ApolloLegend may be caught in legal dispute after recording Billy Mitchell & co.
259 replies, posted
Well there's not really any ~legit source~ and until Apollo himself finally appears again and confirms it this is still technically a rumor, but FUCK IT there's no rules sticky in SH anymore so here we go. This has been the biggest clusterfuck of gaming drama since, well the Todd Rogers shitstorm lol, so I'll try and summarize it all for everyone not up to speed:
SO you may remember this news thread from several months ago Billy Mitchell, King of Kong, has had his Top DK Records removed..
Basically what happened, was the official Donkey Kong arcade community striped Billy (former DK world record holder and that goofy hot sauce guy from 'The King of Kong movie') of all of his records after they discovered his recent world record gameplay recordings were actually done on an emulator, despite him claiming it was an original arcade. Here's a handy chart FBX made over on the TG forums recently
basically it came down to how the game rendered metal beams on the screen while loading lol.
the DK community was quick to render its decision, but then next up to bat was good old TwinGalaxies. Just like with the Todd Rogers dispute, they proceeded to take their sweet time exploring every single possibility that might lead to an arcade machine showing footage that looks like an emulator. It's been a relentless shitshow ever since as insane amounts of evidence continue to still get compiled. Billy refuses to ever take part in the forum debates, and instead friends of his show up every now and then and make posts/pm's or absurdly long videos arguing points nobody is really making or just give super improbable hypotheticals, all the while ignoring the indisputable evidence people make lol. It's even gotten to the point where one of the previous world record holders for Donkey Kong, tired of them refusing to address any of their points, straight up issued a $1000 bounty to anyone that can just explain one single aspect of Billy's record videos
so far nobody has taken it lol. Anyways, the drama is never ending so IN COMES APOLLO_LEGEND with a video talking about the early days of the dispute
people get a good laugh and it gets a million views and it seems like that's the end of it. But TwinGalaxies still hasn't made a resolution, Billy's friends are still spewing bullshit, so Apollo finds a possible next step to covering this drama with some of his own ~exclusive info~ in the form of a live arcade event that Billy and his friends were set to attend. Apollo announces he's gonna show up and they all agree to meet, talk it out, and see all of Billy's evidence. And ofc just to make things even funnier, he shows up dressed as Billy Mitchell
Apollo also shows up with a friend of his, and this friend apparently records the entire event
but perhaps the biggest revelation (that we know of at least) comes from the supposed fact that Apollo got Robert Childs, one of Billy's friends and star of the famous board swap video apollo discusses in his last video, to apparently admit that the whole video really was staged
and that's when it all goes to shit. Those tweets above are the last anyone hears from Apollo lol. He's gone silent on his discord, twitter, youtube, everything. Needless to say the video never got posted to his channel. Flash forward to March 15th, and some really cringey writer from TwinGalaxy's wonderful editor team puts up an article breaking the news (while also getting shit wrong since apollo did not sneak into the event lol, and making it clear he really doesn't like apollo)
The rumor that attorneys have become involved comes from an anonymous
source, but the confirmation comes directly from Robert Childs, owner of
the Arcade Game Sales business that the event happened in. While he
kept it brief in an email correspondance , Childs said "Yes Apollo did
break numerous laws that night and he is currently learning what a good
attorney is capable of."
the very same person that Apollo got to confess on tape has now announced Apollo is in deep shit. And why exactly?? Well
Although Kleisath's impression was positive, multiple
anonymous sources paint a different picture. He was strapped with hidden
audio, while someone else, unnamed, took "Several GBs" of video.
This is an issue since recording without consent from both parties is kinnnnda illegal in Florida. So now it's an issue of if he actually had their permission to record and if he really was wearing 'hidden audio' equipment lol. At the same time tho, they could just be going into panic mode because Apollo recorded them confessing to one of their many pieces of 'evidence' that Billy isn't a cheater in fact being total bullshit. Who knows, but it's been a day and a half since this news went out and STILL no word from Apollo, so yea, i think it's safe to assume this rumor is probably legit. Also, this is coming from Billy who tried to sue Regular Show once over a parody of himself appearing in their cartoon lol, so it's not hard to imagine them trying the legal route again. lots of discussing is also taking place on reddit atm if you want to read more.
hooray for fuckin' nerd drama.
I'm amazed how these people are actually willing to drag each other to court. Then again, I suppose I shouldn't be surprised. Billy's entire claim to fame are those records. Having them invalidated/revoked would pretty much ruin his reputation.
