• Short on Staff: Nursing Crisis Strains U.S. Hospitals
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[quote=Reuters]MORGANTOWN, West Virginia, Oct 20 (Reuters) - A shortage of nurses at U.S. hospitals hit West Virginia’s Charleston Area Medical Center at the worst possible time. The non-profit healthcare system is one of the state’s largest employers and sits in the heart of economically depressed coal country. It faces a $40 million deficit this year as it struggles with fewer privately insured patients, cuts in government reimbursement and higher labor costs to attract a shrinking pool of nurses. Nursing shortages have occurred in the past, but the current crisis is far worse. The Bureau of Labor Statistics estimates there will be more than a million registered nurse openings by 2024, twice the rate seen in previous shortages... UAB Hospital in Birmingham, Alabama, has invested millions to attract nurses, but still has 300 jobs to fill. At times, nursing vacancy rates in some of its departments has hit 20 percent or higher... They haven’t closed beds, but have hired less experienced nurses, raised salaries and turned away at least one patient who would have been in its long term care program.[/quote] [url=http://www.reuters.com/article/usa-healthcare-nursing/rpt-insight-short-on-staff-nursing-crisis-strains-u-s-hospitals-idUSL2N1MV06O]Source[/url] This problem is only going to get worse moving forward. But hey, if you're a millennial looking for a stable job moving forward that you can rise through the ranks pretty quickly for a good salary, becoming a doctor is a good decision right now. Also, if you need help with student loan debt, they can cover that: [quote=Reuters]In addition to higher salaries, retention and signing bonuses, they now offer perks such as student loan repayment, free housing and career mentoring, and rely more on foreign or temporary nurses to fill the gaps.[/quote]
i have no idea how we have this problem though, every college around has a nursing program, like half my class went into nursing, my community college graduated probably a fifth of its class as nurses. it must have some huge burnout nurses don't make a whole lot starting out either and have very tough jobs
Every medical field that isn't entry level is desperate for people. EMT's and CNA's.. nah. But Paramedics, Nurses, LPN's, Doctors? Absolutely. Desperate as in, you could walk out of school day 1 and get a job. Hell you could interview for a position while still in school, and probably get your company to pay for your testing.
Being a hospital nurse is a living hell My best friend has been working as nurse through college, and she frequently gets 8-15 patients to treat a night when nursing school prepares you for just 5. Its really unfriendly to new nurses because all of the other nurses have higher priority when it comes to scheduling working days/hours and new nurses are given the worst times. Beyond the administration, the patients can also be depressing to work with. One patient causing problems because they can't get their opioids served to them takes time away from patients who are recovering from accidents, child birth, or diseases. Its depressing as hell and you only get paid $20 an hour starting.
[QUOTE=Sableye;52804016]i have no idea how we have this problem though, every college around has a nursing program, like half my class went into nursing, my community college graduated probably a fifth of its class as nurses. it must have some huge burnout nurses don't make a whole lot starting out either and have very tough jobs[/QUOTE] Huge burnout+Specialization=short staff. Stock standard nurses dont make a ton of money, but you can go back to school for something like anesthesia, and make serious fuck off money. Which leads to shortages of stock standard nurses.
I wonder how hard it is becoming a doctor.
I would consider doing nursing if I wasn't so squeamish around blood and stuff, I know there's a demand for male nurses to help with lifting heavy patients (at least in Aus). I'm looking at teaching now which is another area with a lot of demand (and burnout depending on where you work).
[QUOTE=RIPBILLYMAYS;52804021]Being a hospital nurse is a living hell My best friend has been working as nurse through college, and she frequently gets 8-15 patients to treat a night when nursing school prepares you for just 5. Its really unfriendly to new nurses because all of the other nurses have higher priority when it comes to scheduling working days/hours and new nurses are given the worst times. Beyond the administration, the patients can also be depressing to work with. One patient causing problems because they can't get their opioids served to them takes time away from patients who are recovering from accidents, child birth, or diseases. Its depressing as hell and you only get paid $20 an hour starting.[/QUOTE] To be fair, other nurses rate that priority because they've been doing the same shit for 5+ years. We call that "earning your place". As in when you first start out, you're probably going to work nights and weekends, do your shit, do it well, and in 6ish months you'll be able to dictate more of your schedule. After a year you have enough clout to start directly saying "yo i'm not working on x day". After 2/3 years you've got enough clout to completely dictate your schedule. [editline]20th October 2017[/editline] [QUOTE=TheNerdPest14;52804026]I wonder how hard it is becoming a doctor.[/QUOTE] In the US? Not nearly as hard as getting into school. School is challenging, but nowhere near impossible.
