• UK is leaving the EU
    2,958 replies, posted
[QUOTE=.Isak.;50581372]A referendum is surprisingly undemocratic. I vote for representatives to represent me because I don't have the time or the money or the ability to be knowledgeable about major issues. I trust that those representatives take the time to become knowledgeable about certain issues. If they're negotiating a trade deal, I expect them to talk to the leading economic minds in what the effects are predicted to be. In a referendum, the representatives are the general public who know fuck-all about the topic in any knowledgeable fashion. This means the entire vote is dictated by media sensation, not by knowledge about the topic. A capable representative will use their time to learn the effects of a decision before they make it - the general public doesn't do that. We elect reps to make decisions for us based on their knowledge. Referendums basically throw that out the window. If you asked the general US population if we should nuke the Middle East, it's totally possible that 50% or more would say yes - that doesn't mean it's a good idea and that judgment should be reserved for the elected people who's [i]literal job is to know how political decisions will affect the country[/i].[/QUOTE] what the fuck is this post a referendum is the most democratic thing you can do besides actually having a nationwide vote that matters (tip referendums can be ignored but the government) republics are what you're describing. while democratic people get less of a say than in a pure democracy. also you're fooling yourself if you think the government officials that vote in republics know anything about what they're voting for on every vote.
[media]https://twitter.com/Jake_Wilde/status/746124477512159232[/media] Carswell attacks Farage publicly yet again (interesting)
Get ready for a UK where UKIP is the major right wing party and Conservatives are now the left.
[QUOTE=Boilrig;50581604]People say this is the beginning of the end of the UK, its the beginning of the end of the EU.[/QUOTE] It really isn't. Unless Germany decided to fuck out of the EU, which it won't be doing any time soon, the EU will be fine. It's a major benefit to most member states - the UK was only loosely attached and didn't even make use of the Euro or Schengen, so it doesn't say that much. A country that uses the Euro and is a member of the Schengen area trying to leave the EU would be much, much, much more difficult than the UK doing so. Very unlikely that other member states will abandon EU benefits for nationalism - they're much more firmly rooted in the EU economically and culturally.
Wales secured the Leave vote.
-snip- was wrong
[QUOTE=Coffee;50581566]Does this mean people will stop saying "brexit"?[/QUOTE] No, even worse. This isn't going to be a footnote in history now, it's going to be a major event in UK history, and future generations will be learning about and forced to discuss Brexit and the rammifications of it in classes. You will hear about this in some capacity for the rest of your life now.
[QUOTE=Emperor Scorpious II;50581626]Well that's a surprise. So what does this mean for the SNP? Could they wrangle another independence referendum in the next few years due to this?[/QUOTE] Every time I see your avatar I keep thinking it is me. You're welcome btw.
[QUOTE=carcarcargo;50581637]No I think it's you who doesn't know what they're talking about, a republic is just a state with a president.[/QUOTE] A republic is a country whose government is run by representatives of the people. It's that simple.
[QUOTE=carcarcargo;50581236]We're crashing the economy with no survivors, the pound is at its lowest in 30 years as the markets freak the fuck out[/QUOTE] I'm amazed, the Pound has dropped 10% in only 6 hours.
"This is the largest event in European politics since the fall of the Berlin wall" damn
[QUOTE=thrawn2787;50581628]what the fuck is this post a referendum is the most democratic thing you can do besides actually having a nationwide vote that matters (tip referendums can be ignored but the government) republics are what you're describing. while democratic people get less of a say than in a pure democracy. also you're fooling yourself if you think the government officials that vote in republics know anything about what they're voting for on every vote.[/QUOTE] In what world do politicians know less about their policies than the common man? Also, pure democracy (which a referendum is) is not a good thing. [editline]24th June 2016[/editline] So now that GB is separate from the EU, do you guys start calling yourselves Atlantic Islanders instead of Europeans now or what
[QUOTE=YouWithTheFace.;50581576]pour one out for the homies in Gibraltar, for they are fucked[/QUOTE] Spain's wet dream. They got the Brits fucked now. No way they'll make a treaty with the UK for free movement to and from Gibraltar.
Can someone explain why the Non-England parts of the UK have unanimously voted for Remain?
