• Against Me! Singer Tom Gabel Comes Out As Transgender, Plans On Starting Hormone Treatments
    449 replies, posted
[QUOTE=antair;35883441]The source and his Wikipedia page say he's transgender when he's actually transsexual. Yes, there's a difference.[/QUOTE] I've never really looked into transgenderism or any of that, so it was just an honest mistake. No harm meant by it. If a mod wouldn't mind changing Transsexual in the title to say Transgender I would appreciate it muchly.
Isn't this going to mess up their singing voice? Just saying. I'm happy for them, but it could mean some serious changes when it comes to the band.
-snip-
[QUOTE=The First 11'er;35883691]It's so fucking misleading when you're calling him her. Call him [b]her[/b] when the whole process is done, not right when it begins. It's just fucking confusing.[/QUOTE] That's not how it works. You don't call people a man if they identify themselves as a woman. You do not refer to someone to their biological sex if you are aware of their GID.
[QUOTE=KnowProblem;35883689]Isn't this going to mess up their singing voice? Just saying.[/QUOTE] So?
Woow. Not even a few minutes in and already people trying to justify using the wrong pronouns. *sigh*
[QUOTE=The First 11'er;35883691]It's so fucking misleading when you're calling him her. Call him [b]her[/b] when the whole process is done, not right when it begins. It's just fucking confusing.[/QUOTE] That's not how it works. And it shouldn't be. Gender is a sense of mind, not relating to your physical body where as your sex is whether you're a male or female. It's not confusing, it's fucking rude to say "he" or "she" when they don't identify with that sex. What's not to fucking get?
[QUOTE=Jack_Thompson;35883717]So?[/QUOTE] So that could potentially be the end of a band many people have been close to for 15 years?
I think the fact that her wife is staying with her truly shows that marriage isn't black and white. ... Or that women can go both ways, which ever works the best.
Is it wrong that this whole transsexual stuff really weirds me out? It's not like I am against it really but it's just plain weird to me, it's not like I have old-fasion views or anything but I just don't like the thought of it.
[QUOTE=HumanAbyss;35883737]That's not how it works. And it shouldn't be. Gender is a sense of mind, not relating to your physical body where as your sex is whether you're a male or female. It's not confusing, it's fucking rude to say "he" or "she" when they don't identify with that sex. What's not to fucking get?[/QUOTE] When you originally identify someone as a male and then they just suddenly throw out that they're going to be a girl, it's not an easy process to go through when you have to change your whole mindset of how to act and/or call them.
[QUOTE=The First 11'er;35883774]When you originally identify someone as a male and then they just suddenly throw out that they're going to be a girl, it's not an easy process to go through when you have to change your whole mindset of how to act and/or call them.[/QUOTE] No, and I'm going through it now, but it's still fucking rude for you to call them by the opposite of what they are identifying themselves by. People in that situation usually get that it's hard to get it right away, but when you're trying to justify calling them the wrong one, you've gone too far. Your first post I replied to is an example of trying to justify it. It's not okay.
[QUOTE=The First 11'er;35883774]When you originally identify someone as a male and then they just suddenly throw out that they're going to be a girl, it's not an easy process to go through when you have to change your whole mindset of how to act and/or call them.[/QUOTE] Especially when all she did was put on a dress. All I'm saying is put a little more effort into it.
[QUOTE=The First 11'er;35883774]When you originally identify someone as a male and then they just suddenly throw out that they're going to be a girl, [B]it's not an easy process to go through when you have to change your whole mindset of how to act and/or call them.[/B][/QUOTE] LOL are you serious? It's so difficult to refer to someone by the pronoun they identify as when you KNOW they have GID? Poor you. It's clearly so much more difficult than being called the wrong gender by someone who is aware of your gender.
[QUOTE=mugofdoom;35883790]Especially when all he did was put on a dress.[/QUOTE] Who gives a shit? It's not about clothing. It's about how you feel as a person and how you identify with the world. So what if you're a guy who wants to be a girl who still wears somewhat "tomboyish" shit or full out dresses. It's not about that. How is this hard? Reading your edit just makes you a big asshole.
[QUOTE=Boxbot219;35883801]LOL are you serious? It's so difficult to refer to someone by the pronoun they identify as when you KNOW they have GID? Poor you. It's clearly so much more difficult than being called the wrong gender by someone who is aware of your gender.[/QUOTE] Holy shit, are you literally fucking stupid? Imagine if you had a close friend to you who ultimately decided that they were a girl and for all your lives you were basically friends as how you perceived. Now you're friends with a chick; you don't easily call him a girl. You're obviously so fucking stuck that everyone must go along with what everyone says. I don't give a flying fuck that he chose to be a girl; that's actually great for him because he's doing what he wants to be because he didn't feel he was actually a guy. But it's different when you identified them as a man and all of a sudden that changes.
[QUOTE=KnowProblem;35883689]Isn't this going to mess up their singing voice? Just saying. I'm happy for them, but it could mean some serious changes when it comes to the band.[/QUOTE] It will not. You have to learn how to change your voice yourself, and might even be able to go back and force between voices at will. Alternatively, vocal surgery exists, but it's a very expensive gamble with no guarantees that it'll sound good, and you run the risk of losing your voice permanently.
