• Sex-changing treatment for kids on the rise
    332 replies, posted
[QUOTE=dass;34784798]Soon enough people on dates will talk about how they used to be a boy/girl not so long ago.[/QUOTE] Were you saying that like it was a bad thing?
[QUOTE=Contag;34784902]Were you saying that like it was a bad thing?[/QUOTE] I think he's saying that one day it will be socially acceptable enough that people won't feel too ashamed to mention it to anyone.
[QUOTE=Boxbot219;34784927]I think he's saying that one day it will be socially acceptable enough that people won't feel too ashamed to mention it to anyone.[/QUOTE] Ah okay, it's a bit hard to tell. Kind of like RE: homo/whateversexual marriage "Soon enough people will be marrying cats and rats and racks of sacks"
[QUOTE=Boxbot219;34784927]I think he's saying that one day it will be socially acceptable enough that people won't feel too ashamed to mention it to anyone.[/QUOTE] The amount of awkward moments of silence that would create is unimaginable.
[QUOTE=yawmwen;34783055]I believe that the choice to change sex should be legally made no sooner than 18 years old. This includes puberty blocking. A young child is not someone who has the mental capability to make these kinds of choices for themselves.[/QUOTE] Haha, no. There's no way I'm waiting until I'm 18 to get my fucking hormones. [editline]20th February 2012[/editline] [QUOTE=Zeemlapje;34784437]sex change should never be the first option. i have a family member whos going trough with his/her sex change, but i completely lost my respect for his/her decision as soon as i heard he/she refused to have a 1 on 1 talk about sex change with a person who i know and has gone trough exactly the same thing and now looks back on it wondering WHY she made that decision. because the hormonal therapy & all just messed up her body, she has lots of food intolerances and has a strict diet because of this. thats just the tip ofthe iceberg Also, the said family member still has the behaviour of a teenage girl even though he/she is the same age as me, no job no further education. [b]Restoring a broken mind is easier than restoring a broken body, thats why sex change should always be the last resort.[/b][/QUOTE] It has been proven that you cannot fix GID through therapy and that the only way to correct it is through transitioning. Also FYI female brains don't fit in male bodies.
At least they'll be out of the gene pool should they cut their dicks/carve pussy out. Hopefully there are more men cutting their dicks off though, more women for the rest of us. [highlight](User was banned for this post ("Trolling. Or did you really think this was appropiate/relevant/tactful" - Dragon))[/highlight]
[QUOTE=UseLets;34783280]I think if you're born a certain gender then you should stick to it so you have a functional reproductive organ. Afterall that is the reason you are alive, to reproduce and advance the human race. If you can't reproduce then you're killing our species off.[/QUOTE] Get the fuck out please. Thank you. [editline]20th February 2012[/editline] [QUOTE=hegrec;34785276]At least they'll be out of the gene pool should they cut their dicks/carve pussy out. Hopefully there are more men cutting their dicks off though, more women for the rest of us.[/QUOTE] Oh look. Someone who only cares about sex.
[QUOTE=HorizoN;34785296] Oh look. Someone who only cares about sex.[/QUOTE] He's just a troll. I wouldn't even bother responding to him.
[QUOTE=Boxbot219;34785318]He's just a troll. I wouldn't even bother responding to him.[/QUOTE] Yeah I figured as much. Report and move on. [editline]20th February 2012[/editline] It's really irritating to look at all of these stupid opinions on whether or not I should be able to live the life that would be best for me. Heh. People telling me I should suffer until I'm 18 or that I should suffer through depression for life.
[QUOTE=yawmwen;34783055]I believe that the choice to change sex should be legally made no sooner than 18 years old. This includes puberty blocking. A young child is not someone who has the mental capability to make these kinds of choices for themselves.[/QUOTE] Needs to be over the age of 23. That is when the human brain is fully developed.
[QUOTE=jordguitar;34785358]Needs to be over the age of 23. That is when the human brain is fully developed.[/QUOTE] Thank you for saying that people like me should have to suffer for a huge chunk of their lives.
I think if the child has met with a therapist then there is no reason not to allow hormone treatment. These families are not just running around uninformed; they seem to have went out of there way to do what is best for the child. If treatment/surgery can make the child happier and prevent depression later in life why would you deny them it?
