• The Russia investigation isn't becoming less popular, just more polarizing
    34 replies, posted
https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/the-russia-investigation-isnt-less-popular-its-just-more-polarizing/
When Mueller ultimately recommends charges (thus: impeachment) against Donald Trump himself, we're going to be at a critical moment in US history. The GOP-controlled Congress has been aggressively angling to discredit this investigation and its findings. When push comes to shove, and the full weight of Trump's crimes are brought to public light, how Congress responds will be enormously consequential for the future of our country.
The only problem I can see with his report is that it will be so long and exhaustively cited that, in fact, it might work against itself because people won't be able to read it -- they'll only be hearing about reporting on it from news stations. It'll be absolutely critical that when the report comes out that the reporting on the report is absolute top-notch AAA world-class - because they're going to have to distill 3,000 pages of evidence and heavily cited law into a 5-15 minute segment.
The first step here is much smaller in scale than the entirety of the Trump-Russia criminal conspiracy. Mueller's team is apparently planning to first make their findings on the Obstruction of justice investigation examining efforts made by Donald Trump and his administration and congressional allies to halt this investigation. That's a much more digestible report, which will (with 99.99% certainty) absolutely crucify Trump from a legal standpoint, and likely several others within his immediate circle.
The last time I read the full legal ramifications of a thing is when the USA PATRIOT act was signed into law. I read it, top to bottom, every sentence - I suspect that I am one of maybe 40,000 other people in the whole USA who actually took the time to read the thing when not a legal scholar, politician, or a lawyer.
I may not be a law enforcement agent, but isn't the first rule of any report that you state your claim in one paragraph/page, then cite your sources and findings that led you to that point?
It's likely to start with boilerplate talk about when/why/where the SCO was founded, for what purpose, what it did in its investigation, how it comported itself, who it responded to, what guidelines it followed during its investigation, and then it'll talk about its findings, which are liable to appear in a huge list of law citations with appended notes on where further information on those charges can be found.
We already know exactly how Congress responds. The democrats want to impeach, the Republicans will toe the party line and won't do anything. Since the Democrats have literally no way to achieve the necessary two thirds majority in the Senate to impeach Trump, nothing will happen.
Then we need to occupy every federal, state, and local government building in the country and refuse to leave until Donald Trump resigns the office of the presidency and surrenders himself for criminal prosecution. Corruption of this magnitude cannot go unchallenged. At that point the potential danger of violence in the streets would be outweighed by the danger of tolerating a true tyrant in the most powerful government office on the planet.
Agreed. Refusing to impeach a president who stands accused of crimes which could feasibly include TREASON, with mountains of evidence collected on the back of the most critical Federal criminal investigation in US history to support those accusations, would be a dereliction of duty so severe and monumental that it would effectively mark the end of checks and balances on the corruption of power forever. The only appropriate response as a country is to shut it down. All of it. Everything. Let no facet of this country's government continue to function until order is restored among Congress. That'll be the only peaceful way to save this country. If we fail to do that, then we would rapidly descend to such a state that our only hope forward would be non-peaceful activities, and that's something that should be avoided by any means necessary.
I don't know. From what I've heard (and I pray its right) the scuttlebutt on the hill is that most moderate Republicans want to get rid of Trump (especially those in purple districts, or those who depend on foreign tourism) in a way where he can't run for president as an independent and fracture the party. A gilded ticket saying, "This albatross around your neck will be in prison for the rest of his life and be unable to split your vote" would be mighty appealing to a lot of them. Hopefully enough to push it over. The fact that they'd still have Mike Pence as a rubber stamp, and a wonderful distraction as they dismantle ACA and other noxious agendas, shouldn't be discounted either. In fact, Trump could be a useful scapegoat for any backlash against actions they take during proceedings.
