• Refugees disagreeing about ramadan burn their center down.
    127 replies, posted
[QUOTE]German investigators believe a dispute over Ramadan meals led to a fire that gutted a shelter for 282 asylum seekers in the western city of Duesseldorf. They say a group of men who were not fasting had complained that their lunch portions were too small. Two North African men, aged 26, have been arrested and charged with arson. The hall was destroyed at a major Duesseldorf convention centre close to the city's airport. Damage has been estimated at €10m ($11m; £8m). The hall was acting as an accommodation hub for men mainly from Syria, Iraq, Afghanistan and North Africa who were waiting to be sent elsewhere in the state of North Rhine-Westphalia. Both Muslims and Christians were living there. Some 7,000 refugees and migrants are currently being housed in Duesseldorf, officials told Germany's DPA news agency. Germany saw an influx of more than 1.1 million refugees and migrants in 2015 and although the number of arrivals has fallen, officials face a huge task in processing hundreds of thousands of asylum claims.[/QUOTE] [url]http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-36487781[/url] [IMG]http://ichef-1.bbci.co.uk/news/660/cpsprodpb/9ECC/production/_89925604_033348725-1.jpg[/IMG]
"Refugees" ... "Two North African men"???
yea, Europe is bringing over some really winners lattly
[QUOTE=Crhem van der B;50486204]"Refugees" ... "Two North African men"???[/QUOTE] Libya, possibly.
and so 2 people completely screwed over the people who paid for the housing for the refugees, and the many refugees who depended on it. nice
[QUOTE=theevilldeadII;50486222]yea, Europe is bringing over some really winners lattly[/QUOTE] Well that is kind of the deal with refuge systems. You take in basically anybody, we don't live in a world of precogs, we can't foresee the potential crimes of any given refugee. This isn't a mark against refuge systems, as the person who committed this act now has a criminal record in their host country and is likely a candidate for deportation to somewhere else (likely shittier in this case).
[QUOTE]Damage has been estimated at €10m ($11m; £8m).[/QUOTE] [QUOTE]A number of men suffered from smoke inhalation[/QUOTE] [QUOTE]One of the suspects told reporters: "We had to do it so that things would change."[/QUOTE] Sounds like they'd probably feel more at home at whatever northern African shithole they came from.
These 2 can fuck right off back to where they came from imo. They're being GIVEN everything until they can support themselves and they repay that by setting fire to the place, fucking over hundreds of other people as well.
Seriously should have restricted taking in only families atleast. That way they have some obligation to responsibility. You will get people who try to cheat the system still, but right now it's just too open.
[QUOTE=theevilldeadII;50486222]yea, Europe is bringing over some really winners lattly[/QUOTE] Except Europe is not bringing over anyone [editline]9th June 2016[/editline] [QUOTE=hexpunK;50486279]Well that is kind of the deal with refuge systems. You take in basically anybody, we don't live in a world of precogs, we can't foresee the potential crimes of any given refugee. This isn't a mark against refuge systems, as the person who committed this act now has a criminal record in their host country and is likely a candidate for deportation to somewhere else (likely shittier in this case).[/QUOTE] Acceptance rate is 2% for north Africans currently
[QUOTE=Tudd;50486355]Seriously should have restricted taking in only families atleast. That way they have some obligation to responsibility. You will get people who try to cheat the system still, but right now it's just too open.[/QUOTE] What about all the individuals that are genuinely escaping imminent danger?
[QUOTE=Raidyr;50486429]What about all the individuals that are genuinely escaping imminent danger?[/QUOTE] I don't think that people who actually fled an active warzone would burn down the place they were housed in because they didn't get enough food. The same goes with supposed refugees committing other sorts of crime, or even (sexually) assault the native population. I am not fucking buying it that you fled an active warzone fearing for your life when you do shit like that, just saying.
[QUOTE=Jordax;50486459]I don't think that people who actually fled an active warzone would burn down the place [/QUOTE] Yes that's why it's 2 guys not 282
People do seem to forget that Syria isn't the only source of genuine refugees - many people from Libya, Eritrea, Congo and Iraq (this list is not exhaustive) are justified in seeking refuge as well.
[QUOTE=Jordax;50486459]I don't think that people who actually fled an active warzone would burn down the place they were housed in because they didn't get enough food. The same goes with supposed refugees committing other sorts of crime, or even (sexually) assault the native population. I am not fucking buying it that you fled an active warzone fearing for your life when you do shit like that, just saying.[/QUOTE] I'd really love for you to show everyone the part of my post where I say that the two people who burned down this shelter and the people who commit sexual assault are the types of people fleeing genuine danger. [editline]9th June 2016[/editline] You know goddamn well those aren't the people I'm talking about.
