• Trial for Accused Nazi Guard John Demjanjuk Will Go Forward in Germany
    82 replies, posted
[QUOTE]MUNICH — A court in Munich ruled Friday that the trial of accused Nazi guard John Demjanjuk can go forward, The Associated Press reported. Trial dates haven't yet been set for the ailing, retired Ohio autoworker, who was deported in May to Germany. At issue was whether he was medically fit to stand trial. Demjanjuk, 89, is accused of serving as a guard at a death camp where approximately 29,000 Jews and others were killed. He is charged with being an accessory to their murders. The Ukrainian-born Demjanjuk says he was a Red Army soldier who was captured by the Nazis, spent the rest of the war as their prisoner and never hurt anyone. There are Nazi-era documents that suggest otherwise — including a photo ID identifying Demjanjuk as a guard at the Sobibor death camp and saying he was trained at a facility for Nazi guards at Trawniki.The Munich state court said Friday that it has accepted the charge sheet against Demjanjuk, a necessary step in German legal proceedings. It says in a statement that specific dates have not yet been set but that proceedings likely will start "at the beginning of November." Demjanjuk faces charges of being an accessory to the murder of 27,900 people at the Sobibor death camp in Nazi-occupied Poland where prosecutors allege he served as a guard. Demjanjuk, who was stripped of his American citizenship in 2002, is likely to spend the rest of his life in Germany, either in jail or in a home for the elderly. Questions have been raised about Demjanjuk's health. Dramatic photos released this spring showed him wincing in apparent pain as he was removed by immigration agents from his home in Seven Hills, Ohio. However, images taken only days earlier and released by the U.S. government showed him entering his car unaided outside a medical office. Demjanjuk's son, John Demjanjuk Jr., said in May that his father is dying of leukemic bone marrow disease and may not even survive the flight from Cleveland to Munich. [/QUOTE] Source: [url]http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,558967,00.html?test=latestnews[/url]
Wow we better hope we get him executed as swiftly as possible, it's not like you can't kill someone who was allegedly a guard 60 years ago. For the love of god do I have to stamp [B]SARCASM[/B] all over my post. Don't they really teach reading in schools these days.
Wasn't he just following orders?
I'm really not sure how I feel about this. While the dude was a complete asshole, I think he was just a weak man forced by a misguided hand to do what he did during the war. After the war he led a normal life in Ohio, so it's apparent that he is more than capable of being a normal, law-abiding citizen. So bottom line: guy was a prick, but it was due to his situation and it was legal at the time. Not sure if he should have to spend his life (or what's left of it) in jail for this.
[QUOTE=iamgnome;17618789]Wasn't he just following orders?[/QUOTE] Yeah he was *slamming the card to the desk* [B]BUT HITLER[/B] [editline]06:17PM[/editline] [quote=sebbonaparta;17618835] so bottom line: Guy was a prick, but it was due to his situation and it was legal at the time. Not sure if he should have to spend his life (or what's left of it) in jail for this.[/quote] Oh [B]BUT HITLER[/B]
That should teach him for being a damn nazi.
[QUOTE=iamgnome;17618789]Wasn't he just following orders?[/QUOTE] Not exactly: Demjanjuk's claims are pretty hard to believe. He was a guard at Sobibor - one of the camps established under the "Reinhard Action" system of death camps, I think the camp commandant was Fritz Stangl. Reportedly, Demjanjuk used to slice the noses and ears off elderly Jews going into the gas chambers. Whilst he was following orders, his orders only extended to ensure that the Jews were forced into the chambers efficiently. For all those saying he was just following orders, bear in mind that Ukraine was virulently anti-semitic, even before the arrival of the Nazis. Demjanjuk was a native Ukrainian, so he went above and beyond the call of duty in ensuring Jewish prisoners suffered before being put to death.
[QUOTE=evilking1;17618765]Wow we better hope we get him executed as swiftly as possible, it's not like you can't kill someone who was allegedly a guard 60 years ago.[/QUOTE] Said he'll most likely get life in prison. Plus, he's got bone marrow disease so he'll probably croak soon anyways.
[QUOTE=SylarMinelli;17618856]Not exactly: Demjanjuk's claims are pretty hard to believe. He was a guard at Sobibor - one of the camps established under the "Reinhard Action" system of death camps, I think the camp commandant was Fritz Stangl. Reportedly, Demjanjuk used to slice the noses and ears off elderly Jews going into the gas chambers. Whilst he was following orders, his orders only extended to ensure that the Jews were forced into the chambers efficiently. For all those saying he was just following orders, bear in mind that Ukraine was virulently anti-semitic, even before the arrival of the Nazis. Demjanjuk was a native Ukrainian, so he went above and beyond the call of duty in ensuring Jewish prisoners suffered before being put to death.[/QUOTE] Damn.
The real cruncher is that the Nazis destroyed all the Reinhard Action camps, replacing them with newly-constructed farms, most of which had occupants who promised to tell anyone investigating that they had been living there for decades. So definitive evidence is difficult to find.
