• Transphobia in Portland Woman's Shelter; Complaints that "he wasn't wearing makeup.. Just a man wear
    57 replies, posted
[QUOTE=slayer64;41652828]I know I'm gonna be rated Dumb for this, but there is only one way to get around these problems: If it's they're a woman, they stay. If they're a man, they leave. And I'm talking biologically, none of this "self-identifying" shit. If you have a dick, you're a man. Simple as that.[/QUOTE] It's not "as simple as that" and there are plenty of psychologists who can prove it to you if you are willing to learn.
[QUOTE=asteroidrules;41652804]Forgive my somewhat offtopic ignorance, but what's with the asterisks?[/QUOTE] Transasterisks are footnote designations that feel they should have been born superscript numbers.
[QUOTE=SgtCr4zyGunz;41652847]For god's sake this happens in every thread. If people are claiming to be trans to be perverts (which is absurdly rare by the way) then [B]kick out the people who are being perverts[/B]. There's no need to blanket all trans people because "people could be perverts!" You have to be a seriously dedicated pervert to crossdress, claim to be trans, claim to be a victim of abuse (to get in a women's shelter) just to get a peep of abused women. And how long can you keep up such a ruse without being found out? This shit is really not an issue.[/QUOTE] IIRC these trans* individuals constantly went to the shelter too. It's not like they would pop in just to stare at others for a day or two - they would be there regularly.
[QUOTE=slayer64;41652828]I know I'm gonna be rated Dumb for this, but there is only one way to get around these problems: If it's they're a woman, they stay. If they're a man, they leave. And I'm talking biologically, none of this "self-identifying" shit. If you have a dick, you're a man. Simple as that.[/QUOTE] there's an explicit difference between gender and sex. don't say "i'm not sure of this so don't quote me on it" stuff if you know you're gonna be poked for being wrong, [B]especially [/B]in a thread like this
[QUOTE=slayer64;41652828]I know I'm gonna be rated Dumb for this, but there is only one way to get around these problems: If it's they're a woman, they stay. If they're a man, they leave. And I'm talking biologically, none of this "self-identifying" shit. If you have a dick, you're a man. Simple as that.[/QUOTE] Actually. In situations as these, I fully agree. Unless if there has been an operation of some sort. Only females should be allowed inside women-only shelters, and males only in men-only shelters. This is the only way to prevent some random guy from just putting on a skirt/wig and dilly-dally in.
[QUOTE=Sokrates;41652916]Actually. In situations as these, I fully agree. Unless if there has been an operation of some sort. Only females should be allowed inside women-only shelters, and males only in men-only shelters. This is the only way to prevent some random guy from just putting on a skirt/wig and dilly-dally in.[/QUOTE] or maybe people shouldn't harbor a strong hate culture against transgendered peeps that makes them loathe themselves and feel snuffed out
I would just like to say that this entire situation is completely ridiculous.
Is there any research or reports that suggest that rapists are posing as trans* individuals in women's shelters? Surely, if we need to kick out trans* people, there should be enough evidence to prove that rapists are more common to pose as trans* women than trans* women are to attend a shelter. Plus, let's not forget that in most shelters, trans* women are actually being victimized [i]while looking for a safe space[/i] : [url]http://www.thetaskforce.org/downloads/reports/reports/ntds_full.pdf[/url] [quote] One-fifth (19%) reported experiencing homelessness at some point in their lives because they were transgender or gender non-conforming; the majority of those trying to access a homeless shelter were harassed by shelter staff or residents (55%), 29% were turned away altogether, and [b]22% were sexually assaulted by residents or staff.[/b][/quote] 1/2 of all trans* attendees are harassed, and nearly 1/4 are being sexually violated in areas that are intended to be a safe space for them. If that was a statistic about sexual abuse against cisgender attendees, women's shelters would be under scrutiny across the nation.
