• Judge (literally) sniffs out offender who attends court with weed hidden in sock
    93 replies, posted
[QUOTE=cis.joshb;52608912]So many people in this thread have never realized exactly how powerful, intense and sometimes disorienting and unpleasant that a strong nicotine buzz can be. I'd honestly rather drive high than drive while smoking a cigarette and having to deal with ashing it and the strong buzzing feeling, shaking and anxiety. Also drunk driving is prosecuted on a case by case basis because they actually test for how drunk you are.[/QUOTE] Well, yeah, naturally. I didn't mean to imply otherwise. The more impaired you are, the more severe the punishment. There's even a buffer zone with alcohol, wherein you are permitted to drive after drinking so long as your blood alcohol content hasn't reached a particular threshold, and I think that's just fine. The difficulty here comes in the sense that (to my knowledge) there aren't any objective tests to determine how high somebody is. With alcohol, you can simply measure blood alcohol content, but marijuana isn't quite so quick, easy, or certain. Since weed can hang out in your system for weeks, despite only impairing you for a few hours, how do we avoid "false positives" on scene? In cases where a driver [I]is[/I] clearly high, how do we objectively measure [I]how[/I] high they are to determine how impaired their abilities may have been? There are some practical challenges, certainly, but it's important that we find solutions for them.
The legal alcohol limit in most places is 0.08% BAC. This can be reached with two bottles of weak beer.
[QUOTE=Quark:;52608933]According to whom? Studies that show it doesn't contribute to risk of accidents? Or people who have never used marijuana and just parrot how bad it is according to the US Govt? You're fear mongering. "When it becomes legal everywhere it'll be a problem cause everyone will be high when they're driving" is an invalid argument.[/QUOTE] I know I personally shouldn't be driving while high, and I know I'm not the only one. I know it's effects on my motor skills, and thankfully I'm smart enough to stay home. Others will drive anyway, and it's going to get people killed. That's not fear mongering, that's fact. The stats don't change the fact that it's still a bad idea to operate a vehicle while impaired, under any circumstances.
[QUOTE=Quark:;52608948]The legal alcohol limit in most places is 0.08% BAC. This can be reached with two bottles of weak beer.[/QUOTE] As it should be. Alcohol has dramatic impacts on your ability to safely function a vehicle. If you want a beer with dinner, that's cool, but if you're drinking to become drunk, call a damn cab. Don't drink and drive.
[QUOTE=Thaggers;52608952]I know I personally shouldn't be driving while high, and I know I'm not the only one. I know it's effects on my motor skills, and thankfully I'm smart enough to stay home. Others will drive anyway, and it's going to get people killed. That's not fear mongering, that's fact.[B] The stats don't change the fact that it's still a bad idea to operate a vehicle while impaired[/B], under any circumstances.[/QUOTE] When the stats pertain specifically to marijuana, and demonstrate that driving under the influence of marijuana is virtually exactly as dangerous as driving sober, then yes - it does change the fact that you [I]are[/I] fear mongering. Long-term studies have clearly demonstrated that, in almost all cases where a fatal accident took place and marijuana was found in the driver's blood...there was also alcohol in the driver's blood. How can you ignore this?
[QUOTE=Quark:;52608967]When the stats pertain specifically to marijuana, and demonstrate that driving under the influence of marijuana is virtually exactly as dangerous as driving sober, then yes - it does change the fact that you [I]are[/I] fear mongering. Long-term studies have clearly demonstrated that, in almost all cases where a fatal accident took place and marijuana was found in the driver's blood...there was also alcohol in the driver's blood. How can you ignore this?[/QUOTE] I'm not ignoring it, I'm questioning the accuracy of the stats in the face of common knowledge that weed affects motor skills and reaction times In a lot of people, both things you kinda need in order to drive safely. I have to wonder if it's due to too low of a sample size. Weed is probably less likely than alcohol to cause an incident, sure, but until ts legal and we have an actual, large base of stats to go off, you can't confirm anything.
[QUOTE=Quark:;52608967]When the stats pertain specifically to marijuana, and demonstrate that driving under the influence of marijuana is virtually exactly as dangerous as driving sober, then yes - it does change the fact that you [I]are[/I] fear mongering. Long-term studies have clearly demonstrated that, in almost all cases where a fatal accident took place and marijuana was found in the driver's blood...there was also alcohol in the driver's blood. How can you ignore this?[/QUOTE] Am I reading your comments wrong or are you actually advocating for it to be alright to drive high? You're going to get someone killed.
