Uberchain speaks out on abuse within TF2 comp scene
52 replies, posted
A very self defeating attitude that cripples any attempt before you even make it.
That's completely wrong, and i've seen it happen to dozens of people. Including myself. I used to be an absolutely massive shithead and constantly spew racist and inflammatory stuff in chat all the time and I got away with it. After enough time of being told that you're wrong and why, you eventually understand and change for the better.
People change, it just takes something to change them, and being left to their own devices without any contest doesn't do that.
People change, IRL, not online. Funny you say, "people change". Yes, they do, but other puby teenagers take their place really fast and you can't do anything about it.
Again, the mentality of "why even try".
You're still wrong. I've seen plenty of people change, and it happens all the time. I've helped friends who were shitheads change. And yes, other kids take their place, but that's why you have to continue to keep trying to change them. Otherwise you get situations like this in the tf2 community, where it's not a majority of shitheads being kids, but adults instead.
It's so odd and distressing hearing about this terrible abuse and the awful things within comp TF2 because I've been playing TF2 since 2010 and there were periods when
the user-base was REALLY bad, like around 2012-2014 and it got better once "f2p" stopped being a slur and newer players got more invested and since then the community has, for the most part, done nothing but improve and mature
and become extremely sociable and very, very rarely do I meet the same type of pedestal dwelling, self absorbed, self-unaware, almost comically horrible people that popped up years ago after going F2P.
Very sad to see the worst elements of TF2's community come back in a more horrible and abusive form.
Or perhaps this is where they all went.
I’m sorry, but that “just ignore it like the good ol’ days” rhetoric needs to be taken out back behind the shed old yeller-style.
That was the same argument base (READ: not a COMPARISON of your comments, but the reasoning) that was used to defend slavery, and countless other terrible things that today more advanced societies realize are just that, so I’m going to ask that you put up a better argument than that one. Don’t insult the intelligence of everyone here.
And for that matter, “the good old days” were good for who, exactly?
Edgy teenage suburban white teenagers in thier parents basements, who had to worry much less about the consequence of their actions and as a result never learned the lesson growing up, into adult shitheads?
Yeah, I’m sure the old days were good for them, real good. But sadly they were even worse for everybody else who had to deal with the resulting crap from it.
Don’t take the piss here. This sort of thing is to be eradicated if we want the reputation of online gaming not to continue being thrown under the bus by the media, the government, and moral crusaders who hate anything they don’t understand or didn’t grow up with.
The mantle of responsibility is on all of us. You can’t push the mute button on that and expect things to get any better.
You can try, sure, but don't forget that the game is filled by 13 year olds spamming lenny binds. Also don't forget the fact that every third TF2 player has a Nazi sign on their objector because they think Its "funny".
Good luck trying to change this community nevertheless.
The community is small. You absolutely can change things by swaying opinion. League runners can punish players who show blatant disregard for their fellow players (yes, they are allowed to punish you for off-site behavior. Don't justify this by saying it's not their problem.) You can make victims of harassment comfortable enough to share their experience and not hide it, so they don't have to bottle it up.
If you think there's no merit to discussing this then you're a fucking moron, qubes.
On the subject of combating abuse, Valve really should follow the lead of Rainbow Six Siege and start automatically suspending people from matchmaking in all their games for using words like nigger and faggot. But I highly doubt they will do it, because it would make their revenue take a hit, and that's the only thing Valve cares about anymore.
Let's be real, that you can just deal with the mute button.
the culture won't change unless people take action against it
Mind if I confirm, haven't played in a while, but doesn't TF2 have a way to report players as well? You should ask them about that. CS:GO does, that's for sure.
You seem to have missed the 5-6 posts detailing down to the human interaction as to why this is wrong.
Because that was what a couple of people have said in various ways.
And myself and punchy, and others have debunked it.
Before going in deep, I can't fucking believe people have the guts to do this kind of garbage to a person like uberchain, just what kind of fucking vermin does one have to be?
But I personally raise extreme eyebrows on the "call-out the fucknuggets so they quit their shit" primarily based on personal experience. It's all anecdotal, but I used to be the kind of guy that would tell you to quit your shit if you were being a dickhead in Overwatch/TF2. What seems to usually happen is that these kind of people respond with some snarky comeback or just get angry, pissy and then decide to harass you in response. While in Overwatch reports will actually quite actively strap the user from their grip on the game if they continued to spout retarded nonsense, however in TF2 or other games, this sadly isn't the case.
Obviously those tools don't restrict themselves to game bans, but if you are just a bystander, calling them out just didn't seem to work. Has anyone else made experiences where calling some dickwad out made them change their ways?
I feel like these kind of people will only mature if they are effectively strapped from their game like a child that is forced by their mother to say "sorry" to the other kid they hit. A dude calling them out in an online game will be labeled white knight and laughed about.
In a way if the tools aren't given to properly punish these kind of people, I feel like the only kind of thing that can be done is to grow tougher skin as the victim of this garbage. This is such a shitty response to this kind of thing but I really feel hopeless when it comes to this kind of shit based on personal experience.
Obviously those tools don't restrict themselves to game bans, but if you are just a bystander, calling them out just didn't seem to work. Has anyone else made experiences where calling some dickwad out made them change their ways? Because as I have already stated, I have only seen that happen when they were actually massively punished (game ban). I certainly hope the experiences I made were just unlucky.
I've personally found that a lot of people are emboldened to act like shitheads because they don't really get any pushback; you're not going to be able to change their attitude in a single afternoon, but it does help. This especially goes for those who think they're being jokey/light-hearted about it, I've def seen it have an effect on those kind of people, especially if they're younger. People who seem...angry and use communication solely to be an arsehole, it has less of an effect, but it doesn't cost anything to tell them they're being an arsehole so ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Pred and degu are now banned from ETF2L, Pred till the end of the year and degu for 2 months. Highly suggest reading the post below, definitely some steps in the right direction.
Official statement | ETF2L
At least it's something.
The reactions to that in that thread are a little weird - before, people were saying that that kind of toxicity had no place and needed action; ETF2L takes action, and suddenly there's a load of people complaining about how it's overzealous and chucking whataboutism everywhere as if there's no point ever starting to bother?
I'm glad there's a lot of people taking a stance against the toxicity, but there's a lot of people who want everyone to just sweep it under the rug and shrug their shoulders, and I hope the latter doesn't deter continued action.
If you think that's bad, don't even look at TFTv right now.
From what I remember of playing around then, I don't remember the toxicity being worse then, though it definitely hit me harder when I had thinner skin. I feel like it's much more apparent now because we aren't playing very much on community servers with dedicated admins. I guess some of those admins were pretty bad too, but were a lot of well run servers and it seemed like problems got dealt with quickly. Now with MM there's a built in system for stacking teams and no admins, so we're left with the choices of either to leave or deal with it most of the time. The mute system works wonders, I don't know why I felt like I should just tolerate it as if they deserve any of my energy.
I hope the leagues are willing to put in the persistent effort to counter this. As these players didn't become this toxic overnight, so they certainly aren't going to change overnight if ever, but their damage can be minimized. The leagues probably have to have a very vague definition of toxicity, to be able to handle anything that comes up. I really don't want a a zero tolerance system for either competitive or in--game casual as occasional trashing talking and people having bad days isn't a problem, but persistent shitheads it a problem.
Toixc people are often quite dimwitted- you can easily tell who they are in the reactions by who’s attempting to write off or downplay these things.
Tbh that punishment for those two wasn’t nearly draconian enough to send a message, but, whatever, it’s something.
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