• Elon Musk Calls Transit Expert 'An Idiot' and Says Public Transport 'Sucks'
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[QUOTE]Tesla CEO Elon Musk went decidedly low-brow in an exchange with transportation experts on Friday, following reports of comments in which Musk called public transport a “pain in the ass” and suggested the subway was a great place to bump into a murderer. The fracas began when Wired on Thursday published comments made by Musk at an artificial intelligence conference earlier this month. Musk said that “public transport is painful. It sucks. Why do you want to get on something with a lot of other people, that doesn’t leave where you want it to leave, doesn’t start where you want it to start, doesn’t end where you want it to end?” Musk further said that using public transit meant rubbing shoulders with “like a bunch of random strangers, one of who might be a serial killer. . . that’s why people like individualized transport, that goes where you want, when you want.” [/QUOTE][URL="http://fortune.com/2017/12/16/elon-musk-public-transport/"] Article Source[/URL] [URL="https://www.wired.com/story/elon-musk-awkward-dislike-mass-transit/"]Source on Musk's comments[/URL] [URL="http://humantransit.org/2017/07/the-dangers-of-elite-projection.html"]Article by public transportation expert in response[/URL] [media]https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/941500121564332032[/media]
musk should try living in portland for a few months
Since it's basically impossible to edit OP anymore, here's the follow up tweets. [IMG]https://my.mixtape.moe/ddkdxj.png[/IMG]
I mean to play devils advocate, Musk isn't saying that public transport itself sucks as much as he is saying the way public transport as it exists now sucks. If you asked an average person whether they'd prefer a bus or train, or a self driving car just for them and their party, most would probably choose the latter. Public transport just isn't that advanced yet sadly.
Billionaires and public transport don't mix well. Particularly if one is a celebrity like Musk, so he hardly speaks for the all of us.
[QUOTE=spiritlol;52984299]I mean to play devils advocate, Musk isn't saying that public transport itself sucks as much as he is saying the way public transport as it exists now sucks. If you asked an average person whether they'd prefer a bus or train, or a self driving car just for them and their party, most would probably choose the latter. Public transport just isn't that advanced yet sadly.[/QUOTE] I dunno, the snippet from the OP seems to suggest to me that he's against public transportation as a concept: [quote]“public transport is painful. It sucks. Why do you want to get on something with a lot of other people, that doesn’t leave where you want it to leave, doesn’t start where you want it to start, doesn’t end where you want it to end?”[/quote] I mean if his Boring Company Tunnels trailer is anything to go by, he wants to achieve the traffic congestion benefits of public transportation by letting private cars enter something like an automated underground railway system. Tho idk how that would be comparable in terms of cost or pollution or other factors like people without any private cars relying on public transportation.
Yay lets remove another way of having any contact with other humans in the silicon valley future dystopia. I respect Musk in general for what he achieves but his disgust of having contact with strangers here is weirdly antisocial. Yeah you can meet a serial killer in public transportation....like anywhere else? How is that an argument against an infrastructure that has a million other real upsides. Even if everyone owned teslas, individualised vehicles are not the future. More, better public transport is, especialy in super dense cities where cars are just not viable.
[QUOTE=spiritlol;52984299]I mean to play devils advocate, Musk isn't saying that public transport itself sucks as much as he is saying the way public transport as it exists now sucks. If you asked an average person whether they'd prefer a bus or train, or a self driving car just for them and their party, most would probably choose the latter. Public transport just isn't that advanced yet sadly.[/QUOTE] [I]Really[/I] depends on where you live. Tokyo's public transport is way better than driving, for instance.
And stuff is pretty good in norway overall
Public transportation in Israel is very comfortable and usually cheaper than using a car. I also got to meet cool people that I wouldn't have met otherwise. Maybe the public transportation where Musk grew up was shit but it's certainly not inherently bad.
[QUOTE=Loth;52984385]Yay lets remove another way of having any contact with other humans in the silicon valley future dystopia. I respect Musk in general for what he achieves but his disgust of having contact with strangers here is weirdly antisocial. Yeah you can meet a serial killer in public transportation....like anywhere else? How is that an argument against an infrastructure that has a million other real upsides. Even if everyone owned teslas, individualised vehicles are not the future. More, better public transport is, especialy in super dense cities where cars are just not viable.[/QUOTE] i don't know if you've actually taken public transportation in a city, but you never want to talk with strangers.
