• Israeli soldier in the occupied territories summarily executes wounded man who allegedly attacked so
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[quote]The Israeli army detained a soldier on Thursday after he shot an unarmed Palestinian man in the head as he lay motionless on the ground in the occupied West Bank city of Hebron. Human rights activists circulated a video of the incident, prompting wide condemnation from Israeli leaders. Palestinian officials called the shooting a war crime. "What happened in Hebron doesn't represent the values of the IDF," Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu said in a statement issued after the video of the shooting went viral. "The IDF expects its soldiers to behave level-headedly and in accordance with the rules of engagement." The incident occurred in the occupied-West Bank city of Hebron on early Thursday morning. At first, Israeli media reported only that two Palestinian men had been killed after stabbing and wounding an Israeli soldier in Tel Rumeida, a Palestinian neighbourhood located near several Jewish-only settlements in the city center. The Jewish Telegraph Agency wire service filed a brief dispatch that morning reporting that "two attackers were shot dead by security forces at the scene." But later in the day, the Israeli human rights organization B'Tselem published a video of the incident that shows a summary execution of a seemingly defenseless and wounded Palestinian man.[/quote] [quote]"The soldier took it upon himself to be the judge in this case," Greenvald told VICE News. [b]"What really frightens me is that it seems normal for everyone in the video."[/b][/quote] [media]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S8WK2TgruMo[/media] [url]https://news.vice.com/article/video-shows-israeli-army-executing-palestinian-after-alleged-stabbing[/url] Israeli PM now appears to be backpedaling on his condemnation after Israeli support for the act. [url]http://news.yahoo.com/netanyahu-defends-israeli-army-soldier-shot-wounded-palestinian-110410929.html?nf=1[/url]
No matter what [URL="https://www.hrw.org/news/2010/11/26/israel-soldiers-punishment-using-boy-human-shield-inadequate"]slap-on-wrist Israeli soldiers[/URL] routinely receive for their crimes (as they're primarily meant as "a show" for the international community) — there is no defense for this statement by the Israeli prime minister; the highest authority of Israel. [quote=Netanyahu]"Any challenge to the morality of the IDF (Israel Defence Forces) is outrageous and unacceptable," he said.[/quote] Yeah the [URL="http://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/News.aspx/205236"]IDF is the word's most moral army.[/URL]® Saying something like "Any challenge to the morality of the IDF (Israel Defence Forces) is outrageous and unacceptable," sounds like North Korean-tier propaganda. "Anything that challenges the pure morality and peacefulness of the mighty Korean People's Army is outrageous!!" [quote=Netanyahu]"The soldiers of the IDF, our children, maintain high ethical values while courageously fighting against bloodthirsty murderers under difficult operational conditions.[/quote] "High ethical values" He just shot a wounded, incapacitated man in the head. He was executed in cold blood. How is that courageous and worthy of ethical values? Netanyahu, in his usual North Korean-tier fashion— makes it sound like the solider single-handedly saved Israel from a terrorist attack and narrowly escaped death, in exchange for the lives of his comrades— when he decided to"courageously" pull the trigger. What is so courageous about killing an incapacitated unarmed man? Are we going to call him a war hero, too now? [quote=Netanyahu]"I am certain that in all cases, as in the current one, the inquiry takes into account all conditions. [B]We must all support the IDF chief of staff, the IDF and our soldiers[/B], who safeguard our security."[/quote] Even if they break the law.
[quote]While such assassinations are not everyday occurrences, Greenvald noted how "unconcerned" the soldiers in the video appear as their comrade calmly shoots Sharif dead.[/quote] ...could it be because he and his friend stabbed one of their comrades in the first place and caused this whole incident? Wait-- no, that makes too much sense.
Disgusting.
