• Princeton cancels ‘hate speech’ class after professor uses ‘N-word,’ student shouts ‘F- you’
    77 replies, posted
[QUOTE=TheTalon;53132564]Context matters. When did that stop being a thing?[/QUOTE] There is no room for nuance when your entire ideology paints the world as black and white.
I remember in middle school, one of my teachers read a book out loud to the class which had racial themes and used that word, he said it without sugarcoating and nobody raised a stink because within the context of why he said it and in the context of the book itself, it was acceptable, in order to educate. Iirc he went into a thing about the historical usage of the word and why its seen as bad after the first time it came up. Book might have been about slavery or something, i think a guys foot got cut off, its been awhile. How come these grown ass adults cant do that, in a hate speech class of all things.
[QUOTE=ShadowSocks8;53131698]youre missing the point still. it is supposed to make them feel, in the moment, the discomfort they feel from hearing the word. saying "n-word" does not have the same effect. [B]it's similar to professors showing graphic war footage of people actually getting shot in war history classes rather than just saying "x amount of people died in this battle".[/B] It aids in education by exposing you to the raw realities[/QUOTE] and i think this would be a pretty dumb way to [I]introduce [/I]the course. I think he definitely could use the n-word in full at some point in the course, but in the first 10 minutes is just asking people to misinterpret you.
[QUOTE=cdr248;53132674]and i think this would be a pretty dumb way to [I]introduce [/I]the course. I think he definitely could use the n-word in full at some point in the course, but in the first 10 minutes is just asking people to misinterpret you.[/QUOTE] they saw the course title, number, and description when they signed up for the class. They knew what they were in for. It's a perfectly logical way to introduce the concepts the class would be discussing (especially in relationship to other free speech issues that get people riled up, like the flag example he also used).
[media]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4epoinq-hPw[/media]
[QUOTE=TheTalon;53132564]Context matters. When did that stop being a thing?[/QUOTE] When virtue signaling became more important than the truth. [media]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cOlNHXQCT_4[/media]
[QUOTE=cdr248;53132674]and i think this would be a pretty dumb way to [I]introduce [/I]the course. I think he definitely could use the n-word in full at some point in the course, but in the first 10 minutes is just asking people to misinterpret you.[/QUOTE] In my class about physical trauma, we opened with an hour long video of various people being horribly maimed by vehicles, during which we paused occasionally and discussed pathophys of those injuries, and what could be done to stop them from being fatal. I knew this was coming, because I did a little thing called "reading the course description". Its literally in the course description as to what the content of the course is going to be, if you can't handle it, don't fucking take it. Don't water down the experience for those who are emotionally/mentally weak. That's how you get a shit education, and that's how you get shit students. Pandering to those who can't handle their emotions is how we make our society shit. These people don't need to be pandered to, they need to be consulted to a mental health professional.
[QUOTE=cdr248;53132674]and i think this would be a pretty dumb way to [I]introduce [/I]the course. I think he definitely could use the n-word in full at some point in the course, but in the first 10 minutes is just asking people to misinterpret you.[/QUOTE] i think that would be an absolutely fantastic way to introduce a course about the horrors of war. it would weed out those who are perhaps not emotionally prepared for the class while they still have time to drop it and it would elicit a raw emotional response, something that this class is likely discussing. [editline]14th February 2018[/editline] if this were a middle or high school class, i would agree with easing them in, but once you hit college you should expect to see or hear some shit when you enroll in a class called "Cultural Freedoms: Hate Speech, Blasphemy and Pornography".