Moderate Republicans are not even a voice in the party at this point. They fostered a deplorable voter base, just so they could hold on to power and keep their own taxes low, never for a second thinking about the impact that their short-sighted greed would lead to. Moderate Republicans no longer exist - and they only want to get rid of Trump because he's too toxic for their brand. Republicans have only succeeded on the federal level by acting in bad faith towards the tenets of democratic society. They have gerrymandered, suppressed votes, and pushed outright propaganda to infuriate their base just enough to get their votes. They've never had interest in representing their constituents and helping their communities - just winning so they can lower their taxes and bolster their businesses at the expense of the normal American. That's what Moderate Republicans are. They embraced this flirtation with fascism. At this point, "Moderate Republicans" are Republicans who won't stoop to falsifying votes to win. That's the line - whether they'll stand idly by while Trump paves the way for Russia to rig our elections. They've already used every other tactic on the table to mislead their communities and pilfer them for the pennies left in their wallets. They've pulled wedge issues out of thin air - climate change, abortion, guns, immigration, everything - just to create some false "moral majority" that they can use to mislead and propagandize their own constituents to vote against their best interests. Moderate Republicans have been petty thieves that have hijacked our democracy for decades. And now that the base that they created is taking control and pushing for white Christian fascism that is interfering with their businesses partners through idiotic trade disputes, they're looking for an escape. They built all of this because they knew their self-enriching policies would never succeed in a fair and free democratic competition - a free market of ideas - so they scrapped all that and lied and cheated to sculpt their own victory, and now they're complaining that the fascists they bred are ruining their expertly-disguised pillage of the American people through the destruction of labor rights, social welfare, community, public health, and everything else that actually matters to the voters. A Moderate Republican, as we would've defined it during Nixon's presidency, is a centrist Democrat. What we call a "Moderate Republican" in this day and age is nothing more than radical opportunists peddling the political lies of Reagan with a tenth of the conviction. Even the most left-leaning Republicans are self-enriching, anti-democratic opportunists who flirt with fascists.
"We didn't realize his campaign was compromised by the Russians, we would never have supported him had we known. Good thing we aren't involved in any way :-)"
"The president was merely a coffee boy at the RNC."
"Hillary would have been worse, at least we got the lesser of two evils"
This one won't work though because Paul Ryan is on tape laughing about Trump and another Republican senator possibly being paid off by Putin. They knew exactly what they were getting when he won the nomination.
"What tapes? :-)" *Deletes emails and throws hard drive into conveniently located vat of hydrochloric acid*
And what if does not resign... What then? Every day in which an occupation moves forward, right-wing media sources will demonize the occupiers for shutting down government functions. By about the end of the first three or so days, most occupations will have either ended peacefully, or the occupiers will have been arrested. Any group beyond this point will be given the same media treatment that the Oregon Refuge, MOVE, and NoDAPL, have all experienced. They'll eventually be drained of resources, and they'll surrender. This is the best case scenario for such a situation. Violence on the streets, violence against opposing political parties/views, ect... Is stupid. It will inevitably make Trump stronger, as he'll have full power to shut down the protests for the actions of a few. Any violence will lead too a domino effect. Be intelligent.
Where's the optimistic rating when you need it?
But what if that doesn't happen? What if the average american is too disillusioned, apathetic, and information overloaded to become the politically active force that would be necessary to mount such an opposition to forces that already have such significant levels of societal control and manipulatory capacity?
Then the world will watch USA burn down with a popcorn, and Russia will be in a front row.
Then democracy dies and America falls.
whoa be careful not to nick yourself on that edge kiddo
It's almost like your end goal is to destroy what little credibility you have left.
Can’t wait? Really?
Yes, we get it mister Putin, you have a facepunch account.
You used to have some plausible deniablity now you're just obvious
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yFNRlvEh7ok ???
For you being a russian, you seem to forget who quickly can this shit affect the rest of the world, the same way the collapse of the USSR bringt so many problems to the entire world even nowadays. Especially their weapon culture. Just imagine the nightmare is going to be for every single anti terrorist agency to control, let alone eliminate terrorists if the USA is plunged into total chaos. What good are the bad parts of USA being eliminated with the entire country going south if millions of innocents are going to suffer and die? Do you already forgot how terrible were the 90s for your people?
nah, i remember it damn well, and i remember world cheering up for it, pretending to care and then letting it all down. I do not wish for USA to completely repeat that process - being torn apart by foreign "sponsorship", horribly rewriten economics and then takeover with oligarchy and clericism imposted over population. If anything i wish something better would resurface from that havok, something far far different from what USA have become with it double standard to how it threaten the world and it's own people. Russia is a horrible country too but we simply have nothing left to dissolve, no generation to withstand any kind of revolutional fight with sober thinking and independancy from foreign benefactors. But if USA cracks, some crystal clean good can form.
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