We have an aging population in Western society right now and we are going to keep needing more and more nurses. It is starting to affect ambulance services too. In Scotland the government ambulance service began contacting private EMT companies to assist with patient transport since emergency vehicles were being used because there is so many elderly patients needing transported now. A lot of the nurses and paramedics/EMTs and other professionals are also leaving for other countries or going into private services like I did as NHS pay and quality of work is so poor.
[QUOTE=ilikecorn;52804034]To be fair, other nurses rate that priority because they've been doing the same shit for 5+ years. We call that "earning your place". As in when you first start out, you're probably going to work nights and weekends, do your shit, do it well, and in 6ish months you'll be able to dictate more of your schedule. After a year you have enough clout to start directly saying "yo i'm not working on x day". After 2/3 years you've got enough clout to completely dictate your schedule. [/QUOTE] While that's fair, its a hard sell to be told that you'll be entering a field to work your ass off and it will only get better if others join. I can tell you that the nurses with established time don't work as hard as the new nurses trying to earn their place (at least at my friend's hospital). The old nurses see the new nurses as the opportunity to earn a break so they throw them will the worst patients/schedules and it burns out new nurses from staying in the field. You can't really control what comes into the hospital but this shitty management is partly what keeps people from staying.
[QUOTE=Mr Kotov;52804062]We have an aging population in Western society right now and we are going to keep needing more and more nurses. It is starting to affect ambulance services too. In Scotland the government ambulance service began contacting private EMT companies to assist with patient transport since emergency vehicles were being used because there is so many elderly patients needing transported now. A lot of the nurses and paramedics/EMTs and other professionals are also leaving for other countries or going into private services like I did as NHS pay and quality of work is so poor.[/QUOTE] Medics for the company I work for flat out told the company "we're not doing transports" as in "we're not doing non emergency work". Because its boring. Flat out boring. Mind numbing in every way, shape, and form. The company has had no choice but to listen, because the medics know they could quit RIGHT NOW and have a job in 5 minutes with another company, about 20 minutes down the road. [editline]20th October 2017[/editline] [QUOTE=RIPBILLYMAYS;52804087]While that's fair, its a hard sell to be told that you'll be entering a field to work your ass off and it will only get better if others join. I can tell you that the nurses with established time don't work as hard as the new nurses trying to earn their place (at least at my friend's hospital). The old nurses see the new nurses as the opportunity to earn a break so they throw them will the worst patients/schedules and burns out new nurses from staying in the field. You can't really control what comes into the hospital but this shitty management is partly why no one wants to enter.[/QUOTE] I mean shit happens. It sucks to get shit on as the new guy, but at the same time you gotta remember that those old school guys have seen the same shit for the past x years. Those "difficult" patients are excellent learning opportunities. You've got to learn how to deal with shitty people and shitty situations eventually. The shitty schedule thing is extremely temporary, but completely understandable too. Like if you can put up with "oh man I don't get saturday/sunday off" for 6 months, then you'll be able to say "hey i'd like saturday and sunday off". Its so temporary that I never even noticed it during my "break in" period.
[QUOTE=ilikecorn;52804093]Medics for the company I work for flat out told the company "we're not doing transports" as in "we're not doing non emergency work". Because its boring. Flat out boring. Mind numbing in every way, shape, and form. The company has had no choice but to listen, because the medics know they could quit RIGHT NOW and have a job in 5 minutes with another company, about 20 minutes down the road. [editline]20th October 2017[/editline] I mean shit happens. It sucks to get shit on as the new guy, but at the same time you gotta remember that those old school guys have seen the same shit for the past x years. Those "difficult" patients are excellent learning opportunities. You've got to learn how to deal with shitty people and shitty situations eventually.[/QUOTE] It's a little bit different back home because the central government service covers almost everything and there is not a lot of private companies. The central service is really starting to crack now and while transport is boring as hell the NHS don't really want to let us take any emergency work due to red tape and buearocracy. I left 6 months ago but I am sure it will be the same.
