• Thoughts on the holy grail...
    11 replies, posted
Often times I like to come here just to speculate and share thoughts and ideas with other Rust-heads. Today I'd like to discuss wipe-less Rust. What do you think are the current obstacles to running a huge proc-gen map that never dies? What do you think would make it break or suck? What would you want to get out of that game experience? There has been some talk about islands as a way to expand territory through exploration. I think that is a good direction. Thoughts?
the current obstical is the need for game changing updates. if the game was at it's final form then wipeless rust would be possible, the Holy Grail bit is them saying it would most likely be their Final update.
the main obstacle, imho, is the huge difference in equipment between newcomers and players that started early on. Or between newcomers and clans/groups. Mix in lack of resources or cover mid to late game. A wipe-less RUST? I like the ideea but first exclude semiautomatic and automatic weapons. Just that.
I personally don't see how a wipe-less rust will work. There comes a point where everyone hits the ceiling in terms of what is available in play. Most servers die off a few days before the end of the week because many have already hit the tier 3 end-game and get bored when it ends up bring only pvp at the end. Without a reset, there would be no way to enjoy early game after a few days. I feel like a server that doesn't wipe on a weekly/biweekly schedule will be dead after a short bit.. Wipes give people reason to start over, to try new base-building set-ups. To me, wipe-less RUST would be stagnant and grow boring quickly. Takes a week or less (depending on activity/group size) to BP everything. Once you BP all the high-tiered stuff and PVP for a few days, what else is there to do?
I love the idea. I think it should of been designed this way from the start and they could have worked out so many issues by now. The sooner they start the better imo. I think wipeless servers go hand in hand with connecting servers so users can teleport between a group of servers. But I don't want to derail the topic and it's not absolutely required to make wipeless servers work. To make wipeless servers work, maybe you could limit users to one or two bases by limiting them to one or two cupboards. They can always move their base or create a new one but they'd have to destroy the old one first that's all. You could make bases saveable and rebuildable so that the game can be updated but player bases can be rebuilt and perhaps even moved if the map is updated. I've played mmo's for years that were updated but those updates never affected my characters. Of course I didn't have a base on the map. The point is they need to get to a point where they can update while saving a player's progress. Perhaps using a locking and reserving system if a base has to be removed, the area can be locked and reserved. Another option is to keep the wipe/update system but to save player's progress and refund all their resources and give them a limited time to secure them after each wipe. Kind of like a unkillable period after each wipe. But these are just ideas of the top of my head and I see problems with my own ideas so you don't have to rip them apart people. But the problems the solutions create can often also be solved. It's not always a single solution fix. The bottom line is that the solution requires a lot more thought and planning to really figure out so there would have to be a huge show of support for any chance of it being done. So mostly all I want to say is I love the idea.
I was thinin of something similar. Remember, one of the things on the roadmap is the players have the option of "finishing" a server's storyline, or finding a way off the island. This leads to a few theroies. One is that severs won't wipe, but players will reset themselves. Basically, a player manages to leave the island. What happens to that player? Does that player appear on another island shipwrecked or crash land? The lost everything and "hit there head" and forgot most of their blueprints? Or is it that player's character is never seen again and the player gets to play as new character that looks completely different? This way, the sever is wipe-less, but the player is wiping themselves.
I think a wipeless Rust would be amazing. To achieve this, i believe they should harness their new AI to create a cyclical "natural wipe". 1 - Everyone spawns on a deserted island, such is how Rust is now. 2 - There are multiple other islands that are flooded with Scientists, but contain higher and better resources 3 - As people gear up, they move to these other islands in search of better gear, but must face harsh backlash from the scientists. 4 - When more and more people get settled on the new islands, the Scientists start to move to the previous island, bringing along destructive forces like the Hele, APC, etc. 5 - The old island is fought for, but ultimately the new island is the new "wipe" 6 - People could continue living on the old island, but must sneak around/defend from the Scientists this whole cycle would play out depending on how to players value pursuing better loot, or defending old bases. This also locks progression through more natural means, like fighting harder threats, instead of relying on grinding for items like scrap.
Thanks for sharing feedback. I'm interested in a wipeless Rust so long as the mechanics make sense. Aside from expanding the world size I think economy would be a good way to spread out the gameplay for a long haul. Then it would be all about balancing faucets with sinks. The economy in current Rust is simple, just bartering. Part of the reason I like the re-intro of BPs is that they encourage trade. I think the addition of shops felt like the devs were trying to point players into a economy game-play direction. Many players took to task and ran with shops though I think it hit a ceiling pretty fast in terms of gameplay profundity. Modded servers have played around with currency but generally seems tacked on and not conducive to the Rust game world. I think there is an opportunity right under our noses to expand the game in a scalable way. Just on a rant here, but what if there was a deeper economy to the game that just can't be accessed by starting players. Early players can play Rust as in, but you need to invest into a strategy in order to unlock access to the 'next round' so to speak. What if the early players kept doing their thing, solo/team resource collection and minor base building, but then bands and clans or awesome solo players can hold down, and eventually get their own transportation (boats, heli, car, etc.) and access to a new network of players who are playing the game on a higher level. Introduce 'RustNET', sophisticated market trading, manufacturing, moving shit around and running missions for whatever tokens of value/currency, bottlecaps, who knows. Just some of my own thoughts, feel free to add, subtract, point out flaws, etc.
They have thrown around the idea of traversing the sea around the island to connect to other islands. I could definitely see multiple islands lead to one Higher Level island with better resources to fight for.
This is the update that is either the total game changer or total game breaker for Rust and I really hope the devs get it right. The biggest problem for myself and the group I play with right now is time needed in order to enjoy and experience the full extent of Rust. As it stands right now, pretty much every server I've played on lasts a week max even if it is monthly wipe. Even if servers don't specify a week, the reality is the vast majority of them are active only for this period and it means that the bulk of players only get to experience the first half of the game (build a starter base and do a bit of farming). By day 7 you are either wiped out or there is nobody else on the server. Why does this happen? Well the main culprit seems to be offline raiders. You'll get a handful of players who can spend the entire day cleaning out the map. Since I've started playing I've made it my main goal to counter off liners because i know its killing the servers. While i'm not against offline raiding something needs to be done to either make it more difficult or make it less attractive to the ones who are doing it.
I really like that base blueprint idea. It could be an overlay of wire framed building pieces shown only when your plan is out so you could easily place the blocks in the right spot.
Hmmm..that is an interesting idea of having islands have differet tiers. I have heard it before, but yours actually seems a lititle more thought out. Having isands be tier specific would make the exerprience of "reaching the ak" much longer, but make the weapons that more enjotable when you recieve them. Such as on the first island the highest weapon you can get is the pipe shotgun and the revolver. However, this presents some issues. Many players in Rust love the feeling of getting their hands on an AK within the first hour they are playing. It could be either through trading, skills, or pure luck. Another issue is that if the first island is only tier 1 wespons and equipment, it maybe get borrowing very quickly. In order to get rude of this, more epuupment, tools, close and weapons would need to be added for either tier. That would require a large amount of work.
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