[QUOTE=SylarMinelli;17618856]Not exactly: Demjanjuk's claims are pretty hard to believe. He was a guard at Sobibor - one of the camps established under the "Reinhard Action" system of death camps, I think the camp commandant was Fritz Stangl. Reportedly, Demjanjuk used to slice the noses and ears off elderly Jews going into the gas chambers. Whilst he was following orders, his orders only extended to ensure that the Jews were forced into the chambers efficiently. For all those saying he was just following orders, bear in mind that Ukraine was virulently anti-semitic, even before the arrival of the Nazis. Demjanjuk was a native Ukrainian, so he went above and beyond the call of duty in ensuring Jewish prisoners suffered before being put to death.[/QUOTE] It would be good if the source actually mentioned any of that.
[QUOTE=iamgnome;17618789]Wasn't he just following orders?[/QUOTE] The "following orders" excuse didn't work back in Nuremberg, what makes you think it'll work now?
Haven't we learned anything from the Milgram experiments?
[QUOTE=YoMother;17619217]Haven't we learned anything from the Milgram experiments?[/QUOTE] What are the Milgram experiments?
[QUOTE=Negrul1]It would be good if the source actually mentioned any of that. [/QUOTE] Well, in order not to be misleading, I used the word "reportedly" to discuss the only unproven thing I mentioned, which is Demjanjuk's conduct - which is what this trial is attempting to determine. Everything else is already fact: Action Reinhard: [url]http://www.historylearningsite.co.uk/action_reinhard.htm[/url] Fritz Stangl: [url]http://www.britannica.com/EBchecked/topic/709816/Franz-Stangl[/url] Pre-war Anti-Semitism in the Ukraine: [url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_Jews_in_Ukraine#Early_20th_Century[/url] [url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holocaust_in_Ukraine#Death_squads_.281941.E2.80.931943.29[/url] Just because something isn't in one article from Fox News doesn't make it untrue.
Still, he shouldn't get punished for something he did 60 years ago or so.
[QUOTE=Minorkos;17619270]Still, he shouldn't get punished for something he did 60 years ago or so.[/QUOTE] So if somebody commits a crime (if he did) and gets away with it, they shouldn't be punished?
[QUOTE=Minorkos;17619270]Still, he shouldn't get punished for something he did 60 years ago or so.[/QUOTE] Why? If Hitler didn't kill himself, and went into hiding, and was discoverd some 30-40 years later, are you saying he shouldn't of be punished because "it was a long time ago"? (I say 30-40 because it would of been impossible for him to live 60 years after WWII)
[QUOTE=Emperor Scorpious II;17619252]What are the Milgram experiments?[/QUOTE] A measure on people's obedience when taking orders from someone with authority even when it goes against the individual's morals or feelings
[QUOTE=KaIibos;17619624]A measure on people's obedience when taking orders from someone with authority even when it goes against the individual's morals or feelings[/QUOTE] Basically it involved a shock collar and commands for people to do things they generally wouldn't do.
From the sounds of it the amount of evidence they have against this guy is ridiculously vague and stupid. It's such a waste of time and resources to try prosecute this guy. Even if he did "assist" in the killing of thousands of people he was following orders, the person giving the orders should be prosecuted not the person following them. If he didn't follow orders he probably would've been shot.
[QUOTE=iamgnome;17618789]Wasn't he just following orders?[/QUOTE] If that's the case, I'm going to get my friend to go and kill 200,000+ plus people and HEY!, He's just following orders, no problem here. :geno:
[QUOTE=deathbringerhcm;17620422]If that's the case, I'm going to get my friend to go and kill 200,000+ plus people and HEY!, He's just following orders, no problem here. :geno:[/QUOTE] You're not in a war, it's not your job to kill people, you got a crazy friend.
[QUOTE=iamgnome;17620492]You're not in a war, it's not your job to kill people, you got a crazy friend.[/QUOTE] The Nazis weren't in a war against the Jews. They were officially at war with Britain (+ colonies), France (+ colonies) and Russia at that point. What the Nazis did was a policy of ethnic cleansing, simply liquidating the Jewish poulation of Eastern Europe because that's what the doctrine said they should do. Why do you think they were tried for [b]war crimes[/b]? They were crimes committed whilst they were at war.
Just let him go. He was brainwashed like every other Nazi during the war by countless speeches.
[QUOTE=Boba_Fett;17621999]Just let him go. He was brainwashed like every other Nazi during the war by countless speeches.[/QUOTE] Hitler did have some good ideas, it's just that the Jew Killing was a bit off. If you were an Industrial Manufacturer in Hitler's time, you benefitted very well.
Hitler was a socialist, which is evil.
[QUOTE=Boba_Fett;17622038]Hitler was a socialist, which is evil.[/QUOTE] Socialism > Capitalism. Capitalism is Evil.
[QUOTE=radioactive;17622028] If you were an Industrial Manufacturer in Hitler's time, you benefitted very well.[/QUOTE] One reasons the ones with a lot of capital were behind him, either him or communism.
No, Hitler wanted the Industry's to make lots of mechanical stuff so he had weapons to start a war.
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