[QUOTE=Govna;50016512]...could it be because he and his friend stabbed one of their comrades in the first place and caused this whole incident? Wait-- no, that makes too much sense.[/QUOTE] If an American police officer summarily executed an unarmed civilian in private in revenge for killing one of their own police officer buddies (which did not happen in this case)— the world would go apeshit. If a Palestinian stabs— not kills— an Israeli solider. And then gets executed when he is unarmed and incapacitated— there is a certain category of people who will rush to defend their actions. Imagine the differences we would see here if he was an American police officer killing an unarmed civilian because he "attacked one of his cop buddies" For one, we wouldn't have an online petition garnering over 42,000 signatures calling for an award. [quote]An online petition meanwhile called on Netanyahu, Yaalon and Eisenkot to award the soldier, garnering more than[B] 42,000 signatures by Sunday afternoon.[/B] [B]"This soldier, an Israeli hero, had to shoot the terrorist dead to prevent even the smallest threat to his life and that of his comrades,[/B] therefore he should receive a citation and not be arrested," the petition read. "If you don't intend on doing so, we, the citizens of Israel, hereby award him the [B]Medal of Valour, Medal of Courage, and Medal of Distinguished Service[/B]," it read.[/quote] What effort it takes to shoot an incapacitated suspect. He deserves a medal. In civilized nations, when you kill someone or disarm them— you handcuff them. Even if you are 100% they are dead and have their brains splattered everywhere, you are still required to handcuff them. You don't "shoot them in the head" to make sure they are no longer a threat. This isn't a video game. And what's up with the Israeli-military fetishism we see rampant in Israeli society? Their number one radio station is literally called Army Radio. Those who dare to challenge the "morality" of the IDF are shunned because it is outrageous. People who execute unarmed and incapacitated civilians are paraded as "courageous" — Netanyahu says he is a courageous solider for pulling the trigger, and this large petition which has well over 42K signatures and it says he should be given the Medal of "Courage" What is so courageous about this incident? You can defend the guy killing an unarmed person in all you want— I get there may be some defenses in doing this— but what makes the incident so "courageous?" Why is he suddenly a war hero (in the eyes of their Prime Minister) that separates him from all the other soldiers in the IDF? What has he done that is more courageous than all of the other soldiers who actually did something that was courageous? Why does he deserve more credit? Israel's military-first society that fetishizes their military reeks of fascism.
[QUOTE=Govna;50016512]...could it be because he and his friend stabbed one of their comrades in the first place and caused this whole incident? Wait-- no, that makes too much sense.[/QUOTE] Doesn't mean a soldier has the right to execute a man who is plainly no threat to anyone any longer. A PROFESSIONAL soldier should not act like a thug, a murder, or a criminal.
[QUOTE=Govna;50016512]...could it be because he and his friend stabbed one of their comrades in the first place and caused this whole incident? Wait-- no, that makes too much sense.[/QUOTE] shows how morally bankrupt Israel supporters are when they hand wave summary execution for people who attack Israeli soldiers occupying their country.
[QUOTE=Starpluck;50016525]If an American police officer summarily executed an unarmed civilian in private— who even went as far as killing one of their own police officers (which did not happen in this case)— the world would go apeshit. If a Palestinan stabs— not kills— an Israeli solider. And then gets executed when he is unarmed and incapacitated— [b]people on Facepunch rush to defend them[/b]. Imagine the differences we would see here if he was an American police officer killing an unarmed civilian because he "attacked one of his cop buddies"[/QUOTE] That's not what I'm doing. He complained how they seemed "unconcerned". Well yeah, they probably do. One of their people was attacked and stabbed by this guy; killing him isn't going to mean a whole lot to them. Same thing with American police officers: if somebody attacks one of their own and kills them, you can pretty well bet they're not going to be feeling a lot of concern and sympathy for the killer. Or even if they just wound them, then again, the same is going to apply. More than anything, I'm annoyed that somebody who reports on violence somehow acts shocked and frightened when it happens. "THEY WERE UNCONCERNED FOR HIS WELL-BEING!" No shit. Doesn't take a genius to figure out [i]why[/i] they didn't show any concern for him. I love how you try and dramatize it as me "rushing to defend them" lol. [editline]27th March 2016[/editline] [QUOTE=kittykaty;50016535]Doesn't mean a soldier has the right to execute a man who is plainly no threat to anyone any longer. A PROFESSIONAL soldier should not act like a thug, a murder, or a criminal.[/QUOTE] Where did I say that he did? [QUOTE=Lamar;50016543]shows how morally bankrupt Israel supporters are when they support summary execution for people who attack Israeli soldiers occupying their country.[/QUOTE] Who's supporting this exactly? I haven't seen anybody here supporting it yet.
[QUOTE=Govna;50016512]...could it be because he and his friend stabbed one of their comrades in the first place and caused this whole incident? Wait-- no, that makes too much sense.[/QUOTE] That's still not a good excuse for [I]executing [/I]someone with no mercy.
[QUOTE=Govna;50016551] Who's supporting this exactly? I haven't seen anybody here supporting it yet.[/QUOTE] Right, my mistake. You hand-waved the crime instead. You don't have to look far to see support for this though, seeing that theres already a petition with over 42k signatures commending his action.