[QUOTE=Raidyr;50486429]What about all the individuals that are genuinely escaping imminent danger?[/QUOTE] Then they can stay at the refugee camps in nearby countries with similar cultures. Sorry but you gotta be tough, and just taking in families for Europe would be already more then it owes to them. There is a reason why these single men are not just stopping at the first country they can reside safely. I mean you really don't need to put yourself more then a 1000 miles going to Sweden to escape danger. That's just insurance not to get sent back and hoping you get free housing in countries that have a hard time dealing with their own natives on housing. Not to mention individuals represent the workforce needs for Syria to ever recover not to mention a higher security risk being possible combatants and having no responsibilities compared to a family.
[QUOTE=Tudd;50487056]Then they can stay at the refugee camps in nearby countries with similar cultures.[/QUOTE] You mean like Jordan? Which is fucking brimming with refugees because no other neighbouring countries are pulling their weight? Yes, we should really get the Saudis to do their part, but until they do the refugees do need to move elsewhere, as they have already saturated the neighbours that aren't total dickheads. Moving thousands of miles past a "safe zone" might be the only option in some cases unless you want to be lumped into an overcrowded asylum somewhere. Refuge isn't a case of "don't take them lmao", until you hit capacity you kinda just take whoever comes in unless you can prove they are dangerous or lying. Being picky is discriminatory practice for little reason other than presumptive fear. 99.999% of these guys aren't a threat. A super-minority of them being fucksticks shouldn't cause you to clamp those borders shut like it's your asshole on a cold day.
Are you gonna leave the US your culture is very foreign and incompatible to the local native culture. Traveled thousands of miles too I mean why didn't the Irish for example just go to England or France where there was no famine and a similar religion and culture? ( yes this is an exaggeration so please argue the point and don't repeat apples and oranges again) [editline]9th June 2016[/editline] No man why are the refugees not stopping in Greece a country deep in the biggest recession since the civil war
[QUOTE=hexpunK;50487125]You mean like Jordan? Which is fucking brimming with refugees because no other neighbouring countries are pulling their weight? Yes, we should really get the Saudis to do their part, but until they do the refugees do need to move elsewhere, as they have already saturated the neighbours that aren't total dickheads. Moving thousands of miles past a "safe zone" might be the only option in some cases unless you want to be lumped into an overcrowded asylum somewhere. Refuge isn't a case of "don't take them lmao", until you hit capacity you kinda just take whoever comes in unless you can prove they are dangerous or lying. Being picky is discriminatory practice for little reason other than presumptive fear. 99.999% of these guys aren't a threat. A super-minority of them being fucksticks shouldn't cause you to clamp those borders shut like it's your asshole on a cold day.[/QUOTE] Be better to fund the willing nearby countries and then take in the families to help offset. Then start putting pressure on countries like Saudi Arabia who literally has a 3 million population capacity tent cities on standby. But yeah man lets just take in every refugee with disregard to security, the chance for recovery of Syria, and decades long of non-integration. Right now the system is a joke that actually is going to cause more problems then it solves.
how many refugees per destroyed property, raped woman or murdered man is a fair ratio?
[QUOTE=Tudd;50487239]Be better to fund the willing nearby countries and then take in the families to help offset. Then start putting pressure on countries like Saudi Arabia who literally has a 3 million population capacity tent cities on standby. But yeah man lets just take in every refugee with disregard to security, the chance for recovery of Syria, and decades long of non-integration. Right now the system is a joke that actually is going to cause more problems then it solves.[/QUOTE] I see you are proficient in talking out your asshole because its apparent you dont know how the refugee intake process works
[QUOTE=Code3Response;50487365]I see you are proficient in talking out your asshole because its apparent you dont know how the refugee intake process works[/QUOTE] They hit a station in a neighboring country, apply for residence, and get approved to go in after checked with papers. Or they pay a human smuggler and say fuck all to that process and try to cross in or walk it. Then they get hope to make it in with a host country or get denied and still put into a temporary station to get sent back eventually in years. I know they get vetted, you don't need to explain it to me, but there is still huge faults. My gross ass simplification of that, but whatever. Enjoy a history proven result of what happens when you have massive influxes of non-compatible integration done with haste.
