• NO SHIT: A Taser shot to the chest can kill you, study warns
    50 replies, posted
[QUOTE=The Baconator;35794938]So is that s why police in Europe don't carry firearms?[/QUOTE] Who the fuck told you that? Czech Republic is central Europe most cops with exceptions of road police and such have guns. And I am pretty sure that's same through most of Europe.
[QUOTE=Awesomecaek;35794967]Who the fuck told you that? Czech Republic is central Europe most cops with exceptions of road police and such have guns. And I am pretty sure that's same through most of Europe.[/QUOTE] I think he means British Police, as they are normally unarmed.
[QUOTE=AceOfDivine;35792948]I am no doctor but I'm quite sure taser anywhere can kill you if you are old/have bad heart. But it's still one of the less lethal weapons available to police. So far there is no alternative.[/QUOTE] Second pistol that fires rubber bullets? Sounds safer than having a few hundred thousand volts course through you.
[QUOTE=Camundongo;35795032]I think he means British Police, as they are normally unarmed.[/QUOTE] Right I forgot, UK = Europe, USA = world.
[QUOTE=Camundongo;35795032]I think he means British Police, as they are normally unarmed.[/QUOTE] British Police normally use their fists or batons. Some carry tasers and a special branch carry Sub-Machineguns. Even though the British police normally use their Fists or Batons they are rather less violent than the US Police and the rest of Europe. They give people multiple warnings and normally don't use any kind of violence. For example there was an old guy with a machete in the street, they didn't want to tase him because it might stop his heart so they went in with batons and riot shields. They knocked the machete out his hand and just cuffed him then took him away. I'm sure in the US they would tase him within two seconds then beat him up on the floor.
[QUOTE=SpaceGhost;35795134]Second pistol that fires rubber bullets? Sounds safer than having a few hundred thousand volts course through you.[/QUOTE] It actually isn't, a rubber bullets can break ribs, and a shot to the head can kill. [editline]2nd May 2012[/editline] [QUOTE=Scrappa;35795158]British Police normally use their fists or batons. Some carry tasers and a special branch carry Sub-Machineguns.[/QUOTE] Pretty much the entire PSNI is armed to some degree as well.
[QUOTE=Rents;35795167]It actually isn't, a rubber bullets can break ribs, and a shot to the head can kill. [editline]2nd May 2012[/editline] Pretty much the entire PSNI is armed to some degree as well.[/QUOTE] Hm, guess so, probably wouldn't be too cheap tweaking them to go even slower for minimal injury.
Hopefully this will lean toward retraining officers on how they use their weapons. Currently, officers treat tasers as a method of incapacitating suspects. [U]This is not how tasers should be used at all.[/U] Tasers should be used [U]only[/U] as a substitute for when a firearm should be used. If an officer has no intention of using a firearm, then he should have no intention of using a taser. More on this: [video=youtube;X31eYIhoMNQ]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X31eYIhoMNQ[/video]
I've yet to see a single video of someone dying from getting shot by a tazer. I've personally been tazed by a handheld tazer and while it wasn't the most pleasant of experiences, unless you have preexisting conditions I highly doubt they can all of a sudden give you a heart attack. Where is the actual evidence for these claims? Not saying that they aren't dangerous, because they are, but I do think we should do a little digging before we jump on the "fuck da police and their tazers" bandwagon.
[QUOTE=Aetna;35795545]I've yet to see a single video of someone dying from getting shot by a tazer. I've personally been tazed by a handheld tazer and while it wasn't the most pleasant of experiences, unless you have preexisting conditions I highly doubt they can all of a sudden give you a heart attack. Where is the actual evidence for these claims? Not saying that they aren't dangerous, because they are, but I do think we should do a little digging before we jump on the "fuck da police and their tazers" bandwagon.[/QUOTE] You really need a video? [url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taser_safety_issues#Deaths_and_injuries_related_to_Taser_use[/url]
[QUOTE=Zoo;35795520]Hopefully this will lean toward retraining officers on how they use their weapons. Currently, officers treat tasers as a method of incapacitating suspects. [U]This is not how tasers should be used at all.[/U] Tasers should be used [U]only[/U] as a substitute for when a firearm should be used. If an officer has no intention of using a firearm, then he should have no intention of using a taser. More on this:[noparse] [video=youtube;X31eYIhoMNQ]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X31eYIhoMNQ[/video][/noparse][/QUOTE] I'd argue that Tasers are just too unreliable to be practical in that case. A Taser can't compete with a firearm when it comes to personal defense in a dangerous situation. A Taser only has one shot (or two depending on the model), miss it and you're fucked, prongs miss and you're fucked, prongs get stuck on clothing and you're fucked. A side-arm (pistol in most cases) generally has upwards of 10 shots that can be squeezed off as quickly as needed, and is pretty much guaranteed to stop who ever is attacking. If anything, I think a Taser would be best used as a last-resort method of incapacitating suspects while the officers are still in control. They're too risky to use once control is lost.