[QUOTE=Govna;50016512]...could it be because he and his friend stabbed one of their comrades in the first place and caused this whole incident? Wait-- no, that makes too much sense.[/QUOTE] So in the case of any form of protest in which the police have stuff thrown at them, the police should be allowed to take those which threw items at them and just basically gun them down against a wall. I'm sorry, but when exactly did it become okay to shoot a wounded and incapacitated man?
the other soldiers not showing any concern makes me think this happens all the time, there just happened to be a camera on this time
[QUOTE=Ninja Gnome;50016587]the other soldiers not showing any concern makes me think this happens all the time, there just happened to be a camera on this time[/QUOTE] They do this often. Even to children who pose no threat for "shits and giggles" Watch what happens when Israeli soldiers act with CNN's cameras unknowingly rolling. [media]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gy4WXsp34IU[/media] Notice how at 1:55 the IDF notices the CNN camera crew and tells their buddy's to wrap up before being caught. Imagine what happens off-camera, i.e. 96% of all Israeli violations. Israel's process of internally investigating their own claims are complete charade to the international community and as means to solely exonerate themselves. Note how in this video the Israelis say to international media that they were rubber bullets and not live ammunition. Israelis are trained well with how to cover up their own war crimes and present a different, deceiving face to the international community. It is only when these cameras are rolling do we get to see what truly happens in Israel.
He'll get a slap on the wrist and thats it.
I'm glad another terrorist is gone from this Earth as there is no place for scum like he is, however, [B]this is not a way to deal with people like him[/B].
Having lived in the middle east most of my life the issue surrounding these two states has been in the fray for far too long. I can't find myself siding with either of them and even though I know there is a precedent for indoctrinating the youth on this side of the fence with baseless shit I don't imagine it any differently on the other side. The blame doesn't lay with any particular race or religion. I personally believe that it lays with the British. The same people who invented terms to try and separate the Arabian Peninsula. The same people who divided up Africa and much of the world. The same people who invented India/Pakistan. Regardless with who the actual blame lays for such a disaster, a solution is badly needed because I'm sick of having read this shit in newspapers over the past 2 decades.
It's been speculated and talked about for weeks that Israel has simply been executing people during the recent stabbing attacks.
[QUOTE=icarusfoundyou;50016734]Having lived in the middle east most of my life the issue surrounding these two states has been in the fray for far too long. I can't find myself siding with either of them and even though I know there is a precedent for indoctrinating the youth on this side of the fence with baseless shit I don't imagine it any differently on the other side. The blame doesn't lay with any particular race or religion. I personally believe that it lays with the British. The same people who invented terms to try and separate the Arabian Peninsula. The same people who divided up Africa and much of the world. The same people who invented India/Pakistan. Regardless with who the actual blame lays for such a disaster, a solution is badly needed because I'm sick of having read this shit in newspapers over the past 2 decades.[/QUOTE] Britain is not even relevant anymore. I do not understand why people bring up the circlejerk of how "we must all unite and focus our attention and hate on the Britain" — it is beyond beating a dead horse. Britain has nothing to do with Israeli policy in the occupied territories anymore. They have been irrelevant for more than 68 years— why bother bringing them up? What are they going to solve in 2016? The responsibility lies with Israel, the occupiers— not the British. They are done and gone.
How classic of Jews to continually do shit like this. And people say its just me when I say there's a problem....
[QUOTE=Swebonny;50016798]How classic of Jews to continually do shit like this. And people say its just me when I say there's a problem....[/QUOTE] The problem isn't Jews. The problem is Israel. There are plenty of Jews who denounce Israel.
Swebonny is trying to make a point— if the shooter was an Islamist— we'd see an endless stream of posts discussing his religion and race and how this Middle Eastern problem is "plaguing the Western world" and how we must close all our borders to all Muslims before they violently murder all of us. These people would also bring up how this is now "becoming a problem" that people are "refusing to listen in on" And how it is now time to "address the problem" When another race, ethnicity or religion does it— no one notes these factors.