[QUOTE=Mr Kotov;52804108]It's a little bit different back home because the central government service covers almost everything and there is not a lot of private companies. The central service is really starting to crack now and while transport is boring as hell the NHS don't really want to let us take any emergency work due to red tape and buearocracy. I left 6 months ago but I am sure it will be the same.[/QUOTE] In the US there really isnt such thing as a "central government service", its all private effectively. Some companies have a contract with the city/state that makes them a "government service" but the management is still private. Which means we get to dictate what kind of shit we want to do (to an extent). Our 911 service wanted to start taking transports during our down time, we told them no, they pushed back, and then we lost 3 medics. Now the company wouldn't even consider transports for fear of losing our already lean paramedic staff.
[QUOTE=ilikecorn;52804115]In the US there really isnt such thing as a "central government service", its all private effectively. Some companies have a contract with the city/state that makes them a "government service" but the management is still private. Which means we get to dictate what kind of shit we want to do (to an extent). Our 911 service wanted to start taking transports during our down time, we told them no, they pushed back, and then we lost 3 medics. Now the company wouldn't even consider transports for fear of losing our already lean paramedic staff.[/QUOTE] Yeah due to the system in the UK private companies were not even really a thing for ages but in the past 20 years shit is changing due to the NHS ambulance service not being able to cope anymore. There used to be one big private company but due to bullshit from officers it is splintering into new companies and we are slowly becoming a bit more like the US in that regard as the central service becomes more and more reduced.
[QUOTE=Sableye;52804016]i have no idea how we have this problem though, every college around has a nursing program, like half my class went into nursing, my community college graduated probably a fifth of its class as nurses. it must have some huge burnout nurses don't make a whole lot starting out either and have very tough jobs[/QUOTE] Depends on the type of nurse and what they're applying for, as ilikecorn mentions. We have a huge nursing program where I live and they have no trouble at all finding jobs. [editline]21st October 2017[/editline] [QUOTE=RIPBILLYMAYS;52804021]Being a hospital nurse is a living hell My best friend has been working as nurse through college, and she frequently gets 8-15 patients to treat a night when nursing school prepares you for just 5. Its really unfriendly to new nurses because all of the other nurses have higher priority when it comes to scheduling working days/hours and new nurses are given the worst times. Beyond the administration, the patients can also be depressing to work with. One patient causing problems because they can't get their opioids served to them takes time away from patients who are recovering from accidents, child birth, or diseases. Its depressing as hell and you only get paid $20 an hour starting.[/QUOTE] This is likely to change soon since nurse retention is at an all-time low on top of the shortage. Hospitals just won't be able to function properly soon. [editline]21st October 2017[/editline] By 'soon,' I mean in a decade, just a clarification :v:
being a nurse sucks and a lot of nurses suck and/or have shit attitudes tbh nursing programs seem to be becoming more and more competitive to get into as well there seems to be a push for nurse anesthetists in a few regions though; that and an education in nursing looks good for anyone in healthcare administration
[QUOTE=RIPBILLYMAYS;52804021]Being a hospital nurse is a living hell My best friend has been working as nurse through college, and she frequently gets 8-15 patients to treat a night when nursing school prepares you for just 5. Its really unfriendly to new nurses because all of the other nurses have higher priority when it comes to scheduling working days/hours and new nurses are given the worst times. Beyond the administration, the patients can also be depressing to work with. One patient causing problems because they can't get their opioids served to them takes time away from patients who are recovering from accidents, child birth, or diseases. Its depressing as hell and you only get paid $20 an hour starting.[/QUOTE] Wait, "only" $20 an hour starting? I need to consider becoming a nurse.
[QUOTE=SGTNAPALM;52804299]Wait, "only" $20 an hour starting? I need to consider becoming a nurse.[/QUOTE] If you play your cards right and become a contract nurse, that number goes up to close to 80k a year, starting, no specialties.
[QUOTE=SGTNAPALM;52804299]Wait, "only" $20 an hour starting? I need to consider becoming a nurse.[/QUOTE] Keep in mind that $20 an hour is your compensation for forfeiting control of your own schedule and dealing with the worst forms of human depravity imaginable. It takes a really special kind of person to deal with 450lb obese women who pull out their IV tubes and assault you when you try to administer medicine. If you work in pediatrics you have to explain to kids with cancer that the reason they aren't getting better is because mom and dad only believe in traditional medicine (herbs and prayer) instead of chemotherapy and radiation. If someone in the hospital dies all of the doctors are going to immediately blame the nurses because they don't want to put their medical license on the line. My favorite story that my nursing friend told me is that a 13 year old girl was walking around the hospital alone, and she was 9 months pregnant. When my nursing friend delivered the meal to her room, she asked my friend to stay and talk with her for a while. She had sex with a 21 year old who bailed after he found out about the pregnancy. When she went to her parents they disowned her and kicked her out of the house, so she kept hopping between her friend's home and her aunt's home. When my friend was about to end her 12hr shift, she stopped by the girls room to say bye, only for the girl to go into labor. My nursing friend stayed another [B]3 hours[/B] to help deliver the baby, which in the process ended up cracking the girl's pelvis bone because it wasn't developed enough to give birth. From an education standpoint nursing is a kind of middle ground between a social science and life science, but I can't think of a lot of people that will sacrifice their social life and hope in humanity for $20 an hour. I can certainly see the wage/salary increasing as nurses become more scarce but even then its a tough sell if you can do other trades (plumbing, welding, construction, electrician, carpentry, or even military services) that aren't as depressing.