[QUOTE=UseLets;34783398]Its contributing if this is on the rise though. You cannot deny this.[/QUOTE] It feels like it's on the rise because people are becoming more open about it, not because people suddenly got an urge to change sexes, same with homosexuality, it feels like it's on the rise but it's not, it's just that people feel safe coming out of the closet nowadays compared to just a couple decades ago.
[QUOTE=Electrocuter;34785499]It feels like it's on the rise because people are becoming more open about it, not because people suddenly got an urge to change sexes, same with homosexuality, it feels like it's on the rise but it's not, it's just that people feel safe coming out of the closet nowadays compared to just a couple decades ago.[/QUOTE] ^This Did you know that Abraham Lincoln slept with men, there is a good chance that one of our most famous and respected presidents was gay/bisexual. But nobody ever talks/talked about it. [media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1RvoH_nJUDk[/media]
[QUOTE=SuperDuperScoot;34783345]Judging on how you feel on TGism, you dislike gays for that very reason as well, as they aren't reproducing. But that's just an assumption. The world needs less people anyways, with a population of nearly 7 billion, a form of friendly population control sounds nice right about now. [B]Less people, less demand, less resource consumption, more money all around.[/B][/QUOTE] Bolded part is wrong. Our entire economic system is based on growth. It is absolutely retarded but that's the way it is, and if we start dropping our population without taking the appropriate economical steps first, our economies will crash and burn in ways you could never imagine. Just thought I'd point that out. For the record, I am not an opponent of gays and I don't even support the modern economical system. I do have some reservations about sex-changes due to the fact that our studies on it are still fairly new and quite a few people who undergo the change commit suicide later anyway. I am not morally against them or anything, just think we should know more about what we're doing because clearly it's not solving the problem for everyone.
Oh great one of these threads again sigh Gender Identity devolps in the womb, and from that point its concrete. It cant, and wont be changed. A child will know what their Gender Identity is honestly from an extremely young age. (Or atleast, in most cases/as far as we know) If you're going to say that a child should wait to start any kind of hormonal treatments until their 18, you're telling them to go through one of the most confusing times in their life and most depressing, then tell them to experience the puberty of the sex they were "born as" which is painful, even more confusing, and usually develops into lifelong depression and suicidal tendencies. If you're going to make anybody suffer through something like that because you don't think they've got their mind made up(Which, by the way, you have to go through 6 months to a year of therapy to make absolutely sure you have GID) then I can't take you seriously and i'm going to consider you a horrible person.
[QUOTE=Electrocuter;34785499]It feels like it's on the rise because people are becoming more open about it, not because people suddenly got an urge to change sexes, same with homosexuality, it feels like it's on the rise but it's not, it's just that people feel safe coming out of the closet nowadays compared to just a couple decades ago.[/QUOTE] I think it's also, at least in part, due to people who do it for attention. Remember the fad these past few years with teeange girl that "oh look at me im bisexual i kiss other girls :))))))"? Most of the time, it was just them wanting attention. Now it's "oh look at me im transgendered im special pay attention to me :))))))))". Like someone had said somewhere, if you take a look at the 12-16 year olds on Steam, every third one will be some "transgendered" kid that just wants sex/cyber. And it's disgusting. Yes, it's good that it's becoming more socially acceptable, but people need to learn the difference between "this is what I am" and "I'm experimenting with who I am".
[QUOTE=Skelmech;34785564]Oh great one of these threads again sigh Gender Identity devolps in the womb, and from that point its concrete. It cant, and wont be changed. A child will know what their Gender Identity is honestly from an extremely young age. (Or atleast, in most cases/as far as we know) If you're going to say that a child should wait to start any kind of hormonal treatments until their 18, you're telling them to go through one of the most confusing times in their life and most depressing, then tell them to experience the puberty of the sex they were "born as" which is painful, even more confusing, and usually develops into lifelong depression and suicidal tendencies. If you're going to make anybody suffer through something like that because you don't think they've got their mind made up(Which, by the way, you have to go through 6 months to a year of therapy to make absolutely sure you have GID) then I can't take you seriously and i'm going to consider you a horrible person.[/QUOTE] Thank you. [editline]20th February 2012[/editline] [QUOTE=biodude94566;34785731]I think it's also, at least in part, due to people who do it for attention. Remember the fad these past few years with teeange girl that "oh look at me im bisexual i kiss other girls :))))))"? Most of the time, it was just them wanting attention. Now it's "oh look at me im transgendered im special pay attention to me :))))))))". Like someone had said somewhere, if you take a look at the 12-16 year olds on Steam, every third one will be some "transgendered" kid that just wants sex/cyber. And it's disgusting. Yes, it's good that it's becoming more socially acceptable, but people need to learn the difference between "this is what I am" and "I'm experimenting with who I am".[/QUOTE] Dear god I remember that fad. The current one is most infuriating though.
