• Wisconsin Might Lower Drinking Age to 19
    75 replies, posted
[QUOTE=bdd458;52879692]it's not really. while personally i wish the culture around drinking would change in the US, so that people would be less likely to be retards with alcohol (and it being 21 only serves to make it more appealing to teens tbh). That said, it was raised to 21 because of the sheer volume of drunk driving accidents involving 16-20 year olds. In fact, that was the age group with the most drunk drivers. After the introduction of the drinking age being at 21, fatal drunk driving crashes involving 16-20 year olds dropped from 61% to 31% in 1995. Which was a much bigger drop than in any other age group. So it wasn't "think of the children", it was "we have a crisis on our hands of teenagers dying because they're drinking". [url]http://www.cnn.com/2014/07/15/health/science-drinking-age/index.html[/url] [url]https://report.nih.gov/nihfactsheets/ViewFactSheet.aspx?csid=24[/url] so yeah, it actually did a lot of good at curbing drunk driving for minors, and preventing many needless deaths. however, on the flipside it seems to have caused binge drinking to get worse.[/QUOTE] If you banned alcohol for everyone over 60 there would probably be less drunk driving accidents in that age range. If you banned alcohol for all black people, less black people would get in fatal drunk driving accidents. If you banned alcohol for women, less women would cause fatal accidents from drunk driving. The legislation just prevents a certain demographic from drinking, it doesn't do much to prevent drunk driving.
This is fine, but probably not the best idea in a state where your 10th DUI is a "right of passage" without making the penalties for DUI substantially harsher and offering less first offense leniency bullshit.
[QUOTE=unrezt;52882277]This is fine, but probably not the best idea in a state where your 10th DUI is a "right of passage" without making the penalties for DUI substantially harsher and offering less first offense leniency bullshit.[/QUOTE] I mean in Illinois you get chokeslammed for your first DUI. Serious penalties and risk jail time depending on if you strike something/drive erratically.
[QUOTE=joost1120;52879824]Yeah but way too many 16-17 year old kids drink more than they can handle and need to go to the hospital.[/QUOTE] [QUOTE=matt000024;52879672]I personally think 16 or 17 should be the legal age so parents can actually teach their kids to drink properly. Preventing an 18 year old from getting alcohol is pretty much impossible because nearly everyone at that age has older friends, siblings, or a fake ID (or a friend with one). All it does by keeping the drinking age at 21 is it creates even more of a divide between recent adults and law enforcement. "Call 9/11 I think he has alcohol poisoning!" "Oh no, but we are 20, let's just try to help him/her ourselves." Yeah, pretty sure that's how people die...[/QUOTE] I think the UK has a nice balance, basically it's 18 to buy alcohol but an 18+ year old is allowed to buy someone 16+ beer, wine or cider with a meal and anyone over the age of 5 is legally allowed to drink alcohol on private property. My parents always let me drink if I wanted at home from around 16 especially on special events, and 16-18 my mum was happy to go and buy me alcohol if I was going to a friends house for a gathering. One friend whose house we had a yearly party at's dad was a police officer and he was fine with it as well. It's the kinda similar to age of consent and sex ed in a way...You know that kids are going to be doing it regardless of the legality so really the effort should be put into educating people on doing it safely rather than outlawing it and having kids get into all kinds of trouble because they are doing things they don't fully understand without any kind of guidance or supervision.
[QUOTE=unrezt;52882277]This is fine, but probably not the best idea in a state where your 10th DUI is a "right of passage" without making the penalties for DUI substantially harsher and offering less first offense leniency bullshit.[/QUOTE] It's not fine. NHTSA studies have shown it's not fine. Drinking and driving as is is not fine and still a substantial problem. Wisconsin is going down the Kansas road by killing their tax base, killing the gas tax in favor of tolls, killing unions, and killing piblic safety pensions. Their governor is a piece of shit. It's already only a matter of time before 0.06 is the official BAC. 19 year olds cannot be trusted.
