Dressing up and acting like toddlers to own the libs?
I thought they already were though
You gotta have a masterrace IQ to understand
Excuse me what is the evidence that the violence part of Antifa suddenly worked?
There are several groups that identify as antifa, and a lot of them commit vandalism and violence. They are also so parallel to each other that this point is honestly rather irrelevant. It is true though that the anarchists are worse, but I don't find that very comforting.
And just debating them worked out so well.
The only time damage was ever done was when the neo-nazies crawled out and gave a face for people to recognize and hunt down, isolate from their communities and make sure they didn't feel welcome. As pointed out with Milo, people gathered information and basically laid out how Milo was basically a pedophile and through that, brought him to silence. However, that takes time and you need bodies and people to stand in front for those processes to take time. Or we could go back to the days of doxxing people just because we slightly disagreed with them. That was a fun time wasn't it.
Schroedinger's Neo-Nazi: So motivated, organized, and powerful that they represent a serious threat to American freedoms, while simultaneously so weak that an activist punching their leader is supposedly enough to destroy them, and all the while never having enough membership to fill a modest auditorium. Please ignore that the real Nazis engaged in lethal street fights daily, while these milksops give up if they think they're going to be yelled at- it undermines our neo-Nazi cheerleading to acknowledge them for the incompetent, impotent fuckups that they are.
Oh, please. Was it antifa groups that made NFP members defect to Tyndall's BNP? Or was it maybe antifa that convinced Thatcher to adopt more hardline anti-immigration policies, taking votes from the NFP? Were 'public figures' on the front lines at the Battle of Lewisham? Or are you just evading his question by citing 'massive push by antifa groups and public figures' in a historical event, when he asked for evidence that it was specifically violence that worked this time?
Man you never disappoint when it comes to bringing in the annoying contrarian takes.
No one's saying the nazi movement has been totally wiped out or whatever you're suggesting, it's simply that constant aggressive counter protesting has been very clearing causing fascist rallies' to diminish in number and attendance.
But yeah it's probably the cops protecting and guarding them that's causing them to be afraid. Or maybe it's the liberals wearing pink hats and holding signs of Trump sucking Putin's dick.
Who the fuck else would it be?
Nice way to downplay a serious threat. Its not just neo-nazies. They can go ahead and march and continue to lose people, money and time but the majority of it is now on the internet where conspiracy theories which are growing in power and are trending into the mainstream are where most of their efforts are being born. It was conspiracy and paranoia that got Trump the election and continues to wrack the Conservative wing into constant states of near on meltdown while our country suffers from a flood of foreign powers taking advantage of our fractious nature right now by funding right wing groups, militia groups and more who in their desperation as a response to the strength of the left's gains in recent years, are turning to fascist elements.
Neo-nazies are only one fascist group, to pretend otherwise and solely focus on them is something you should avoid doing.
That's exactly what I said on the first page, so what are you disagreeing with? People are worried over wildly speculative scenarios of neo-Nazis gaining power when the reality is that we're already in the middle of a quasi-fascist takeover that has nothing to do with them. Neo-Nazis aren't a credible threat, and it's ridiculous and counterproductive to exaggerate them into a boogeyman while Trump, the increasing extremism of his party, and the casual white supremacism underpinning Republican policy are actual real problems right now.
If antifa is going to claim that making a lot of noise and punching their leader was all it took to crush neo-Nazis back into hiding, then it's a tacit admission that they were never strong to begin with and certainly not worth the continual fearmongering about them.
Are you just not reading this thread or anything on Twitter or what?
newsflash: anti fascism actions include things other than violence
I made the claim that you require all elements on the table to successfully prevent a fascist ideology on the table. Fascism doesn't respond to compliance, nor does it comply with non-violent intervention. There are nonviolent methods but for many of us they're just as unsavory as the in your face physically approach.
You need to make them feel isolated and outside of the group, forcing them to realize thats not how our society functions and the only way to do that is to out them in the open or reveal them in their hiding places. But to act as if any of these methods, both non-violent or violent are savory is ludicrous as we can tell with things like the recent Infowars bans. You're essentially saying that non-violent approaches work against fascism when history and the patterns of fascist governments would beg to differ.
If you want to play semantics, at least read what I've written.
When I talked about damage I was quite specific about vandalism, because antifa does destroy a bunch of public property and they do get a lot of bystanders hurt. Also lol nobody gathered and laid out information on milo like a yugioh episode he fucking did it himself in one interview and blew it wide open.
Leave the forceful approach to someone trained in making a measured response, like the police. Counterprotests are essential but they didn't need to be so violent or directionless in their violence.
You know sometimes "Beating" can sometimes be used as a figure of speech?
I know its difficult to discuss antifa since they are so decentralized and without leadership such that their groups may have different goals. However, I and others have pointed out that the small segment of individuals that simply attack those completely unrelated to the protests aren't helping anything. Frankly they just end up as a "gotcha" talking point for the alt right to dismiss the whole movement.