Still - for fuck's sake, do these people not realise that their refusal to address the accusations only makes them look more guilty? This entire clown fiesta wouldn't be taking place if they weren't trying to hold fake records.
right, im undeleting this now. I typed this before sleeping last night but deleted it after i saw google news gave the TwinGalaxy article this rumor originates from a 'satire' tag, so I thought maybe this was just a joke article and nobody realized it. I mean it sure is a horribly written article. Turns out tho google news just gives everything coming from TwinGalaxy's news section a satire tag lol. How fitting.
The Twin Galaxies article kinda reads like satire to me, so much negative bias against Apollo, it's unreal.
I was wondering why Apollo went dark.
Just waiting for this dude to have his head become disembodied from his body and declare himself as Garrett Bobby Ferguson Sr.
yes im aware he was based off of this guy
lots of updates
first off, to people bewildered about the ridiculously angry tone in that TG article, it should be noted that Apollo_Legend has pretty much made it his mission to trash TG's already struggling reputation in a future video he's been promising for awhile. He's not exactly on their good side lol, and just before vanishing he posted this rather odd tweet implying TG was getting ready to cover for Billy and declare him innocent, based off of, uh, something??
good grief lol. But yeah it's no surprise that TG editor used this legal drama shit as a chance to just try and trash Apollo instead as much as possible. tho the end result is just cringey as fuck..
also things are finally rolling over at TwinGalaxy, as a date has been set for this whole dumb discussion to finally be put to rest
they'll be presenting all their evidence as well which should be interesting. Jace went out and got his hands on a $10,000 peice of equipment that'd allow him to analyze every single frame of Billy's world record VHS tapes in the highest quality possible and without damaging the tapes themselves. and contrary to what Apollo was speculating, it seems they're gonna be finding Billy guilty after all.
and lastly, because this entire ordeal has been such a HUGE clusterfuck, Omnigamer, the guy that took down Todd Rogers by proving his dragster score was totally impossible, has just now released a 30 MINUTE video explaining all of the evidence so far
good grief what a huge mess this has all been. and still no word yet from Apollo.
It's a weirdly good thing that emulators have imperfections and inaccuracies like this. If it weren't for software oddities like this Billy possibly could had been forever untouchable.
MAME is way more accurate now, though. The artifacts that are shown are only from some specific versions.
this guy gets it
jesus i didn't know there was so much more to this outside the videos, really going down swinging lmfao
I would question why people would go to such lengths to hide their cheating, but I'm figuring that to these guys it's their way of life.
Billy is an egomaniac literally, and secondly this is also literally, his livelihood. The man makes his living off of these records, so of course he's going to fight everything by literal hook and literal crook, literally, because the alternative is spending your twilight years as a broke ass cheat/liar.
also btw this past Friday and Saturday were the days that the big annual Kong-Off took place, where pro donkey kong players show up to compete -live- and see who can get the most points. Billy was there. The whole "If billy can break a million live then he must be legit" argument can pretty much fuck off now since Bill showed up and only managed around 818k, and didn't even make top 8. Oops!
The sad part is, there will still be idiots defending him no matter how concrete proof you show them that Billy is a lying hack. Hopefully they will tear his records down and label him a filthy cheat, the records belong to those who deserve it not to those who cheat to get there
might as well keep posting updates for the billy dispute here. we're finally nearing the end of this drama anyways.
team billy has apparently latched on to a new defense: the 'girder finger' shown above does not happen on versions of MAME around at the time of some of Billy's scores, therefore Billy is innocent. But OOPS less than 24 hours after this claim started circulating, it got shut down. tl;dr: the reason it doesn't show in these older versions of MAME is because it wasn't until later versions of MAME that the emulator was set by default to display at the arcade accurate refresh rate of 60.60. HOWEVER, if you enable cheats and then manually set these old versions of MAME to the arcade's refresh rate, suddenly they all display the finger girder. Meaning all Billy would've had to do was be aware the refresh rate was wrong, turn on cheats, and change it himself in an attempt to more closely match arcade gameplay. In doing so, however, the finger girder appears. shout-outs again to former WR holder Wes Copeland for revealing this from a ~secret source~
more goofy shit happened at the Kong Off on Sunday. Billy and his defenders all held a little panel of sorts for everyone in attendance, where they again echoed all the irrelevant or just wrong points of their defense videos, and hammered on about the now-refuted MAME version difference proving billy's innocence lol.
boy that must be awkward that their new prize defense got ripped up so quickly lol. and yeah they really seem hell bent on spreading as much misinformation on this shit as possible.