[QUOTE=Aetna;35795545]I've yet to see a single video of someone dying from getting shot by a tazer. I've personally been tazed by a handheld tazer and while it wasn't the most pleasant of experiences, unless you have preexisting conditions I highly doubt they can all of a sudden give you a heart attack. Where is the actual evidence for these claims? Not saying that they aren't dangerous, because they are, but I do think we should do a little digging before we jump on the "fuck da police and their tazers" bandwagon.[/QUOTE] Can't say I see many videos of people being stabbed to death, but I'm pretty sure it happens
[QUOTE=Aetna;35795545]I've yet to see a single video of someone dying from getting shot by a tazer. I've personally been tazed by a handheld tazer and while it wasn't the most pleasant of experiences, unless you have preexisting conditions I highly doubt they can all of a sudden give you a heart attack. Where is the actual evidence for these claims? Not saying that they aren't dangerous, because they are, but I do think we should do a little digging before we jump on the "fuck da police and their tazers" bandwagon.[/QUOTE] First of all, you got hit with a stun-gun or drive stun function of the taser. You didn't actually get shot with probes, because if you did you would be completely incapacitated. Stun guns are used for pain compliance, all they do is hurt. Tasers can carry a risk, however it is very rare and makes them a great tool to use. They minimize risk to the suspect and officer because in reality physical take downs and really cause injuries. Plus being shot isn't that great of a feeling too, so i can see taser being an option even with this study. [quote]Hopefully this will lean toward retraining officers on how they use their weapons. Currently, officers treat tasers as a method of incapacitating suspects. This is not how tasers should be used at all. Tasers should be used only as a substitute for when a firearm should be used. If an officer has no intention of using a firearm, then he should have no intention of using a taser.[/quote] Uh no, because if deadly force is to be used then you use it. You don't try to do anything less then that because tasers do not work all the time and if you try to use one in a deadly force situation you as the officer will be dead. Tasers are designed to incapacitate suspects it minimizes risk of injury to officer and suspect. I've seen the taser deployed hundreds of times and not a single person was injured or complained of injury. There is no substitute for a fire arm, the only time a taser will be deployed in a deadly use of force situation is if the persons partner has a firearm and the other officer uses a taser as an option. But if you're by yourself you don't run in to a knife battle or a gun fight with a taser. That is stupid. If anyone dares say using a taser on a suspect with a knife is a good option they're ignorant. Go read up on the Tueller Drill/21 foot rule. If someone is within 21 feet of you, they can charge and stab you before you draw your firearm. It is proven fact and basis used in court of law for deadly force options. Tasers can kill under certain conditions, however they're hardly going to do that. They're still a great use of force option and a great tool. I mean less then lethal bean-bags can kill, rubber bullets can kill, hell even tear gas, flash-bangs, concussion nades can kill. Less then lethal weapons can kill if used improperly or just in a really bad situation. Though in my eyes being tasered when you could have been shot is better then running the risk of being filled with lead. That being said taser company is still developing and creating new versions. They can compile tons of data because tasers has a chip in the battery that record that use of force or event. Tasers look like a piece of cheap plastic but they're like mini-computers, they compile a lot of data and can do self-diagnostic and repairs most of the time.
[QUOTE=MR-X;35796096]First of all, you got hit with a stun-gun or drive stun function of the taser. You didn't actually get shot with probes, because if you did you would be completely incapacitated. Stun guns are used for pain compliance, all they do is hurt. Tasers can carry a risk, however it is very rare and makes them a great tool to use. They minimize risk to the suspect and officer because in reality physical take downs and really cause injuries. Plus being shot isn't that great of a feeling too, so i can see taser being an option even with this study. Uh no, because if deadly force is to be used then you use it. You don't try to do anything less then that because tasers do not work all the time and if you try to use one in a deadly force situation you as the officer will be dead. Tasers are designed to incapacitate suspects it minimizes risk of injury to officer and suspect. I've seen the taser deployed hundreds of times and not a single person was injured or complained of injury. There is no substitute for a fire arm, the only time a taser will be deployed in a deadly use of force situation is if the persons partner has a firearm and the other officer uses a taser as an option. But if you're by yourself you don't run in to a knife battle or a gun fight with a taser. That is stupid. If anyone dares say using a taser on a suspect with a knife is a good option they're ignorant. Go read up on the Tueller Drill/21 foot rule. If someone is within 21 feet of you, they can charge and stab you before you draw your firearm. It is proven fact and basis used in court of law for deadly force options. Tasers can kill under certain conditions, however they're hardly going to do that. They're still a great use of force option and a great tool. I mean less then lethal bean-bags can kill, rubber bullets can kill, hell even tear gas, flash-bangs, concussion nades can kill. Less then lethal weapons can kill if used improperly or just in a really bad situation. Though in my eyes being tasered when you could have been shot is better then running the risk of being filled with lead. That being said taser company is still developing and creating new versions. They can compile tons of data because tasers has a chip in the battery that record that use of force or event. Tasers look like a piece of cheap plastic but they're like mini-computers, they compile a lot of data and can do self-diagnostic and repairs most of the time.[/QUOTE] You have a point, but design flaws will be fixed and newer products will be created. What I'm saying should apply to non-lethal weapons in general. Watch the video and you will see what I'm talking about. When authorities get their hands on non-lethal weapons, they realize that they can get away with abusing them. There have been so many reports of police taser misuse. This is one of those scenerios where technology changes faster than our codes of conduct. We have to be careful with the power we give ourselves.