The people who do shut down the neonazis are the ones who march peacefully (or at most only do self defense). Those are the ones the public remembers and will spread the message against facism
actually the public prefers to remeber the violent ones, cause they are the ones media mroe interested ot report about.
Misworded the idea I was trying to express there, but yeah thats largely true.
Maybe I've missed a post in the thread, in which case feel free to point it out, but as far as I've seen no one is claiming that antifa deserves full credit for the diminished numbers. All that this shows is that antifa's active resistance has not bolstered the nationalist movement's numbers as many claimed that it would.
Jeez, all this for 40 cunts
Seeing as how a decent number of the dipshits lost their jobs when their employers found out, one could say that's not far from the truth, I guess?
Just one thing though: all violence at political protests is retarded
If you support physical violence at protests, even if its against the far right, all you'll do is attract people like Bike Lock Cunt
Excuse me when has peaceful protest ever worked. all the revolutions in the world involved peaceful protesters wanting some form of democracy getting massacred and then being used as a focal point for taking up arms against the government. History has shown that as long as the protest is peaceful and as long as the government doesn't over react nothing will happen.
What antifa does is cut out the middleman, Mayors and the police know this and the mere presence and reputation of antifa is usually enough to keep them in line otherwise they'll have to deal with mob rule while also looking real bad on the news when riots break out. When antifa shows up and wrecks the place it's because you provoked them to form a mob in the first place.
That bike lock cunt has a name, sweaty
Yeah, if you're going for a total revolution you're going to need violence. If you're trying to effect change though in society, you need to actually make society like you and not just go, "Wow, they're violent idiots, I don't know nor care what their cause is because I don't want to be associated with violent idiots."
Correct me if I am wrong, but what about many of the protests of martin Luther king jr and other similar protests of the civil rights era? The sit ins, and bus rides? To be clear, the objective of those protests weren't to just hold hands and sing kumbaya, but rather to protest peacefully, and if they get attacked by racists, have such events recorded by the media and then spread across all televisions across america, showing the true ugly face of racism front and center. Hell I have particular admiration for the little rock 9, a group of black kids that were integrated into a forcefully desegregated all white school in the south. (I would really spend time reading it and especially just looking up images, the hell these kids went through is breathtaking).
And my point of view is that when certain small minority individuals, when claiming to be part of antifa or some liberal group, go out and cause violence not for some cause, but just because they can, and wind up getting recorded and shared around alt-right circles, thats not a good thing for the image of the whole movement. Please understand, I am not dismissing all of antifa or something, I know very well the threat neonazis bring, but we must not accommodate those that only want to cause a ruckus.
The way I see it is that this is largely a game of public perception now. We need to stand together to remind everyone why we fought a god damn war against the nazis only a few decades ago, and I do believe we can achieve that without giving the alt-right free ammunition.
If you want a more recent example of protests I support, I would look at this march itself actually. A huge swarm of people making Nazis feel unwelcome.
I typed this at 1 am and I based a lot of my statements off of general facts I learned in public school. Since I know the USA's teachings in schools can be a bit biased, feel free to point out specifics, I'll address them in the morning.
Bingo. They realized this early on, that at the end of the day its all about image. The just nature of a cause won't win you anything, you have to play a manipulative game. You have to make other people see you as a victim. Its what the alt-right did for a while, aided by the like of Billy Bike-Lock Brainless on the previous page. They made themselves look like victims and that made people sympathize with them. The civil rights era protestors realized, and its discussed very plainly in the speeches and communications within civil rights groups that they knew they were going to be attacked and that they had to stay peaceful and take it because otherwise they'd look like the bad guys, destroy their credibility, and justify actions against them. They'd be gain temporary justice at the cost of long term progress.
Martin luther jr sure did call for peaceful protests. Didn't help that he was assassinated and all of the sudden several southern cities were on fire going through a race war that wouldn't be quelled for a few weeks. Nor did it help that Malcom X preached about creating a black ethnostate or the fact that the southern governments were not willing to compromise in any way either.
Strange you should mention the little rock 9 though when the national guard had to be called in to not only hold back the crowd of protesters from quite likely killing the children but also to escort each of the black students during the school day. Rifles in hand. This is one of the strange moments where the government is more progressive than the protesters but even then it absolutely did not solve the desegregation in schools problem.
White people just up and left to other communities or put their students in financially divided schools of which case black students couldn't join due to the new deal fucking their parents out of any sliver of opportunities they could have had after the war effort. Not to mention Eisenhower's highway plans were used as an excuse to buy and destroy "unsightly neighborhoods" which forced the poor and blacks who owned these houses to live on the streets.
Antifas public perception of being a bunch of looters and thugs is their strength, when it comes to antifa it's about preventing the mob from coming out rather than dealing with the messy aftermath in the first place.
the rest I'd agree with but yeah U.S. schools really white wash it.
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