While I was a Corpsman in the Navy the worst for me was having to work with dying patients and people who know they are dying but can still function(they still go home, drive their car, etc). For the most part it I could deal with it but some of them you got a bit attached to(perhaps I was just overly empathetic) I'm glad I didn't have to deal with kids at least. The others were geriatric patients, for the most part they lacked emotion but if you took them outside or even just to a window to look outside you could see their eyes light up with a little bit of life still there trying to hang on. It was always heartbreaking for me but it also played a large part in my burning out. After I'd be done for the day I just wanted to go to bed. I would come home mentally drained. Even still, I felt it my duty as a human being to at least try and make the day just a little bit better for the patients I dealt with. It wasn't just a job for me. Eventually I got out of the military and later on started going to college for a civilian nursing job but I stopped going.
It's a similar situation in the UK I fear, particularly as the current shitheaps in government such as Jeremy Cunt are content to allow our doctors and nurses to work themselves to death.
My brother's girlfriend just got a job at one of the nicest hospitals around, and I wouldn't say she is a genius or the most fantastic worker in the world. Not a bad, but nothing special, and she got the job without any issues at all.
[QUOTE=SGTNAPALM;52804299]Wait, "only" $20 an hour starting? I need to consider becoming a nurse.[/QUOTE] $20 an hour is low. I have a friend who is just finishing up their nursing program and landed a job making $34.50 starting. That's before shift differential/weekend/whatever pay
[QUOTE=Code3Response;52805396]$20 an hour is low. I have a friend who is just finishing up their nursing program and landed a job making $34.50 starting. That's before shift differential/weekend/whatever pay[/QUOTE] Where at, may I ask? Thats a solid 70k salary with a 4yr degree
[QUOTE=RIPBILLYMAYS;52805461]Where at, may I ask? Thats a solid 70k salary with a 4yr degree[/QUOTE] The grand state of Minnesota. Strong unions here. You could also scab all your life you can make even more, but be hated by everyone
[QUOTE=RIPBILLYMAYS;52805461]Where at, may I ask? Thats a solid 70k salary with a 4yr degree[/QUOTE] That's also low in Florida, and we are a non-union state.
[QUOTE=TheNerdPest14;52804026]I wonder how hard it is becoming a doctor.[/QUOTE] med school is really really really hard and compedative [editline]21st October 2017[/editline] [QUOTE=ForgottenKane;52806333]That's also low in Florida, and we are a non-union state.[/QUOTE] its about 30$ median in ohio, but its not quite clear cut, I've had quite a few nurses in my family and they haven't been making that much
To think I had difficulty 3 years ago trying to find a position. Now that I'm in my new OR nurse position, I see that at least half of the nurses I work with are at least older than 50 years old. I can't imagine how it'll be when its 10-20 years for now and all the experienced staff disappear. Younger workers will have to scramble to take over those roles and it'll get hectic.
[QUOTE=Koolguy11;52806701]To think I had difficulty 3 years ago trying to find a position. Now that I'm in my new OR nurse position, I see that at least half of the nurses I work with are at least older than 50 years old. I can't imagine how it'll be when its 10-20 years for now and all the experienced staff disappear. Younger workers will have to scramble to take over those roles and it'll get hectic.[/QUOTE] Most nurses nowadays in Western countries tend to be on the older side. At least in Scotland we are also seeing an increase of medical school applicants from existing nurses, pharmacists etc.(is worth pointing out that in the UK people can enter medical school with only high school grades and clinical admissions testing, so we often have doctors practicing earlier than in places like the US)
My sister was making $157/hour a year or so ago as a CRNA. I only make about 17.66 an hour so that was upsetting to hear.
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