[QUOTE=ShadowSocks8;53131698]youre missing the point still. it is supposed to make them feel, in the moment, the discomfort they feel from hearing the word. saying "n-word" does not have the same effect. it's similar to professors showing graphic war footage of people actually getting shot in war history classes rather than just saying "x amount of people died in this battle". It aids in education by exposing you to the raw realities[/QUOTE] Okay, but what exactly is it supposed to make them feel? Probably angry, which would explain why some students got very angry. To hope on the analogy-modifying train, a better analogy would be that the professor opens fire on the class with a machine gun in order to expose them to the raw realities of WW2. What raw realities do these students need exposing to? It's clear that some of them have already been exposed to raw realities, considering the visceral reactions. If you want to expose students to the raw realities of racism, play some speeches of Southern politicians and KKK leaders from the 1960s, or any of the raw reality of racism that continues to this present day. Secondly, this is such a nonissue. This was literally a situation that occurred between students, and this teacher. A colleague of the teacher's spoke out in his defence. The teacher didn't say that he had done anything wrong, but he did cancel the class in light of what happened. Perhaps he simply realized that it maybe wasn't a great idea to say the n-word without warning (I read the article, it didn't say anything about any kind of warning that people who weren't comfortable hearing racial slurs should probably not take the class, that's a reasonable "trigger warning" if you ask me). It also says he stomps on the flag as another example, and says the point of the class is to ask "Who's feelings should the law protect?" It's pretty clear we already have an answer to that in our country, which is no one. It isn't and never will be (I hope) illegal to say the n-word. It's also isn't and should never be illegal to stamp all over the flag. However, legality is not morality. Disrespecting the flag can be done in a meaningful protest, when it is used to evoke an emotional response and send a message. However, just doing it because you want to point out that it causes emotional reactions in people does seem like something likely to piss people off. Couldn't he justify heiling Hitler and waving a Nazi flag at the beginning of the class using this same logic? Schools generally observe a certain socially-agreed upon level of respect/common morality and decorum. This goes outside what you would expect to be exposed to, arguably. Administration didn't shut him down, and if they had, I would be upset with them. I don't see the big scandal here.
[QUOTE=cis.joshb;53133114]Okay, but what exactly is it supposed to make them feel? Probably angry, which would explain why some students got very angry. To hope on the analogy-modifying train, a better analogy would be that the professor opens fire on the class with a machine gun in order to expose them to the raw realities of WW2. What raw realities do these students need exposing to? It's clear that some of them have already been exposed to raw realities, considering the visceral reactions. If you want to expose students to the raw realities of racism, play some speeches of Southern politicians and KKK leaders from the 1960s, or any of the raw reality of racism that continues to this present day. Secondly, this is such a nonissue. This was literally a situation that occurred between students, and this teacher. A colleague of the teacher's spoke out in his defence. The teacher didn't say that he had done anything wrong, but he did cancel the class in light of what happened. Perhaps he simply realized that it maybe wasn't a great idea to say the n-word without warning (I read the article, it didn't say anything about any kind of warning that people who weren't comfortable hearing racial slurs should probably not take the class, that's a reasonable "trigger warning" if you ask me). [b]It also says he stomps on the flag as another example, and says the point of the class is to ask "Who's feelings should the law protect?"[/b] It's pretty clear we already have an answer to that in our country, which is no one. It isn't and never will be (I hope) illegal to say the n-word. It's also isn't and should never be illegal to stamp all over the flag. However, legality is not morality. Disrespecting the flag can be done in a meaningful protest, when it is used to evoke an emotional response and send a message. However, just doing it because you want to point out that it causes emotional reactions in people does seem like something likely to piss people off. Couldn't he justify heiling Hitler and waving a Nazi flag at the beginning of the class using this same logic? Schools generally observe a certain socially-agreed upon level of respect/common morality and decorum. This goes outside what you would expect to be exposed to, arguably. Administration didn't shut him down, and if they had, I would be upset with them. I don't see the big scandal here.