[QUOTE=Quark:;52608967]When the stats pertain specifically to marijuana, and demonstrate that driving under the influence of marijuana is virtually exactly as dangerous as driving sober, then yes - it does change the fact that you [I]are[/I] fear mongering. Long-term studies have clearly demonstrated that, in almost all cases where a fatal accident took place and marijuana was found in the driver's blood...there was also alcohol in the driver's blood. How can you ignore this?[/QUOTE] Again, we run into the problem wherein marijuana is found in blood tests weeks after it has been consumed. Finding weed in somebody's blood does not mean that they were driving high, and that can lead to a lot of very false conclusions about the statistics behind accidents in which people were driving with detectable amounts of weed in their system, depending on the conclusions that you are trying to reach.
[QUOTE=1/4 Life;52608979]Am I reading your comments wrong or are you actually advocating for it to be alright to drive high? You're going to get someone killed.[/QUOTE] You must be reading them wrong. I'm not advocating for it to be alright to drive high. I'm stating that the statistical and scientific evidence clearly shows that driving whilst "high" on marijuana does not represent nearly as much of a danger as driving whilst drunk. In fact, studies show almost no difference between driving high and driving sober. If you can have 0.078% alcohol in your blood, it's perfectly legal to drive given you aren't swerving lanes. If you think I'm going to get someone killed because I'm relying on scientifically gathered data as opposed to "common knowledge" and anecdotal evidence (that has not and will not be tested ever) then I'm sorry you're misinformed. [QUOTE=Big Dumb American;52608982]Again, we run into the problem wherein marijuana is found in blood tests weeks after it has been consumed. Finding weed in somebody's blood does not mean that they were driving high, and that can lead to a lot of very false conclusions about the statistics behind accidents in which people were driving with detectable amounts of weed in their system, depending on the conclusions that you are trying to reach.[/QUOTE] Marijuana is not found in blood tests weeks after it has been consumed. Marijuana is stored in fat cells in your body. So yes, finding weed in someone's blood doesn't even imply they are driving high. However, above a certain concentration in one's blood (which is still being studied) it can be determined that they consumed cannabis X hours ago and so on. So it can be determined how recently someone consumed it by how much is still in your blood. This combined with the [I]already[/I] well understood effects of alcohol being in one's blood whilst driving (i.e drunk driving) can in fact draw very true conclusions.
[QUOTE=Quark:;52608989]In fact, studies show almost no difference between driving high and driving sober.[/QUOTE] Is this not advocating for it to be okay to drive high then? It's also wrong according to the National Institute on Drug Abuse. Time to post your sources since you're going to pull the "I'm scientifically correct" card.
[QUOTE=1/4 Life;52608991]Is this not advocating for it to be okay to drive high then?[/QUOTE] He's stating facts, you're drawing conclusions. There's a difference between showing something as a burden of proof opposed to advocating for it. [url]https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2017/06/26/what-marijuana-legalization-did-to-car-accident-rates/?utm_term=.a3e807fd7ca7[/url] Sources for Washington Post: [url]http://www.iihs.org/iihs/news/desktopnews/legalizing-recreational-marijuana-is-linked-to-increased-crashes[/url] [url]http://ajph.aphapublications.org/doi/abs/10.2105/AJPH.2017.303848[/url] So while accidents are 3% higher, fatal accidents haven't increased.
[QUOTE=1/4 Life;52608991]Is this not advocating for it to be okay to drive high then? It's also wrong according to the National Institute on Drug Abuse.[/QUOTE] Me saying "driving high is no more dangerous than driving sober" is not equal to me saying "go ahead and drive high" no matter how badly you twist it. Also, I wonder why the National Institute on Drug Abuse says it's wrong? Let's look at their URL - [url]https://www.drugabuse.gov/[/url] They are a government funded institute, and marijuana is federally illegal. Is it possible there's a bit of bias here?
[QUOTE=purvisdavid1;52609003]He's stating facts, you're drawing conclusions. There's a difference between showing something as a burden of proof opposed to advocating for it.[/QUOTE] Facts require sources. [QUOTE=Quark:;52609008] They are a government funded institute, and marijuana is federally illegal. Is it possible there's a bit of bias here?[/QUOTE] No. Scientific peer review produces accurate and testable results regardless of who funds it. Inaccuracies or falsified data would have been torn apart in peer review.