Breaking news: Grass has been discovered to be #006600.
Or in CS:GO's case, the foot works fine too.
[QUOTE=Zoo;35795657]You really need a video? [URL]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taser_safety_issues#Deaths_and_injuries_related_to_Taser_use[/URL][/QUOTE] All of those occurrences were from repeated use or misuse, some of them even from being tazed by people who weren't trained to use them. In the right circumstances and when used appropriately on suspects without preexisting conditions, very few people have died. Find a circumstance where someone has died who was in good health and was tazed once for less than 3 seconds, it just doesn't happen. Out of the millions of people have been tazed, below 1% suffered lasting or fatal consequences, ([URL="http://truthnottasers.blogspot.com/2008/04/what-follows-are-names-where-known.html"]Only 727 deaths have been reported, and that's over the span of 27 years[/URL], and in multiple countries, not just the US) and a number of those were from things that happened to them while being tazed, not necessarily the tazer itself. I'm not trying to argue, the numbers just don't add up to me. Millions of people have died getting beaten by police, I'd rather take the hundreds who died from being tazed as a more viable option than physical contact; here's an idea, don't run from the police, comply with their commands and you won't ever end up in a situation where a tazer will be used on you. Unless you can offer a better solution, the tazer is incredibly efficient when [B]used appropriately[/B], that's all I'm trying to say. You can't argue that they're not efficient and more lethal than physical contact, because it's simply not true. Were I a cop and an unarmed person twice my size was approaching me quickly and aggressively, I'm not going to shoot and kill them; I'd much rather incapacitate them long enough to gain the advantage and subdue them. I guess my point is that the efficiency of the tazer outweighs the negatives compared to other police methods. Batons and sprays cause more damage than a tazer does in the long run.
[QUOTE=Zoo;35795520]Hopefully this will lean toward retraining officers on how they use their weapons. Currently, officers treat tasers as a method of incapacitating suspects. [U]This is not how tasers should be used at all.[/U] Tasers should be used [U]only[/U] as a substitute for when a firearm should be used. If an officer has no intention of using a firearm, then he should have no intention of using a taser. More on this: [video=youtube;X31eYIhoMNQ]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X31eYIhoMNQ[/video][/QUOTE] Well if you're going to only use a taser in a situation you would use a gun, you might as well just a use a gun.
I'm surprised they havent tried to create some other form of non-lethal way to take people down. Like something that has a very high impact force but isn't dense/solid enough to do damage. Bean bag rounds are kind of like that but they are still able to break ribs and kill. Like imagine being hit in the face with a pillow really hard. It would knock you off your feet/stagger you but it doesnt particularly hurt or cause damage. [QUOTE=Mingebox;35797263]Well if you're going to only use a taser in a situation you would use a gun, you might as well just a use a gun.[/QUOTE] I think it depends on the situation, but obviously it would only be very rarely that it would be suitable to replace a gun with a taser. For example, they could be used on someone that has a knife or is in a situation where they may kill themselves with a knife. I guess no amount of training will be able to stop some officers using tasers when they really shouldn't, it takes a strong person to not let their emotions overcome what they have been trained to do.
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[URL="http://www.newscientist.com/blogs/shortsharpscience/2012/05/taser-dart-pierces-skull-and-s.html"]And in other taser hysteria[/URL]: [QUOTE]This striking image shows the central issue examined in one of the papers: what happens when one of the two barbed darts fired by a police Taser struck a 27-year-old man on the side of the head. Although Isabel Le Blanc-Louvry and colleagues at the department of forensic medicine at Rouen University Hospital in France do not reveal when or where this occured, they say the victim had been drunk and resisted police requests for his ID. The police fired the pneumatically powered Taser to incapacitate and subdue him - but somehow nobody noticed a dart remained stuck in his head, until he later went to hospital complaining of a persistent headache. In the ER, the dart was found to "have penetrated the frontal part of the skull and damaged the underlying frontal lobe", the team report in Forensic Science International. "We observed that the length of the Taser dart is sufficient to allow brain penetration," they write. The man made a full recovery.[/QUOTE] [IMG]http://www.newscientist.com/blogs/shortsharpscience/2012/05/02/image001.jpg[/IMG]
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