[/QUOTE] Reminds me of a particular group of people who were upset about a certain flag being disrespected. If anything, this article shows that universities are far more open when it comes to controversial ideas than many of the people who claim that they're indoctrinating people into evil communist rhetoric about safe spaces, and who also happen to believe that disrespecting the american flag should get you punished. This guy did everything he could to upset people in order to prove a point, a few stupid people were upset and his collegues and the wider university community defended him. I don't like this whole stupid 'left-right' dichotomy, but I gurantee if this guy pressed the same buttons towards right-wing people as he did here in a 'leftist' university, I don't think he would be as treated as nicely as he has been in this case. He'd be sent death threats, doxxed and slandered. And the same people who are cawing about how universities are silencing people in this case would be calling him "that SJW university professor" as well as saying that the people harrassing him are just 'reacting' to his horrible display. People are only upset when people they think of as 'leftists' do something wrong. If a right-wing person does something wrong, they just say "oh well, they're just reacting to what the leftists are doing". It's so plain and obvious, I don't know how people's brains aren't liquifying from the sheer doublethink that's necessary. This isn't a 'both sides' issue. On the one hand, you've got people who are able to accept that left-wing people do bad things and right-wing people do bad things, there are no sides. On the other hand, you've got people who cannot accept their own 'side' doing anything wrong, so everything bad that happens in the world is the other 'sides' fault, because everything in their mind is seemingly black-and-white. When a left-wing person does something bad, it's automatically indicative of everything wrong with anyone who holds any views that could vaguely be considered left-wing. When a right-wing person does something bad, it's an isolated incident and even if it's not then they're just 'reacting' to the bad things that a left-wing person is doing. Any time a left-wing person does something wrong, it is the responsibility of this entirely vague amorphous blob called 'the left'. Any time a right-wing person does something wrong, it's downplayed and it doesn't matter.
[QUOTE=Zyler;53133205]Reminds me of a particular group of people who were upset about a certain flag being disrespected. If anything, this article shows that universities are far more open when it comes to controversial ideas than many of the people who claim that they're indoctrinating people into evil communist rhetoric about safe spaces, and who also happen to believe that disrespecting the american flag should get you punished. This guy did everything he could to upset people in order to prove a point, a few stupid people were upset and his collegues and the wider university community defended him. I don't like this whole stupid 'left-right' dichotomy, but I gurantee if this guy pressed the same buttons towards right-wing people as he did here in a 'leftist' university, I don't think he would be as treated as nicely as he has been in this case. He'd be sent death threats, doxxed and slandered. And the same people who are cawing about how universities are silencing people in this case would be calling him "that SJW university professor" as well as saying that the people harrassing him are just 'reacting' to his horrible display. People are only upset when people they think of as 'leftists' do something wrong. If a right-wing person does something wrong, they just say "oh well, they're just reacting to what the leftists are doing". It's so plain and obvious, I don't know how people's brains aren't liquifying from the sheer doublethink that's necessary. This isn't a 'both sides' issue. On the one hand, you've got people who are able to accept that left-wing people do bad things and right-wing people do bad things, there are no sides. On the other hand, you've got people who cannot accept their own 'side' doing anything wrong, so everything bad that happens in the world is the other 'sides' fault, because everything in their mind is seemingly black-and-white. When a left-wing person does something bad, it's automatically indicative of everything wrong with anyone who holds any views that could vaguely be considered left-wing. When a right-wing person does something bad, it's an isolated incident and even if it's not then they're just 'reacting' to the bad things that a left-wing person is doing. Any time a left-wing person does something wrong, it is the responsibility of this entirely vague amorphous blob called 'the left'. Any time a right-wing person does something wrong, it's downplayed and it doesn't matter.[/QUOTE] Yeah, we just need to stop talking about sides, and call out people who engage in the construction of such monoliths. The more anyone repeats the words "[sp]the left[/sp]" or "[sp]the right[/sp]" the more the perception of one big hivemind sharing all beliefs and collective responsibility is reinforced. That being said I've definitely used the terms before, but I don't think they're ultimately helpful at all.
I can't believe he said the n-word in front of students in a college class! For a w-word m-word to take out his latent r-word on a bunch of innocent s-words, in the current y-word is just unacceptable. I hope he gets f-worded (uhhh not the really bad one only the kind of bad one).