So anyway, to put things in context: the soldier in question was arrested and is being held [B]on suspicion of murder[/B]. The soldier and his family, who were trying to claim he suspected the Palestinian was wearing a bomb, were quickly disporoven by the IDF who confirmed that an officer already checked the man for a bomb and found none. They also made it clear that if there had been a bomb present the procedure would have been to get everyone out of the way and not to shoot anyone. The investigation also revealed that the "heroic" soldier only arrived on the scene minutes after the man was neutralized and calmly walked over to him and shot him. His facebook profile also reveales he's a supporter of several extreme right wing groups, who are obviously the ones trying to get him recognized as a hero while most of the rest of Israel pukes in the corner. Netanyahu's statement regarding supporting the IDF and the chief of staff ("We must all support the IDF chief of staff, the IDF and our soldiers") was kinda taken out of context by Starpluck. The IDF is now under attack by the Israeli extreme right for prosecuting the soldier, just as the chief of staff was a few weeks ago when he made a public statement to the effect that soldiers and the public should not fucking execute stabbers after they have been disarmed. Netanyahu and Yaalon, the Defense Minister, are actually clashing with the more right wing politicians in the Knesset over this.
[QUOTE=Starpluck;50016841]Pretty sure Swebonny is trying to make a point— if the shooter was an Islamist— we'd see an endless stream of posts discussing his religion and race and how this Middle Eastern problem is "plaguing the Western world" and how we must close all our borders to all Muslims before they violently murder all of us. These people would also bring up how this is now "becoming a problem" that people are "refusing to listen in on" And how it is now time to "address the problem" When another race, ethnicity or religion does it— no one notes these factors.[/QUOTE] While this is true, ironic shitposting is still shitposting, and most of the dumb cunts who say shit like that are too dumb to realise Swebonny is mocking them.
[QUOTE=Crhem van der B;50016714]I'm glad another terrorist is gone from this Earth as there is no place for scum like he is, however, [B]this is not a way to deal with people like him[/B].[/QUOTE] Attacking soldiers occupying your country isn't terrorism, neither does it make you "scum".
[QUOTE=Starpluck;50016841]Pretty sure Swebonny is trying to make a point— if the shooter was an Islamist— we'd see an endless stream of posts discussing his religion and race and how this Middle Eastern problem is "plaguing the Western world" and how we must close all our borders to all Muslims before they violently murder all of us. These people would also bring up how this is now "becoming a problem" that people are "refusing to listen in on" And how it is now time to "address the problem" When another race, ethnicity or religion does it— no one notes these factors.[/QUOTE] But that's a stupid point. If we talk of one religion/race and not the other, should we stop talking about either or shit talk both? Right now he's trying to stir shit with 2nd option and that's just low as fuck. Especially coming from a mod, that's kinda disgusting.
I don't know how much this is worth but [URL="http://www.irishtimes.com/news/world/middle-east/wave-of-sympathy-for-israeli-soldier-who-shot-injured-palestinian-1.2588923"]74% of all Israeli social media users[/URL] expressed empathy for the soldier. [QUOTE=ScumBunny;50016842]So anyway, to put things in context: the soldier in question was arrested and is being held [B]on suspicion of murder[/B]. The soldier and his family, who were trying to claim he suspected the Palestinian was wearing a bomb, were quickly disporoven by the IDF who confirmed that an officer already checked the man for a bomb and found none. They also made it clear that if there had been a bomb present the procedure would have been to get everyone out of the way and not to shoot anyone. The investigation also revealed that the "heroic" soldier only arrived on the scene minutes after the man was neutralized and calmly walked over to him and shot him. His facebook profile also reveales he's a supporter of several extreme right wing groups, who are obviously the ones trying to get him recognized as a hero while most of the rest of Israel pukes in the corner. Netanyahu's statement regarding supporting the IDF and the chief of staff ("We must all support the IDF chief of staff, the IDF and our soldiers") was kinda taken out of context by Starpluck. The IDF is now under attack by the Israeli extreme right for prosecuting the soldier, just as the chief of staff was a few weeks ago when he made a public statement to the effect that soldiers and the public should not fucking execute stabbers after they have been disarmed. Netanyahu and Yaalon, the Defense Minister, are actually clashing with the more right wing politicians in the Knesset over this.[/QUOTE] I believe the investigation has been neutered following defense from Israeli leadership. Military investigators will take Netanyahu's cue and the other Ministers' signals to not press chargers that are proportionate to his actions.
[QUOTE=Starpluck;50016898]I don't know how much this is worth but [URL="http://www.irishtimes.com/news/world/middle-east/wave-of-sympathy-for-israeli-soldier-who-shot-injured-palestinian-1.2588923"]74% of all Israeli social media users[/URL] expressed empathy for the soldier. I believe the investigation has been neutered following defense from Israeli leadership. Military investigators will take Netanyahu's cue and the other Ministers' signals to not press chargers that are proportionate to his actions.[/QUOTE] [URL="http://www.jerusalemonline.com/news/in-israel/local/majority-of-israelis-support-idf-soldier-who-shot-neutralized-terrorist-20081"]This[/URL] is the source for the 74% figure. They just measured a sample of current discourse on social media, not opinions in general. Sane people don't post about this. Only people who care about him do. As for the other point, again- Netanyahu as well as minister of defense Yaalon are [URL="http://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/.premium-1.711148"]actually defending the IDF and the chief of staff[/URL] in the face of attacks by right wing politicians and social media assholes. And if you think the legal system in Israel kowtows to politicians or the government, [URL="http://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/.premium-1.711141"]well[/URL].