A younger drinking age, to a point, means they can comfortably and confidently get used to alcohol because they don't have to smuggle it around and shit A later date means they won't have that confidence and support, and they'll be completely shit on by their elders and do it in a really stupid and irresponsible way
[QUOTE=Cureless;52879768]Welcome to the fucking club, eh. America's adult shit being limited to 21 is ridiculous in my opinion, I had a conversation with an older co-worker about this at one of my old jobs and he agreed that Canada has it right, 19 is the right age to get access to everything.[/QUOTE] Its 18 in Canada, 19 in select provinces
[QUOTE=J!NX;52882534]A younger drinking age, to a point, means they can comfortably and confidently get used to alcohol because they don't have to smuggle it around and shit A later date means they won't have that confidence and support, and they'll be completely shit on by their elders and do it in a really stupid and irresponsible way[/QUOTE] If this argument had validity to it we would have never raised the age to 21 to begin with. In Wisconsin you are able to drink at restaurants and in your own home as long your parents ok it.
[QUOTE=Code3Response;52882624]If this argument had validity to it we would have never raised the age to 21 to begin with. In Wisconsin you are able to drink at restaurants and in your own home as long your parents ok it.[/QUOTE] It's almost as if we outright banned alcohol at one point and that's why our laws are fucked [editline]12th November 2017[/editline] Are all arguments against all laws invalid because that law exists? After all we would have never banned weed if the arguments for that were valid. When you at the very least have your parents supporting it you have someone telling you when its time to stop, and whats ok to do. If you're going to do it no matter what and the law says no, only you and your inexperienced friends will do it. If your parent's aren't legally allowed to give you any ok, then there is a push on all sides against you doing it, and that isn't going to stop teens, if anything it'll just make them push harder to drink. When you aren't comfortable with your parents picking you up after you get drunk and you rely on your idiot, possibly also drunk teen friends to do it, you're much more likely to die in a crash. No one coaches your behavior when you outright are not allowed to have that behavior that you're going to have no matter what.
[QUOTE=J!NX;52882626]It's almost as if we outright banned alcohol at one point and that's why our laws are fucked[/QUOTE] Except the age was raised in the mid 1980s, long after prohibition. The legal BAC level was also 0.1 until 2000. Prohibition is not the cause for the change. Teens drunkingly getting killed in cars is the reason for the change and its [I]still[/I] an issue with the current laws.
[QUOTE=Code3Response;52882695]Except the age was raised in the mid 1980s, long after prohibition. The legal BAC level was also 0.1 until 2000. Prohibition is not the cause for the change.[/QUOTE] [url]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/U.S._history_of_alcohol_minimum_purchase_age_by_state[/url] On a federal level sure, but you can't seriously pretend it wasn't a major factor. After it it was mostly 21, and states started lowering it in the 70's before raising it again in the 80's [QUOTE]Teens drunkingly getting killed in cars is the reason for the change and its [I]still[/I] an issue with the current laws.[/QUOTE] So you say its still an issue. Sounds like that isn't a very effective law. Sounds like maybe we should rethink why its happening instead of trying to dictate their lives for them. [editline]12th November 2017[/editline] Obviously we shouldn't outright allow all teens, even the ones who are still mentally children, to drink but we need to create an environment that feels OK for them do to so where they can be coached properly instead of taking the authoritative stance of "You can be drafted, but you can't drink"
We have people sitting in jail for a drug that's sold in lollipops in other states. Do you know what kind of head-fuck this is for your average American parent? You have parents in illegal states that have tell their kids that they don't mind if they smoke as long as they do it responsibly and don't get in legal trouble. What is a 19 year old going to think about drinking when, no pun intended, this is the state they live in? As Zukriuchen pointed out most teens don't study the law and just now "it's going to get me in trouble." If they're already driving around with a bag of something they think could land them in jail, whats the big deal about buying a bottle of something that could land them in jail, right? You [B]have[/B] to assume teenagers drink and teach them how do it responsibly and the dangers of drunk driving because if you try to rely on the fact that it's illegal you're going to have a child that has yet to learn responsibility but already has access to alcohol, as I described above. I