[QUOTE=chimitos;34783072]How can you decide that you don't want your balls when they haven't had time to drop yet?[/QUOTE] they drop at birth
This... is disturbing
[QUOTE=t-man;34785831]This... is disturbing[/QUOTE] you disturb me.
[QUOTE=yawmwen;34783317]My cousin is transgendered. She started the process towards becoming a woman sexually in her 30s. There need to be hormone treatments, but it doesn't have to happen before puberty.[/QUOTE] the earlier it happens the easier the transition process is. stop talking about "mental capacity" because that's not a scientific term, it doesn't actually mean anything. the ability for someone to recognize themselves as transgendered has nothing to do with a person's ability to make decisions and it has nothing to do with their maturity. [QUOTE=yawmwen;34783371]Can you tell if someone is legit or not before their brain and hormones have become fully matured? A lot of mental issues are solved simply by maturity.[/QUOTE] not transgenderism; that's the point. being transgender is something that is genetic, originating while someone is still in the womb. getting older isn't going to make it go away; that's why prohibiting people from transitioning until an arbitrary date is a terrible, baseless idea. being transgendered isn't a "decision" they've made.
[QUOTE=Boxbot219;34784589][IMG]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v237/Boxbot219/12213037534Q0v1v.jpg[/IMG] CONGRATULATIONS! You have made the dumbest analogy in 2012 on facepunch! You win a box. Seriously though don't post again.[/QUOTE] Teens want to kill themselves often, it's part of adolescence. Yet when a teen says he wants to kill himself for a shit reason, you don't give him cyanide and wish him good luck in the afterlife, because as a teenager or generally as a child you are not able to make such important decisions. A lot of children go through another phase that is gender identity. It's extremely common that they question who they are, and as we all know, teenagers and children in general aren't exactly good at taking the right decision, as most of them are just choosing to do something based on short drives that lead to nowhere and do not represent an actual need. If you are not going to immediately allow a kid to kill himself because it's a bad impulsive decision, you shouldn't allow him to go through a costly, long and extremely heavy treatment because it's also an impulsive decision. [editline]20th February 2012[/editline] [QUOTE=SigmaLambda;34786301]not transgenderism; that's the point. being transgender is something that is genetic, originating while someone is still in the womb. getting older isn't going to make it go away; that's why probiting people from transitioning until an arbitrary date is a terrible, baseless idea. being transgendered isn't a "decision" they've made.[/QUOTE] But a lot of teenagers are going through a phase where they question their gender identity - it's not pathological, it's a normal phase. Making sex-change therapy easier for everyone including young persons is only going to push people going through that phase to change gender as well, which they will regret later because it's not what they actually wanted. You either have to think of each case individually instead of making it easier for everyone regardless, or you have to set the age limit to a point where most people are able of coherent, well-thought decisions. [editline]20th February 2012[/editline] also is it just me or is FP generally just biased over Transgender-related issues ? Every time a thread pops up concerning transgenderism everyone thinks it should be normalized to the max and never questioned regardless of the circumstances. Just like in that one case of an inmate who refused hormone therapy and requested surgery instead, and everyone was just defending the guy even though he tried to kill several guards, used his condition as an argument to get whatever he wanted and was generally batshit insane.
[QUOTE=Ganerumo;34786304]Teens want to kill themselves often, it's part of adolescence. Yet when a teen says he wants to kill himself for a shit reason, you don't give him cyanide and wish him good luck in the afterlife, because as a teenager or generally as a child you are not able to make such important decisions. A lot of children go through another phase that is gender identity. It's extremely common that they question who they are, and as we all know, teenagers and children in general aren't exactly good at taking the right decision, as most of them are just choosing to do something based on short drives that lead to nowhere and do not represent an actual need. If you are not going to immediately allow a kid to kill himself because it's a bad impulsive decision, you shouldn't allow him to go through a costly, long and extremely heavy treatment because it's also an impulsive decision. But a lot of teenagers are going through a phase where they question their gender identity - it's not pathological, it's a normal phase. Making sex-change therapy easier for everyone including young persons is only going to push people going through that phase to change gender as well, which they will regret later because it's not what they actually wanted.[/QUOTE] [b]IT, THROUGH LEGAL REGULATION, HAS BEEN MADE IMPOSSIBLE FOR SOMEONE TO HAVE A SEX CHANGE BASED ON AN IMPULSIVE DECISION[/b] years of therapy and counseling are required for anyone who wants to start transitioning; to weed out the people who are genuinely transgendered from the people for whom it is a passing phase. you do know that, before a person can transition, they need months and months of counseling and therapy before they can even start, right? obviously you fucking don't because if you did we wouldn't be having this discussion.