[QUOTE=leet;35883744]So that could potentially be the end of a band many people have been close to for 15 years?[/QUOTE] That's secondary to her being happy. All of AM!'s music has been her pouring her emotions out, and I'm sure she'll continue to do that. So far there's been a very large outpouring of support from the online punk community. Time will tell how it sounds, but like I said. It's what makes her happy and I think that's wonderful.
[QUOTE=The First 11'er;35883829]Holy shit, are you literally fucking stupid? Imagine if you had a close friend to you who ultimately decided that they were a girl and for all your lives you were basically friends as how you perceived. Now you're friends with a chick; you don't easily call him a girl. You're obviously so fucking stuck that everyone must go along with what everyone says. I don't give a flying fuck that he chose to be a girl; that's actually great for him because he's doing what he wants to be because he didn't feel he was actually a guy. But it's different when you identified them as a man and all of a sudden that changes.[/QUOTE] You know I find it quite hilarious that you used this scenario, because I did have a close friend who did this. My dad also had a friend who did this. I didn't find it difficult to refer to her as a girl at all. Maybe I'm just more tolerant of transgender people that I don't find someone who chooses to identify themselves as their gender identity shocking.
[QUOTE=mugofdoom;35883790]Especially when all she did was put on a dress. All I'm saying is put a little more effort into it.[/QUOTE] [quote]Gabel, who has dealt privately with gender dysphoria for years, [B]will soon begin the process of transition, by taking hormones and undergoing electrolysis treatments.[/B][/quote] Reading helps.
[QUOTE=The First 11'er;35883829]Holy shit, are you literally fucking stupid? Imagine if you had a close friend to you who ultimately decided that they were a girl and for all your lives you were basically friends as how you perceived. Now you're friends with a chick; you don't easily call him a girl. You're obviously so fucking stuck that everyone must go along with what everyone says. I don't give a flying fuck that he chose to be a girl; that's actually great for him because he's doing what he wants to be because he didn't feel he was actually a guy. But it's different when you identified them as a man and all of a sudden that changes.[/QUOTE] You're so laughable. Is this really how you think? This has happened to me as well and it doesn't matter that it's fucking hard, it's rude to try and justify it LIKE you did. That's the fucking point.
[QUOTE=Boxbot219;35883860]You know I find it quite hilarious that you used this scenario, because I did have a close friend who did this. My dad also had a friend who did this. I didn't find it difficult to refer to her as a girl at all. Maybe I'm just more tolerant of transgender people that I don't find someone who chooses to identify themselves as their gender identity shocking.[/QUOTE] No, you're tolerant to a big amount of change in a not exactly vast amount of time. [editline]9th May 2012[/editline] [QUOTE=HumanAbyss;35883908]You're so laughable. Is this really how you think? This has happened to me as well and it doesn't matter that it's fucking hard, it's rude to try and justify it LIKE you did. That's the fucking point.[/QUOTE] Do you not get the fucking point? I'm not saying that I'm not going to call them what they prefer. You're not reading anything if you're seriously thinking that's what I'm getting at.
-eh nevermind, I've given Against Me! enough shit-
[QUOTE=mugofdoom;35883923]-eh nevermind, I've given Against Me! enough shit-[/QUOTE] I'm actually interested to know what you said, come on.
[QUOTE=The First 11'er;35883913] Do you not get the fucking point? I'm not saying that I'm not going to call them what they prefer. You're not reading anything if you're seriously thinking that's what I'm getting at.[/QUOTE] No, according to [URL="http://facepunch.com/threads/1182634?p=35883691&viewfull=1#post35883691"]this post[/URL] your point was that you don't refer someone by their gender identity if it is to the contrary of their biological sex until they go through the entire sex change process. Your point was idiotic.
[QUOTE=The First 11'er;35883913]No, you're tolerant to a big amount of change in a not exactly vast amount of time. [editline]9th May 2012[/editline] Do you not get the fucking point? I'm not saying that I'm not going to call them what they prefer. You're not reading anything if you're seriously thinking that's what I'm getting at.[/QUOTE] How about you fucking write what you mean rather than saying you don't want to call them what they want to be in your FIRST fucking post? Short term memory much? Or do you just prefer to ignore what you say once you've been called on it?
So male is somebody with a penis correct? Or is him with somebody with a penis?
[QUOTE=leet;35883948]I'm actually interested to know what you said, come on.[/QUOTE] Nah, I'm starting to feel like too big of an asshole. As much as I love ragging on the band for being terrible, and as hilarious as it would be to witness them playing with the lead singer dressed as she is in that picture, I think I'm going to call it quits. [editline]8th May 2012[/editline] [QUOTE=Laferio;35884000]So male is somebody with a penis correct? Or is him with somebody with a penis?[/QUOTE] His sex is male, but her gender identity is female.
Ok so I'm assuming its alright to call him a male, instead of him then right?
[QUOTE=Laferio;35884025]Ok so I'm assuming its alright to call him a male, instead of him then right?[/QUOTE] You wouldn't be able to use "male" as a pronoun. "Tom is a really bad singer. Male cannot sing very well."
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