mean, [URL="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z2Xd7cseGcE"]this[/URL] is one my mom's favorite shows. No offense Mr. Code3, but you have to imagine how low our opinion of the police's authority is when this little old lady on tv is cooking with something that put me in a jail with killers if I was caught with as much as she cooks with. Parent's have to teach their children a custom version of the law. My mom started talking to me about drunk driving when I was 17 because instead of assuming I would I never do it, she aired on the side of safety and assumed I would be drinking simply because of the '-teen' part of my age suggests I would have. My friends always thought it was crazy how open my parents were but if I wanted to get drunk or high they would rather me do at home so I don't have to be in a car. In my experience, the most common place to smoke weed among teenagers is 4-5 deep in a moving car. If you're driving the only way you get caught is pulled over, there are no parents to get mad or civilians to smell something and call the police. That means every time this happens 1 of those 4-5 kids is driving stoned and feels compelled by the risk of jail-time to continue driving. I absolutely hate this about or current culture because high or sober, being in the car with a stoned driver is a scary idea. But what are you going to tell them? They aren't going to pull over somewhere when they have a joint in their hands because in their eyes getting in trouble is far more likely than a car accident.
[QUOTE=BlackWolf97;52882862]We have people sitting in jail for a drug that's sold in lollipops in other states. Do you know what kind of head-fuck this is for your average American parent? I mean, [URL="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z2Xd7cseGcE"]this[/URL] is one my mom's favorite shows. [B]No offense Mr. Code3, but you have to imagine how low our opinion of the police's authority[/B] is when this little old lady on tv is cooking with something that put me in a jail with killers if I was caught with as much as she cooks with. Parent's have to teach their children a custom version of the law. My mom started talking to me about drunk driving when I was 17 because instead of assuming I would I never do it, she aired on the side of safety and assumed I would be drinking simply because of the '-teen' part of my age suggests I would have. [/QUOTE] This is a small part of your post but I do wonder why people think this, the police do what the police do which is enforce the law, and selectively enforcing it can be a quite dangerous thing. The problems caused by the drinking age being 21 has more to do with lawmakers and scumbags that locked highway funding behind the drinking age being 21.
[QUOTE=thelurker1234;52883156]This is a small part of your post but I do wonder why people think this, the police do what the police do which is enforce the law, and selectively enforcing it can be a quite dangerous thing. The problems caused by the drinking age being 21 has more to do with lawmakers and scumbags that locked highway funding behind the drinking age being 21.[/QUOTE] That's why I said no offense. I simply meant that (a rather infinitesimal part) of what someone like Code does for a living is laughable to civilians. It's hard to take a person seriously when they're doing something petty and by the very nature of their job they are forced to crack down on trivial things at times. Code seemed to be in favor an authoritarian stance on this issue and I intended to attack that. I could have made it more obvious but I just feel that he has a little more stake in the argument because he's out there in the real world physically enforcing these policies, which I don't agree he should be doing in certain specific circumstances. Not that it's his responsibly for the policy but this is Facepunch and we often move to a hypothetical place in our minds where policy one suggests has been enacted to determine and discuss the outcomes.
[QUOTE=Code3Response;52882533] It's already only a matter of time before 0.06 is the official BAC. 19 year olds cannot be trusted.[/QUOTE] Explain why Europe doesn't have the problems the US does then? Yes, the drunk driving one might be due to less car ownership due to better public transport, but even then why does the US have so much more of a binge drinking problem?
Bear in mind that Americans have a specific attitude toward alcohol given we had a brief period of time in which alcohol was federally prohibited. To Americans alcohol is a symbol of freedom and celebration, two things we attempt to take seriously. Alcohol is glorified on television shows as well as in commercial advertisements almost like this [video=youtube;EJT0NMYHeGw]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EJT0NMYHeGw[/video] Younger people naturally feel inclined to drink and get drunk because it's part of being a rebellious teenager, you're fed advertisements glorifying liquor while being told you can't drink it :v:
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