[QUOTE=thrawn2787;50581628]what the fuck is this post a referendum is the most democratic thing you can do besides actually having a nationwide vote that matters (tip referendums can be ignored but the government) republics are what you're describing. while democratic people get less of a say than in a pure democracy. also you're fooling yourself if you think the government officials that vote in republics know anything about what they're voting for on every vote.[/QUOTE] I have far more trust in a capable elected representative to make an educated decision on an issue than I do for the general public. You're right in that a referendum is democratic - I shouldn't have said it wasn't. Does the fact that it is democratic make the result of that referendum the best possible thing for the country? Fuck no - it's based on uneducated public opinion and media campaigns, not expert opinion and discussion of the actual issues. Representatives meet with experts to advise them on issues. Well, capable ones do. The average voter doesn't bother to even look up what the experts think. Bad representatives who ignore experts are as bad as the general public. I'm an American, I'm familiar with bad reps. Yes, a referendum is democratic, sure. It being democratic doesn't mean it's the smartest and most beneficial decision for the country.
Mother of God. Is this actually happening?
"All Hail the Empire" - Commonwealth
Glad to know that I wasn't wrong about leave winning.
[QUOTE=laserpanda;50581663]Can someone explain why the Non-England parts of the UK have unanimously voted for Remain?[/QUOTE] But they haven't? Only in Scotland has it been unanimous. Leave won in Wales and there were a few constituencies in Northern Ireland that voted leave as well.
[img]https://pbs.twimg.com/media/ClsArscWAAAMKCe.jpg[/img]
[QUOTE=laserpanda;50581663]Can someone explain why the Non-England parts of the UK have unanimously voted for Remain?[/QUOTE] Scotland is heavily pro-EU, the Scottish Independence movement was built heavily on being apart of the EU by itself and to avoid shit like this. Wouldn't be surprise if a resurgence to do another independence vote sparks up Northern Ireland is a tossbag between pro eu and anti eu, remember we got the Ulsters and the Republicans in there and as you know, republicans = pro eu pro ireland, ulsters = anti ireland anti eu (or pro in some respects). This might cause the republicans to rise up and declare they want reintegration within Ireland Wales is pro british so nothing to say there
Gold is leaping up in value right now
[media]https://twitter.com/paddyashdown/status/746189332885581826[/media]
So... what happens to Cameron?
[QUOTE=Emperor Scorpious II;50581650]In what world do politicians know less about their policies than the common man? [/quote] The real one I'm not saying every vote, but quite a number many politicians probably just don't give a shit. They're too busy being courted by lobbyists or they just go with what God tells them to do or some other nonsense. [quote] So now that GB is separate from the EU, do you guys start calling yourselves Atlantic Islanders instead of Europeans now or what[/QUOTE] The same thing they've always called themselves British Also leaving the EU isn't leaving the Europe. One is an "economic union" that severely restricts sovereignty as time goes on (except where it matters, ie monetary policy lolgreece) and the other is an arbitrary geographic definition. The British Isles didn't up and move 2000 miles into the Atlantic.
[QUOTE=FetusFondler;50581682]Gold is leaping up in value right now[/QUOTE] That makes sense, the Euro and pound are being dumped for gold and USD.
[QUOTE=laserpanda;50581663]Can someone explain why the Non-England parts of the UK have unanimously voted for Remain?[/QUOTE] Scotland's always wanted to stay as part of the EU, Northern Ireland is tied very closely with its Southern cousin which is in the EU, Gibraltar should be damn obvious as its basically NEEDED to ensure their ability of free movement between themselves and Spain, we leave I can most certainly say Spain is going to be a right bitch about the whole free movement thing, they despise us still owning Gibraltar even though they fucking well gave it to us. As for the islands, can't really say much.
[QUOTE=GrizzlyBear;50581687]So... what happens to Cameron?[/QUOTE] remains prime minister unless he feels he can no longer lead the country and resigns from his post as head of the conservatives
[QUOTE=fruxodaily;50581692]remains prime minister unless he feels he can no longer lead the country and resigns from his post as head of the conservatives[/QUOTE] Or gets ousted by the 1922 committee.
[QUOTE=thrawn2787;50581688]The real one I'm not saying every vote, but quite a number many politicians probably just don't give a shit. They're too busy being courted by lobbyists or they just go with what God tells them to do or some other nonsense.[/QUOTE] You realise they go with "what god tells them" because thats what their moronic voters think don't you? Now imagine if you let those moronic voters actually make decisions. The average person doesn't have the time in their life to actually thoroughly study these sorts of issues and make terrible decisions, like this one for instance.
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