~still no sign of Apollo~
Apollo's probably gotten in touch with a lawyer, which has advised him not to make any comments about it for now.
nice write-up, no surprise twin galaxies is dragging their heels again
unlike the todd rogers debacle which really had no excuse to drag so horrendously, this time they really do have a reason to be as absurdly thorough as possible: Billy and co are going around spreading total bullshit about how innocent he is, and, as this thread shows, Billy has a history of suing his detractors. They really do need an iron-clad case this time, so I'm not even remotely surprised as the lengths they've gone. For instance, take a look at post 1453 here
this is the roughly $10,000 equipment Jace is using to analyze the tapes frame-by-frame. They're not fucking around lol.
yeah thanks for writing this all up, this is such a bizarre story and I'm glad I'm seeing it unwind at this point. The ride really never ends with Billy, he's gonna struggle till the end.
ohh I somehow missed that it was the TG dude doing the analysis, seems like they're doing a decent job on trying to redeem themselves
also that vhs equipment is dope
after the absolute incompetent handling of the dragster record and how the twin galaxies name was dragged through thicker mud than it was already going through, it's no wonder jace hall is trying to be as transparent as possible with what he's doing to get a good standing.
I had completely forgotten that Twin Galaxies was a thing until all of the recent drama, I thought Speedrunslive had completely killed their relevance.
Postal bringing up the TG shit since Todd Rogers has been some of my main entertainment for the past few weeks. I never knew this was such a drama-filled goldmine.
For all I've seen, TG is just a fucking cesspool of circle-jerking with a few stirring the pot in the name of factual shit. I'm loving keeping up with this shit, lmao.
SRL and SDA are pretty dead at this point as well. Things have shifted more towards individual communities in (primarily) Discord and leaderboard sites such as speedrun.com.
Slightly offtopic but using TG's forum after spending over a decade on FP nearly caused me a brain aneurysm. They recently updated it to be less shit but during the Todd Roger fiasco it was neigh unreadable.
And some of the posters there are completely inept it seems. Like this dude, RTM, seemed to be incapable of figuring out how to properly quote people thus turning his posts in huge paragraphs. At least he smart enough to at least format his posts for readability. Then there is a guy, JT_Defender I think it is, who posts with every single word capitalized and it makes reading his posts a fucking nightmare.
Also, I do have an account on TG so if anyone wants me to post attachments or anything like that I can. Unfortunately you need an account to view attachments on TG.
Back ontopic, I was browsing the dispute thread looking at the posts in Postal pics and look what I found:
Looks like GameInformer jumped the gun! Actually it's more likely that the idiot researching this confused Donkey Kong Forums removal of Billys Scores for TG removing Billy's scores.
I can't get over how like, unstable most forums are. I'll give our community a lot of shit, but my god, so many forums have these absolutely out of their mind lunatics that are ready to aggressively defend or aggressively hate on something for which they have no basis to do so.
It made places like NeoGaf completely unbearable. You want to see a forum that was basically unreadable half the time? There you go, people ready to tell you game is shit because one menu looks weird, or to insult you because you didn't think this universally derided piece of gameplay wasn't the best thing ever.
twin galaxies is still relevant because of hi-score runs since there isn't another site that tracks that sort of data, and speedrun.com doesn't have support for it.
it's sort of like how twitch is shit because there's no competition so they have no motivation to get better.
o god they printed the 'not my tapes' excuse lmao.
yeah i should probably explain that one. When this whole ordeal started, the first thing TG did was try to track down Billy's VHS record tape(s). The main record in question, 1,062,800, (which Billy gave a big nerdy press conference over and is one of the reasons the entire debate started when people realized the TV screens showing Donkey Kong footage and featuring Billy's new record score at the conference were actually from an Emulator), was nowhere to be found and supposedly was never even fully turned over to TG. It still has not been turned over although Billy insists TG has it and if they can't find it, it's there fault. Instead tho, ex-TG employee Dwayne Richards discovered he did have tapes of Billy's two record scores from before that one, mixed in with several other record tapes from other people that he'd been holding onto. He quickly turned them over and the ball got rolling.
So in comes Team Billy with their first golden excuse: "no those aren't my tapes". All the youtube uploads and the VHS tapes were not actually his games despite having his scores. It got even nuttier than that IIRC when someone on Billy's defense team instead declared that Dwayne, evil criminal mastermind he is, must have fabricated the tapes by recreating Billy's games on an emulator in an attempt to frame him because he's a big ol meanie....
needless to say they gave up on that excuse fast when it was pointed out how much ridiculous effort would be needed to do that and get a game with the same score as Billy's in such a short period of time, and that this excuse still didn't explain the Donkey Kong footage shown at Billy's world record press conference which clearly showed MAME footage and had Billy standing right fucking next to it. Looks like GameInformer is a little late to the party, or just had written that particular article awhile ago.
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