[QUOTE=Zyler;53133205]Reminds me of a particular group of people who were upset about a certain flag being disrespected. If anything, this article shows that universities are far more open when it comes to controversial ideas than many of the people who claim that they're indoctrinating people into evil communist rhetoric about safe spaces, and who also happen to believe that disrespecting the american flag should get you punished. This guy did everything he could to upset people in order to prove a point, a few stupid people were upset and his collegues and the wider university community defended him. I don't like this whole stupid 'left-right' dichotomy, but I gurantee if this guy pressed the same buttons towards right-wing people as he did here in a 'leftist' university, I don't think he would be as treated as nicely as he has been in this case. He'd be sent death threats, doxxed and slandered. And the same people who are cawing about how universities are silencing people in this case would be calling him "that SJW university professor" as well as saying that the people harrassing him are just 'reacting' to his horrible display. People are only upset when people they think of as 'leftists' do something wrong. If a right-wing person does something wrong, they just say "oh well, they're just reacting to what the leftists are doing". It's so plain and obvious, I don't know how people's brains aren't liquifying from the sheer doublethink that's necessary. This isn't a 'both sides' issue. On the one hand, you've got people who are able to accept that left-wing people do bad things and right-wing people do bad things, there are no sides. On the other hand, you've got people who cannot accept their own 'side' doing anything wrong, so everything bad that happens in the world is the other 'sides' fault, because everything in their mind is seemingly black-and-white. When a left-wing person does something bad, it's automatically indicative of everything wrong with anyone who holds any views that could vaguely be considered left-wing. When a right-wing person does something bad, it's an isolated incident and even if it's not then they're just 'reacting' to the bad things that a left-wing person is doing. Any time a left-wing person does something wrong, it is the responsibility of this entirely vague amorphous blob called 'the left'. Any time a right-wing person does something wrong, it's downplayed and it doesn't matter.[/QUOTE] C'mon man, you HAVE to see the contradiction in saying that you "don't like the whole stupid left-right dichotomy", then proceeding to completely stereotype people, separating them into a left-right dichotomy.....
[QUOTE=jimhowl33t;53131396]"Someone on my side of the political spectrum did something dumb and someone on the other side pointed it out, clearly it's a CONSPIRACY to destroy everything I believe in. People should NOT talk about my people's mistakes." Kinda sounds like /pol/shit tbh. Chill out, everyone is fallible no matter the political beliefs, and someone highlighting your side's fuckups doesn't mean the Fifth Reich is about to get you. If anything they're doing you a favor (not the nazis ofc), a major part of self-improvement comes from facing your (or your comrades') mistakes and working to fix them. To pretend your camp is flawless and to screech at the ones pointing out the contrary, is a step towards extremism.[/QUOTE] I'm not defending these people at all but I do think stuff like this is over reported.
How would they even differentiate between the different forms of the N word? A class like that would be bound to have to differentiate between "nigger" "negro" "negroid" "nigga" and other related words and slurs, while drawing the line between them in order to understand how hate speech evolves and comes into existance in the first place. It's literally not possible to just say "the n word" unless you want to go into "n word type 1" "n word type 2" and other inane bullcrap if you're in a proper class about something like that.
[QUOTE=Silence I Kill You;53133857]C'mon man, you HAVE to see the contradiction in saying that you "don't like the whole stupid left-right dichotomy", then proceeding to completely stereotype people, separating them into a left-right dichotomy.....[/QUOTE] Its not the left-right dichotomy, it's the 'people who agree with me can do bad things' and 'anyone who agrees me with me can do no wrong' dichotomy, you can see people in this very thread conducting the exact behaviour im describing. Im annoyed by both the nebulous amorphous blobs of [sp]the left[/sp] and [sp]the right[/sp]. Im willing to criticise people 'on my side' because, as far as Im concerned, there is no 'sides'.
University defended the professor, and he will likely continue to teach the course the next few years. Students are clearly in the wrong. Hopefully they grow from this experience and realize they missed out on a challenging and world changing class
[QUOTE=jimhowl33t;53131459]We live in a time where politics are polarized to hell and back and only seem to be getting worse. Shit sucks, but it's a reality we must acknowledge.[/QUOTE] you don't need to participate in identity politics to exist in a system that has them.
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