[QUOTE=Sokrates;41652916]Actually. In situations as these, I fully agree. Unless if there has been an operation of some sort. Only females should be allowed inside women-only shelters, and males only in men-only shelters. This is the only way to prevent some random guy from just putting on a skirt/wig and dilly-dally in.[/QUOTE] yeah because shelters that operate to protect women who are escaping dangerous relationships and situations will totally just let random people walk in
[QUOTE=Sokrates;41652916]Actually. In situations as these, I fully agree. Unless if there has been an operation of some sort. Only females should be allowed inside women-only shelters, and males only in men-only shelters. This is the only way to prevent some random guy from just putting on a skirt/wig and dilly-dally in.[/QUOTE] So how do ya suppose we check for that? [editline]31st July 2013[/editline] Also, what do you think goes on in women's shelters that would make a man want to do that?
I think shelters should be gender-neutral but have specialized staff, separate lodging, and even separate entrances for the people who would not otherwise feel safe in a gender-neutral shelter Hell even if it's a matter of physically dividing the building down the centre
[QUOTE=Zeke129;41654717]I think shelters should be gender-neutral but have specialized staff, separate lodging, and even separate entrances for the people who would not otherwise feel safe in a gender-neutral shelter Hell even if it's a matter of physically dividing the building down the centre[/QUOTE] [IMG]http://www.loc.gov/exhibits/odyssey/archive/08/0803001r.jpg[/IMG] I see no problems. [/sarcasm]
[QUOTE=Doctor Zedacon;41655010][IMG]http://www.loc.gov/exhibits/odyssey/archive/08/0803001r.jpg[/IMG] I see no problems. [/sarcasm][/QUOTE] The division Zeke is describing would be to give each gender the ability to get with problems related to their gender identity. Some people might have such a large problem they feel mentally unstable around the opposite side of the binary. I could see the problem if there was a women's only restaurant that didn't provide mental help or anything like that, but this isn't the case.
[QUOTE=FlubberNugget;41655028]The division Zeke is describing would be to give each gender the ability to get with problems related to their gender identity. Some people might have such a large problem they feel mentally unstable around the opposite side of the binary. I could see the problem if there was a women's only restaurant that didn't provide mental help or anything like that, but this isn't the case.[/QUOTE]Are you familiar with the idea that separate but equal is inherently unequal? So, this makes me wonder, would you be alright with transwomen being barred from using the same bathrooms as ciswomen?
Apples and oranges. I actually think Women's Shelters should be replaced with Gender and Identity related Clinics that offer treatment and help with problems for either and all genders, but still.
[QUOTE=Doctor Zedacon;41655010][IMG]http://www.loc.gov/exhibits/odyssey/archive/08/0803001r.jpg[/IMG] I see no problems. [/sarcasm][/QUOTE] lol Shelters as it stands now are gender-specific because after being abused by a man for years a woman might not feel safe around any men at all, or vise versa. You can't compare it to racial segregation for the purposes of making black people feel inferior.
when it comes to these shelters, feeling safe and comfortable is the most important thing
[QUOTE=slayer64;41652828]I know I'm gonna be rated Dumb for this, but there is only one way to get around these problems: If it's they're a woman, they stay. If they're a man, they leave. And I'm talking biologically, none of this "self-identifying" shit. If you have a dick, you're a man. Simple as that.[/QUOTE] good job making a ton of alts to pretend people agree with you
[QUOTE=slayer64;41652828]And I'm talking biologically, none of this "self-identifying" shit. If you have a dick, you're a man. Simple as that.[/QUOTE] I love it when people try to simplify human beings
Seperate but equal is only unequal when one group is given superior perks than the other because society actively asserts one group of people is deserving of superior perks. i.e. Even though men and women are not inherently equal in society, Men and Women's bathrooms are separate but equal because neither side is given a superior perk. Meanwhile, segregated facilities were not, because white facilities were clearly in better technological and infrastructural shape than facilities for people of color because of prevailing social beliefs that whites should be given superior treatment than people of color. [QUOTE=Zeke129;41654717]I think shelters should be gender-neutral but have specialized staff, separate lodging, and even separate entrances for the people who would not otherwise feel safe in a gender-neutral shelter Hell even if it's a matter of physically dividing the building down the centre[/QUOTE] This is a great idea for a lot of reasons, but there needs to be a lot of careful decisions in the process. On our colleges, though, we have gender-neutral bathrooms in the women-only dorms. They work perfectly fine and have no inequalities from the "segregated" bathrooms.