[QUOTE=Bertie;52984393]Public transportation in Israel is very comfortable and usually cheaper than using a car. I also got to meet cool people that I wouldn't have met otherwise. Maybe the public transportation where Musk grew up was shit but it's certainly not inherently bad.[/QUOTE] I don't know what you're talking about, [URL="http://www.jpost.com/Israel-News/Israeli-public-transit-infrastructure-lags-behind-OECD-countries-394368"]it's bad[/URL]
It's easy to say that public transport as a concept sucks when you can afford a car and live in the suburbs. Just about everywhere that isn't Japan, public transport is a clusterfuck of bad planning. My hometown and the immediate area around it has upwards of a hundred lines of public transport but too many of them are total fucking garbage. Some lines only operate 3 hours a day, excluding weekends and holidays, some have completely different schedules going from morning to noon. Delays are pretty much guaranteed for the most mundane of commutes because there's so many cars on the road, not to mention any construction work or accidents that might be going on. And yet, when it comes to going anywhere, I wouldn't have it any other way. It's punctual [i]enough[/i] (unless you need to take trains, then you're screwed) it's cheaper than constantly paying for gas and insurance and, most importantly, it's efficient. If you look at how many people drive shotgun in private vehicles versus how many people commute via public transport, it's pretty obvious. If you live in the middle of bumfuck nowhere, where a bus is akin to receiving disaster relief, or if you need to go shopping for the week and expect to get more than you can carry, then it makes sense to use a car but if you have access to serviceable public transport and are not stricken with an affliction that prevents you from walking at least 1km without harming you, yet choose to buy a car because the bus doesn't stop in your workplace's parking garage, you're kinda a dick.
The worst thing about public transport is my region is that the buses are crowded and the fault lies on the borough for not sending longer buses, especially when it is heavily required.
[QUOTE=Loth;52984385]Yay lets remove another way of having any contact with other humans in the silicon valley future dystopia. I respect Musk in general for what he achieves but his disgust of having contact with strangers here is weirdly antisocial. Yeah you can meet a serial killer in public transportation....like anywhere else? How is that an argument against an infrastructure that has a million other real upsides. Even if everyone owned teslas, individualised vehicles are not the future. More, better public transport is, especialy in super dense cities where cars are just not viable.[/QUOTE] There are other downsides to public transport, that arn't highlighted as often. Not being able to get specifically from where your leaving to where your going is a major downside with mobility issues, and that seems to be his main problem with public transport, it does go from your place to where your going. A better system Would be an efficient form of taxi system, which seems to be what I think he is going for. edit: Like theoretically you could get something like a bus pass but use it to summon a self-driving electric car that just takes you where you want to go. This would be pretty doable in the near future.
[QUOTE=Kero_;52984420]I don't know what you're talking about, [URL="http://www.jpost.com/Israel-News/Israeli-public-transit-infrastructure-lags-behind-OECD-countries-394368"]it's bad[/URL][/QUOTE] Can you imagine how much weight I put behind some analytical article compared to my own personal experience when it comes to the personal experience of using public transportation?
Public transit is notoriously bad in the US but that's not the case in other civilized countries. I could comfortably live without a car in my city and most of my friends don't own cars.
If this one American dude who I hung out with last week who's dad worked at Tesla is to be belived then Musk is a grade A asshole so seeing something like this isnt surprisibg.
The guy personally attacks Musk, and lumps him in with some guy that said "will your plan force me to leave my BMW in my drive??". Musk doesn't like public transport, but that's the whole point of the boring company. Build tunnels to relieve intra city congestion, and have cars on electric skateboards traveling quickly throughout. Combined with Tesla's vision of having self driving cars that pick you up where you want and drop you off where you want, and these cars will hold more than one person. The concept doesn't require car ownership, and might even make it more efficient. Imagine if you could say right I'm going to work, there's a couple of people on the same path I'll just let the car pick them up on my way and make some money, like an autonomous Uber type thing. If you're rich you could just say nah or summon a self driving car all to yourself. Obviously some big technical hurdles need to be figured out to make it work well and efficiently. But this guy didn't attack Musk for his concept, he tried to brand him as a self serving elite, and take a moral high ground without even mentioning his concept. If Musk can overcome the technical challenges the concept works well for both the rich and poor.
it also depends where that public transportation is ... in countries where security is high and crimerate low if quality and cleanness is good enough and times fast enough then it's probably not the avg example EM was talking about yet if you offer private transportation anywhere to 'spot' it's way more interesting but i'm quite sure cab and private drivers will hold strikes
There will never ever exist a world where people opt to not have a car and travel by whatever kind of public transport you can imagine. Even if you developed some kind of instant teleport technology, people would still prefer to own a car.