[QUOTE=hexpunK;50487125][b]A super-minority of them being fucksticks shouldn't cause you to clamp those borders shut like it's your asshole on a cold day.[/b][/QUOTE] You are wrong. Let me explain to you why you are wrong. Asylum seekers are members of a population. They are the population of people seeking asylum in whatever country they're seeking it in. As all populations are, they are subject to overarching generalizations and assumptions made about their personality and how they will act based on the noticeable actions of other individuals within their population. Why? Because throughout all of recorded human history, we have judged individuals based on their associations, including what populations they belong to, and we have associated attributes from high-profile individuals with their corresponding populations. We do this because it is an absolute survival imperative to be able to judge an individual instantaneously and accurately. Judging them based on their associations, including what population they belong to, is one of the most surefire and quickest way to determine how someone will act, because members of the same population tend to have the same upbringing, same morality, same thought process, etc. due to being a product of the same environment. So when refugees start shitting the bed and start breaking things and assaulting citizens of their prospective adoptive countries and burning down their own housing centers because of some fucking asinine dietary restriction, that reflects on the entire population of refugees. I don't give a shit if anyone takes issue with this phenomenon of the perception of shared attributes because it's xenophobic or racist or discriminatory in any sense of the word, because it is, and it is a discrimination deeply rooted in our survival instincts that only a moron would trade away. It's the same survival instinct that prevents you from putting your hand on a hot burner. You know that hurts, so you don't do that. But you don't just prevent your hand from touching a burner when it's on - you also tend to not touch a burner when it's perfectly safe and cool, because there's still that potential of it being hot. You don't really know until you touch the burner. [sp]If you think that's bullshit, tell me the last time you actually rested your entire hand on a burner, on purpose or just without thinking it. Probably not recently, even though they take up a lot of area in your kitchen. I know I never do it, so it might be anecdotal, but I highly doubt I'm a member of the minority on this one.[/sp] By virtue of their publicized history of violence and unrest, regardless of the proportion of the refugee population has been committing the publicized acts, refugees are now burners. That entire population of men, women, and children have now becomes burners. There is a chance that any government which lays its hands on them may get burned, or have its citizens' hands burn. The central goal of the government is to protect its citizens. Therefore, it is not at all unreasonable for a government to "clamp those borders shut like it's [their] asshole on a cold day." If I were in government, I would never risk the safety of my citizens for any reason.
[QUOTE=J$ Psychotic;50487723]long post[/QUOTE] I'm not sure I understand the logic of "It's our instinct, so it must be correct." Nothing in that post actually explains why hexpunk is wrong.
[quote]Eight men were arrested and two were remanded in custody accused of setting fire to the hall.[/quote] i just dont.... what the hell!? even in africa its not socially acceptable to start burning places down when you don't like it
[QUOTE=Tracker;50488442]I'm not sure I understand the logic of "It's our instinct, so it must be correct." Nothing in that post actually explains why hexpunk is wrong.[/QUOTE] But survival instincts are correct. If they were incorrect, they wouldn't be survival instincts, they would be mistakes, and the individuals who made those mistakes would be pruned from the gene pool by the adverse forces they failed to overcome. And I wouldn't agree that nothing in my post actually explains why that viewpoint is wrong. I explained (in pretty good detail while keeping it brief, I thought) why it's reasonable to seek to deny all asylum seekers entry. Also, I need to make an apology to hexpunk. In my original post, I opened up by saying "You are wrong. Let me show you why you are wrong." That was not the proper way to start my argument. I should have divorced the individual from the perspective and instead said "That point of view is wrong." Sorry about that.
[QUOTE=J$ Psychotic;50488537]But survival instincts are correct. If they were incorrect, they wouldn't be survival instincts, they would be mistakes, and the individuals who made those mistakes would be pruned from the gene pool by the adverse forces they failed to overcome. And I wouldn't agree that nothing in my post actually explains why that viewpoint is wrong. I explained (in pretty good detail while keeping it brief, I thought) why it's reasonable to seek to deny all asylum seekers entry. Also, I need to make an apology to hexpunk. In my original post, I opened up by saying "You are wrong. Let me show you why you are wrong." That was not the proper way to start my argument. I should have divorced the individual from the perspective and instead said "That point of view is wrong." Sorry about that.[/QUOTE] Wouldn't you extend that same logic to citizens of a country, though? You could quite easily look at some statistic somewhere and conclude that it's by and large poor people who steal, or that most rapes are committed by men, so they would become burners and thus justify the ghettoisation of that particular group. Taken to an extreme you could say that the entire human population can't be trusted and that we should live solitary lives. It's no more reasonable to deny all asylum seekers entry - people who are fleeing for their lives and reliant entirely on other people's benevolence (another trait that's in our nature) for their wellbeing, I remind you - than it is to deport the homeless or castrate males.
[QUOTE=Kentz;50487315]how many refugees per destroyed property, raped woman or murdered man is a fair ratio?[/QUOTE] About 0.0069. This would roughly match the incidence of violent crime in the native population for Germany.
[quote]One of the [B]suspects[/B] told reporters: "[B]We had to do it[/B] so that things would change."[/quote] If they admitted to doing it, why call them a suspect? Just because you're an immigrant doesn't mean this shit should fly, and honestly, if it were up to me, all the people suspected and arrested for this would be booted out back to Armenia or wherever they are from in North Africa.
[QUOTE=Maximo13;50489469]If they admitted to doing it, why call them a suspect? Just because you're an immigrant doesn't mean this shit should fly, and honestly, if it were up to me, all the people suspected and arrested for this would be booted out back to Armenia or wherever they are from in North Africa.[/QUOTE] You're always a suspect until a trial have judged you to be guilty.
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