[QUOTE=Reimu;41655809]Seperate but equal is only unequal when one group is given superior perks than the other because society actively asserts one group of people is deserving of superior perks. i.e. Even though men and women are not inherently equal in society, Men and Women's bathrooms are separate but equal because neither side is given a superior perk. Meanwhile, segregated facilities were not, because white facilities were clearly in better technological and infrastructural shape than facilities for people of color because of prevailing social beliefs that whites should be given superior treatment than people of color. This is a great idea for a lot of reasons, but there needs to be a lot of careful decisions in the process. On our colleges, though, we have gender-neutral bathrooms in the women-only dorms. They work perfectly fine and have no inequalities from the "segregated" bathrooms.[/QUOTE] Gender neutral bathrooms are such a no-brainer I don't see the controversy If it's a gym where you're sharing showers with a dozen other people without stalls I kind of see the point of keeping them separate but so many bathrooms today are literally just a room with a single toilet and single sink.
There's definitely privacy concerns in some places, but they work extremely well - especially in areas which are already safe, such as women*-only dorms or support centers. Another good idea I've seen is two bathrooms that only say "with urinal" and "without urinal" on the front. It opens up a range of possibilities - from trans* individuals using the bathroom they're most comfortable with, to genderfluid individuals using the bathroom they have the most privacy in. Also, as for separation of shelters/centers based on gender, I think ideally we should be moving towards integration of cisgender and trans* gender under one roof. Which means trans* individuals should have the same facilities as cisgender individuals. Realistically, I'm not sure if we're ready for this. Cisgender victims sometimes have a hard time dealing with trans* victims for a lot of reasons. But, more importantly, shelters might not be ready because trans* women are often faced with serious harassment/assault when they attend shelters. Trans* individuals might have to create their own safe zone to protect themselves. Which is very sad.
Not even remotely surprising, to be honest. A battered womens' shelter is a place for women who have a lot to fear from men. While transwomen need a safe place, too, and an ideal shelter would provide haven for any and all people who needed it, it shouldn't be shocking that badly battered women would be extra-sensitive towards men, even if some of those men are undergoing or have undergone gender reassignment, and self-identify as female. This isn't transphobia, it's androphobia. The women aren't afraid of transgendered folk, they're afraid of men. And while transwomen may no longer identify as male, women in a delicate state of mind, and seeking refuge from any and all male influences while attempting to find themselves again, may not be able to make the distinction. If this were a shelter for basically anything else, I might be singing a different tune, but given the specific context, their position is understandable, if not necessarily ideal. [editline].[/editline] Bad reading. I thought this was specifically for a battered women's shelter, but I see now that it's primarily a shelter for homeless women. A bit less understandable, that, especially considering the degree of discrimination!
[QUOTE=chimitos;41652367]"Do you play basketball?" Literally every time I meet someone new.[/QUOTE] I always get asked between that or 'Do you play bass' every time I talk to new people because of my height and hair. I wish I could tell them off, but I do play bass :/
Why can't we just have shelters for everyone, with gender-specific areas? I mean sure, these women might feel unsafe around someone who for all intents and purposes (in this particular situation) Is a man, so why not make a trans* shelter area as well, that way everyone's happy.
[QUOTE=Tacosheller;41655675]good job making a ton of alts to pretend people agree with you[/QUOTE] Holy shit I thought you were joking but loads of the agrees are from accounts made at around the same time with 0 or 1 posts
holy crap didnt mean to bump this soz
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