[QUOTE=1/4 Life;52609013]Facts require sources.[/QUOTE] I've already posted one such source on the last page but I'm sure it got ignored [QUOTE=1/4 Life;52609013]No. Scientific peer review produces accurate and testable results regardless of who funds it. Inaccuracies or falsified data would have been torn apart in peer review.[/QUOTE] The U.S. government’s “official expert” on cannabis from 1938 to 1962 once testified in court, under oath, that he had smoked cannabis and it turned him into a bat.
[QUOTE=Quark:;52609015] The U.S. government’s “official expert” on cannabis from 1938 to 1962 once testified in court, under oath, that he had smoked cannabis and it turned him into a bat.[/QUOTE] Was his bat claim peer reviewed and published in a scientific journal? Government I mistrust, Science I do not.
[QUOTE=Quark:;52609008]Me saying "driving high is no more dangerous than driving sober" is not equal to me saying "go ahead and drive high" no matter how badly you twist it. Also, I wonder why the National Institute on Drug Abuse says it's wrong? Let's look at their URL - [url]https://www.drugabuse.gov/[/url] They are a government funded institute, and marijuana is federally illegal. Is it possible there's a bit of bias here?[/QUOTE] Yes, there's every risk of bias. Is there any less risk of bias from the above linked article, on a website solely devoted to the legalization of marijuana, however? The drugabuse.gov website has a reference page linking to over 100 different studies and sources. Needless to say, plenty of studies and data exist to draw conclusions to support either argument. I'm friendly to marijuana in general, and know that there is still a shitload of misinformation and lack of reliable data. Thinking back to that story about how the marijuana that researchers use to test with is basically just [URL="http://mashable.com/2017/03/14/us-government-research-weed-bad/#ufi7JdUl0SqX"]charred dog shit[/URL] with no intoxicating properties, it makes it pretty easy to be wary about much of what's out there. Thus, it boils down to the basic common sense of the situation: 1) Does marijuana negatively impair your perspective, reactions, and judgment? The answer is, "yes." 2) Is it safe to operate a vehicle while your perspective, reactions, and judgment are negatively impaired? The answer is, "no."
[QUOTE=1/4 Life;52609022]Was his bat claim peer reviewed and published in a scientific journal? Government I mistrust, Science I do not.[/QUOTE] That's not what I was saying. I was making it a point that any study funded by the US Govt is going to have a clear and cut bias against any benefits from marijuana use. It's still scheduled as a drug with no medicinal value for Christ's sake. Government science has a tendency to re-affirm the government's pre-existing stance on any given subject.
[QUOTE=Quark:;52609046] Government science has a tendency to re-affirm the government's pre-existing stance on any given subject.[/QUOTE] Yet if it's peer reviewed and published in an accredited journal there's no chance of it being biased as anyone can look at it, test it themselves, and tear it apart if it's wrong; assuming peer review didn't do all of that already. That's what makes science the incredible tool that it is. If you disagree with that it's going to be nearly impossible to have a discussion with you on this.
[QUOTE=Big Dumb American;52609043]Yes, there's every risk of bias. Is there any less risk of bias from the above linked article, on a website solely devoted to the legalization of marijuana, however? The drugabuse.gov website has a reference page linking to over 100 different studies and sources. Needless to say, plenty of studies and data exist to draw conclusions to support either argument. Thus, it boils down to the basic common sense of the situation: 1) Does marijuana negatively impair your perspective, reactions, and judgment? The answer is, "yes." 2) Is it safe to operate a vehicle while your perspective, reactions, and judgment are negatively impaired? The answer is, "no."[/QUOTE] Thank you. There's studies on both sides of the argument, and quite frankly I don't trust either because we don't yet live In a society where it's prevalent enough. You can trust the observable facts though, like how it's obviously not safe to get into a car when you can barely remember how to walk. Stats or no, please just have good judgement and be safe
[QUOTE=Quark:;52608967]When the stats pertain specifically to marijuana and demonstrate that driving under the influence of marijuana is virtually exactly as dangerous as driving sober, then yes - it does change the fact that you [I]are[/I] fear mongering. [/QUOTE] Answer this: Does marijuana impair you physically, mentally, or both?