[QUOTE=ScumBunny;50016974]And if you think the legal system in Israel kowtows to politicians or the government, [URL="http://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/.premium-1.711141"]well[/URL].[/QUOTE] I am talking in the context of Israel-Palestine, not other miscellaneous domestic issues. I am skeptical of the charges and punishment that will be levied on this solider— because like numerous allegations of solider misconduct— and while they all appear to undergo an investigation— soothing international concerns and other international observers— the outcome, long after anger and memory of the incident has evaporated— tends to usually be on the lighter side. I do not think you can deny the numerous Israeli soldiers who get away from crimes like these with minor punishments despite undergoing a highly-publicized investigation. Only time will tell what truly happens to him. [editline]27th March 2016[/editline] [QUOTE=Trebgarta;50017028]Idividual cases happen all the time, is there a [B]track record or statistics we can see on the Justice system's fairness[/B]? Not suggesting anything, just the fact that it would make a stronger argument.[/QUOTE] You are free to look up the punishments Israeli soldiers receive for war crime violations in the occupied territories. In general;[URL="http://www.theguardian.com/world/2005/nov/16/israel2"] you will not be happy with what you find[/URL].
[QUOTE=Starpluck;50017029]I am talking in the context of Israel-Palestine, not other miscellaneous domestic issues. I am skeptical of the charges and punishment that will be levied on this solider— because like numerous allegations of solider misconduct— and while they all appear to undergo an investigation— soothing international concerns and other international observers— the outcome, long after anger and memory of the incident has evaporated— tends to usually be on the lighter side. I do not think you can deny the numerous Israeli soldiers who get away from crimes like these with minor punishments despite undergoing a highly-publicized investigation. Only time will tell what truly happens to him. [editline]27th March 2016[/editline] You are free to look up the punishments Israeli soldiers receive for war crime violations in the occupied territories. In general;[URL="http://www.theguardian.com/world/2005/nov/16/israel2"] you will not be amused with what you find[/URL].[/QUOTE] Agreed, but a large part of why military courts tend to go more easy on soldiers is that it is often very hard to present hard evidence that a soldier acted with the intention to commit a crime and not in self defense or in a combat situation. Soldiers are, after all, people whose job description is pretty much only kill people/don't get killed. In a situation like this, where there is undeniable proof that the soldier was in no kind of danger I doubt the courts will be able to avoid throwing the book at him unless new evidence that changes the situation completely comes to light. In any case this has nothing to do with political pressure. Anyway, it's late. See y'all tomorrow.
Horrid, but this, nor the condoning of this sort of thing is exclusive to Israel In 2011 one British Royal Marine Sergeant Blackman executed a member of the Taliban his squad had captured, taunting his corpse by saying "shove off this mortal coil" or something like that. Point is, he was recorded and caught red-handed for it, with multiple witnesses. Long story short, he got charged for battlefield murder, but the outcry in his defence, for something that blatantly contradicted modern military protocol was huge. Mainstream newspapers like the express and the mail rallied people to his defence, you'll still see rightwingers point to it as "PC gone mad" and similar drivel Since 1945 British troops have notably fought in Korean war, the Suez Canal, Ireland, the Falklands, the Gulf War, Kosovo, Iraq, etc etc and you know how many times someone got charged for "battlefield murder" in all of those? Zero. 0. Nothing. Naught. According to records Blackman is the first person to be charged with battlefield murder since WW2. In fact, here's a [url=http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/law-and-order/11867114/Death-in-Helmand-Is-Alex-Blackman-murderer-or-merely-mortal.html]poll[/url] from the Telegraph at the time of the court martial going on last year: [img]http://puu.sh/nWe44/5476768a6b.jpg[/img] Israel gets caught out for doing this sort of awful thing a lot, but lets not kid ourselves and pretend the IDF is exceptionally evil or poorly regulated with battlefield discipline. Lets not pretend that Israel is the only westernised/1st world nation that is too forgiving of its military's conduct.
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