Who gives a shit. As long as it is 100% definite that they want to go through with then [h2]WHO GIVES A SHIT HOW OTHER PEOPLE WANT TO LIVE THEIR LIFE[/h2]
I've had a neighbour for most of my life. I say I've had him as a neighbour, that isn't strictly true. He occupied the flat next/above my house. I never saw him, heard him make noise or spoke to him, for the 10-12 years I lived next door to him. In fact, the only times I saw him were when we happened to be in the car park at the same time. Even then, he avoided eye contact, looked at the floor and just shuffled into his garden. This garden, by the way, was incredible, you could almost see that he put his soul into it. I never saw him doing anything else, presumably he worked at home, alone. For a while, a girl (probably a daughter from a now ended marriage) visited him, but she stopped. One day, I saw him in a dress. Initially I thought it was a little bit funny, he wasn't feminine at all, but there he was, wearing a marigold yellow dress. Over the next few months, I saw him more than I'd ever done before. When we stumbled across each other, he'd smile, and make eye contact. More importantly, I would see him in public! I think this is a great example of transgenderism. He'd lived a miserable life for well into his 40s, and only when he came to terms with his own mind, did he finally start being active in public. Saying you can avoid your gender is like saying you can avoid your sexuality. Sure, I can stop masturbating to and having sex with women, and instead do it to men, but that doesn't change that I'm heterosexual.
[QUOTE=Ganerumo;34786304]Teens want to kill themselves often, it's part of adolescence. Yet when a teen says he wants to kill himself for a shit reason, you don't give him cyanide and wish him good luck in the afterlife, because as a teenager or generally as a child you are not able to make such important decisions. [/QUOTE] Because killing yourself is totally the same in so many ways. This is a horrible argument. [QUOTE=Ganerumo;34786304] [editline]20th February 2012[/editline] also is it just me or is FP generally just biased over Transgender-related issues ? Every time a thread pops up concerning transgenderism everyone thinks it should be normalized to the max and never questioned regardless of the circumstances. Just like in that one case of an inmate who refused hormone therapy and requested surgery instead, and everyone was just defending the guy even though he tried to kill several guards, used his condition as an argument to get whatever he wanted and was generally batshit insane.[/QUOTE] If anything I've noticed that Facepunch are kind of shitty about the whole thing and if anything the majority of 'bias' is in the opposite direction. But yes, that one case does sound a bit dellusional if nothing else.
you ignorant fucking nerds; every single time this discussion comes up there are countless posts in which someone says "it could just be an impulse/a phase/a stupid decision that they'll regret" despite the fact that [b]THE TRANSITIONING PROCESS IN THE UNITED STATES AND MOST EUROPEAN COUNTRIES IS SPECIFICALLY DESIGNED TO PREVENT THOSE EXACT SCENARIOS[/b] and everyone would know that if they took just a fraction of a second to actually research what they're arguing about.
[QUOTE=Drsalvador;34786395]Who gives a shit. As long as it is 100% definite that they want to go through with then [h2]WHO GIVES A SHIT HOW OTHER PEOPLE WANT TO LIVE THEIR LIFE[/h2][/QUOTE] Well if they are 100% sure about it there isn't much to argue about, but the problem here is to make sure they ARE 100% definite about it.
[QUOTE=Ganerumo;34786304] also is it just me or is FP generally just biased over Transgender-related issues ? Every time a thread pops up concerning transgenderism everyone thinks it should be normalized to the max and never questioned regardless of the circumstances. [/QUOTE] no, nobody thinks it should never be questioned, shut up and stop being a baby about how wrong you are. [editline]20th February 2012[/editline] [QUOTE=Ganerumo;34786438]Well if they are 100% sure about it there isn't much to argue about, but the problem here is to make sure they ARE 100% definite about it.[/QUOTE] [b]THAT IS WHAT THE THERAPY AND COUNSELING ARE FOR[/b]
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