[QUOTE=Code3Response;52609067]Answer this: Does marijuana impair you physically, mentally, or both?[/QUOTE] It fully depends on the type and strain of marijuana. Some strains are high in CBD (which has no psychoactive effects) and low in THC (which is what causes the "high" feelings) So to answer your question, it depends.
weed is dangerous while driving the same reason alcohol is. it affects some more than others, and therefor should be blanket banned while driving to save innocent people from dying.
[QUOTE=Quark:;52609079]It fully depends on the type and strain of marijuana. Some strains are high in CBD (which has no psychoactive effects) and low in THC (which is what causes the "high" feelings) So to answer your question, it depends.[/QUOTE] The general answer is yes, it does impair you. And its [URL="https://one.nhtsa.gov/people/injury/research/job185drugs/cannabis.htm"]scientifically proven[/URL] that it does -- but like you said, and similarly to alcohol, it depends on the person and amount. Take a look at the NHTSA page and before you go getting on the government view stuff, look at what the page says and their sources. The source of the source can be found [URL="https://www.epa.gov/sites/production/files/2014-03/documents/toluene_nhtsa_drugs_web_3v.pdf"]here[/URL]
[QUOTE=No Party Hats;52606966]lmao leave it in the car you tool, ive definitely had my celebratory smoke as i drove away from possession charges but i kept my shit outside some people are too stupid[/QUOTE] Generally speaking if you try to stick it to big mean ol' justice with petty shit like this then you're kind of dumb to begin with and probably deserve whatever the law's throwing at you.
Like, just don't drive high. Why is that so difficult? Smoke your weed at home, or when you know you'll have enough time for it to wear off before you have to go anywhere. I like having a few glasses of whiskey now and again, but I plan my consumption around my needs as a driver, because I know that it's a danger to myself and others for me to get in the car while I'm impaired. Just exercise the bare minimum of responsibility out of respect for the lives and welfare of the people around you, for god's sake.
[QUOTE=Quark:;52609079]It fully depends on the type and strain of marijuana. Some strains are high in CBD (which has no psychoactive effects) and low in THC (which is what causes the "high" feelings) So to answer your question, it depends.[/QUOTE] Yeah just like drinking a pint of beer isn't going to smash your shit the same way a similar quantity of absinthe will but you're not allowed to drink either of them while driving.
[QUOTE=No Party Hats;52606966]lmao leave it in the car you tool, ive definitely had my celebratory smoke as i drove away from possession charges but i kept my shit outside some people are too stupid[/QUOTE] [IMG]http://i.imgur.com/qEdRuR0.png[/IMG]
How about nobody drives while doing anything possibly affecting their attention and reaction speeds. Don't fiddle with your phone while driving, don't drink and/then drive, don't smoke weed and/then drive, don't take a medication that impairs your ability to operate heavy machinery and then drive, don't fiddle with the radio while driving (unless you have those buttons on the wheel so you don't take your eyes off the road), don't get into heated arguments with passengers that make you furious and get your mind racing while driving, don't try to discipline your children in the backseat by turning around or doing something to a passenger while driving, don't get roadhead while driving, don't eat while driving, etc. Just keep your hands on the wheel and your full attention on the road lest you look away for a second and either somebody slams on the brakes, somebody jaywalks, a deer jumps out or someone changes lanes without signalling or paying attention and now shit's fucked. Even if you never have issues driving distracted or impaired you're rolling the dice every time you do the above, and it's not fair to other people on the road or your passengers if you weren't paying attention and got somebody hurt/killed. Remember, you're a [I]fragile[/I] bag of flesh in a [I]metal death machine[/I] that weighs [I]2 tons[/I] or more, going [I]faster than a race horse[/I] by burning corpses of prehistoric life, just so you can get from point A to B. Any person you hit will probably die or be severely injured. Any animal you crash into is either roadkill or a brick wall to your car. And if you crash into somebody else then not only did you just fuck up your way to get to work but you fucked up someone else's and that shit gets expensive. So just wait till you get home to smoke. Seriously, be patient.
[QUOTE=Ganerumo;52609153]Yeah just like drinking a pint of beer isn't going to smash your shit the same way a similar quantity of absinthe will but you're not allowed to drink either of them while driving.[/QUOTE] Comparing alcohol to weed is like comparing weed to amphetamines, theres absolutely no comparison between the two in terms of affect, dosage, tolerance, etc.
Dont do drugs
Sorry, you need to Log In to post a reply to this thread.