anchovies are to Dr. Zoidberg: [media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ysu_qXpToIo[/media] (Only joking. Love you really, yanks.)
[QUOTE=ewitwins;28731209]Anyone who claims that the United States is doing this for the oil is an idiot. We only get about 2% of our sweet crude from Libya.[/QUOTE] So you're saying the institution of a democratic state with a free market won't increase wealth for the United States and the rest of the world (Edit: especially Libya), and that there won't be increased investment in the country because a crackpot dictator isn't able to seize your investment at a moments notice?
[QUOTE=Rautatie;28727998]As a Finn, I am terribly ashamed that we have no plans whatsoever to take part in this operation D:[/QUOTE] [i]If[/i] NATO asks for support like the rumors say, I find it quite likely that Finland takes action. But only if. Otherwise our lazy country is unlikely to contribute.
[QUOTE=Contag;28731336]So you're saying the institution of a democratic state with a free market won't increase wealth for the United States and the rest of the world (Edit: especially Libya), and that there won't be increased investment in the country because a crackpot dictator isn't able to seize your investment at a moments notice?[/QUOTE]Read his post again. Slowly. Take in every word. Understand his post now? I'll spell it out for you, it's obvious you need the reading comprehension help. His post was specifically countering the idea that this intervention is for oil. Nowhere did he mention anything about free market economy or anything else you rambled on about.
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