I [I]do[/I] keep seeing headlines where Musk comes off as.. ahem, peculiar.
I could either drive to my university, sit in peak hour traffic and arrive in 1 hour and 30 minutes and waste $20 of fuel ($40 both ways) and encounter the same shit on the way back OR, drive to the train station which is 10 minutes away, pay $2.50, get the train which takes me into the city in 20 minutes, catch the bus and pay $2 and gets me to uni in about 2 minutes thanks to the busway and do the same on the way back. I honestly don't mind being with other people, I met my current gf through public transport, I've had a lot of memories and fun on public transport. It's much better than driving alone in peak hour. Musk is wrong on this one
[QUOTE=V12US;52984480]There will never ever exist a world where people opt to not have a car and travel by whatever kind of public transport you can imagine. Even if you developed some kind of instant teleport technology, people would still prefer to own a car.[/QUOTE] i concur, i would prefer to own private space ship than car ... always :) yet if it's big enough, we can discuss if include all terrain ground transporter too
[QUOTE=Loth;52984385]Yay lets remove another way of having any contact with other humans in the silicon valley future dystopia. I respect Musk in general for what he achieves but his disgust of having contact with strangers here is weirdly antisocial. Yeah you can meet a serial killer in public transportation....like anywhere else? How is that an argument against an infrastructure that has a million other real upsides. Even if everyone owned teslas, individualised vehicles are not the future. More, better public transport is, especialy in super dense cities where cars are just not viable.[/QUOTE] I've seen people talking on public transport like twice ever. Everyone is just buried in their phone or listening to tunes.
Public transport around here is total shit, consistently late when there's no real reason for there to be, drivers that make you wonder where they got their licences from and the usual deluge of idiots that don't still don't understand to put their passes on the RFID pad that end up wasting more time than OAPs that don't understand that 9:30 is 30 minutes past 9, not 25 past.
[QUOTE=Morgen;52984443]The guy personally attacks Musk, and lumps him in with some guy that said "will your plan force me to leave my BMW in my drive??". Musk doesn't like public transport, but that's the whole point of the boring company. Build tunnels to relieve intra city congestion, and have cars on electric skateboards traveling quickly throughout. Combined with Tesla's vision of having self driving cars that pick you up where you want and drop you off where you want, and these cars will hold more than one person. The concept doesn't require car ownership, and might even make it more efficient. Imagine if you could say right I'm going to work, there's a couple of people on the same path I'll just let the car pick them up on my way and make some money, like an autonomous Uber type thing. If you're rich you could just say nah or summon a self driving car all to yourself. Obviously some big technical hurdles need to be figured out to make it work well and efficiently. But this guy didn't attack Musk for his concept, he tried to brand him as a self serving elite, and take a moral high ground without even mentioning his concept. If Musk can overcome the technical challenges the concept works well for both the rich and poor.[/QUOTE] How accessible is all of this for the less well off? I think Mr. Walker's concern is that dedicating so many resources and space towards what mostly amounts to a luxury that only a few can afford isn't going to do an inner city population that just scrapes by on bus fare any favors. Current public transit seems more efficient than what Musk proposes.
[media]https://twitter.com/RAILMag/status/941425306505793538[/media] DRAG HIM, RAIL MAGAZINE!!!
[QUOTE=Chris Morris;52984483]I [I]do[/I] keep seeing headlines where Musk comes off as.. ahem, peculiar.[/QUOTE] I mean he near bankrupted himself and disregarded his family into a divorce so I wouldn't find it surprising at all if he is a bit of a self-centered dick, but i've typically liked the attitude he approaches problems with and the things he does to solve them. Just doubt I would want to personally interact with him.
[QUOTE=Bertie;52984431]Can you imagine how much weight I put behind some analytical article compared to my own personal experience when it comes to the personal experience of using public transportation?[/QUOTE] I guess it depends on your priorities then, if your goal when using public transportation is meeting cool people and it happens often then good for you, but since the main purpose of public transportation is transferring people efficiently from a place to place I think this is the main factor to be taken into account when discussing the issue. Since numerous reports demonstrate objectively how Israeli public transportation fails to do so, I think it's safe to say that it sucks
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