First off - don't tell me to play smarter or hide better or any of that crap. Admit it - the game is completely overrun by griefers and KOS. In 20 minutes of play (the last 3 times), I've been senselessly murdered while collecting rocks in the nude. Sorry guys, but I love the idea of this game, but it's unplayable on a server with more than 15 people. Can we have a constructive conversation about what could change in the game dynamic that would fix this?
Example:
Social points that enable or disable certain skins?
Store to buy items that are enabled or disabled based on your social standing?
Things that make you less desirable if you're evil - e.g. you glow red from the fires of the hell in which you will burn?
No PVP areas (enforced by CODE not honor)?
Bonuses for helping other players?
Point is - I'm going to have to give this game a rest for awhile, and not recommend it until this ridiculousness goes away.
Griefers are one thing that need to be dealt with, but the PvP element as it is now is part of the game. If you don't like it then maybe you can go on a PvE server or just quit the game altogether.
It's part of the game.. always has been and always well be... devs can't balance actions of others.. it makes no sense.. the only logical thing we CAN tell you is to play smarter.. survey your areas.. do rad runs... anything..
As others have said, the whole premise of the game is to let the community itself decide on how to play it. It isn't the game that is wrong it is the people that grief and kos. A lot of those examples you are suggesting are imo horrible because is detracts from the whole purpose of the game, survival of the fittest. To put bonus's on not killing and to punish those that kill is a horrible idea for a game with the sole idea of survival with the intent to allow others to kill. As you see people will start grouping into raiders and saviors so to speak, so to seperate them by giving them a skin for killing can and can not work, but the premise behind it can be abused or you end up screwing someone over trying to defend themselves. The goal is to make friends, if you are alone you need to start making friends or be extremely cautious i.e. always looking around when you go out in the open. A lot of the reasons you do not like this game are the sole reasons people flock to these games, it has a niche that is satisfying a lot of people. Dayz sold over a million copies of arm2 because of what you dislike about this game.
See the OP - if it is impossible to build even a dumb wood shelter because of KOS - it is literally impossible to play smarter. Fail.
Second - yes, dev's can (*and should) balance actions. It's up to them to implement the vision of the game as define by it's creator (NOT you)...
[QUOTE=TheDunkMaster;42761712]It's part of the game.. always has been and always well be... devs can't balance actions of others.. it makes no sense.. the only logical thing we CAN tell you is to play smarter.. survey your areas.. do rad runs... anything..[/QUOTE]
[editline]5th November 2013[/editline]
You said "It isn't the game that is wrong it is the people that grief and kos."
That's the first point I made. It's my subject line. Your answers are "play smarter" and "play with friends". Fine, if it's a social game, you can forget about working professionals, and you're stuck with students in which case I'm out. I'm not saying my ideas are right, I'm saying fix the first sentence of this post (that's in quotes).
Look - bottom line, it's not playable without a group or < 20 people online otherwise you die naked with a rock. I think it could be different.
[QUOTE=HoHos;42761765]As others have said, the whole premise of the game is to let the community itself decide on how to play it. It isn't the game that is wrong it is the people that grief and kos. A lot of those examples you are suggesting are imo horrible because is detracts from the whole purpose of the game, survival of the fittest. To put bonus's on not killing and to punish those that kill is a horrible idea for a game with the sole idea of survival with the intent to allow others to kill. As you see people will start grouping into raiders and saviors so to speak, so to seperate them by giving them a skin for killing can and can not work, but the premise behind it can be abused or you end up screwing someone over trying to defend themselves. The goal is to make friends, if you are alone you need to start making friends or be extremely cautious i.e. always looking around when you go out in the open. A lot of the reasons you do not like this game are the sole reasons people flock to these games, it has a niche that is satisfying a lot of people. Dayz sold over a million copies of arm2 because of what you dislike about this game.[/QUOTE]
[editline]5th November 2013[/editline]
You said "It isn't the game that is wrong it is the people that grief and kos."
That's the first point I made. It's my subject line. Your answers are "play smarter" and "play with friends". Fine, if it's a social game, you can forget about working professionals, and you're stuck with students in which case I'm out. I'm not saying my ideas are right, I'm saying fix the first sentence of this post (that's in quotes).
Look - bottom line, it's not playable without a group or < 20 people online otherwise you die naked with a rock. I think it could be different.
[QUOTE=HoHos;42761765]As others have said, the whole premise of the game is to let the community itself decide on how to play it. It isn't the game that is wrong it is the people that grief and kos. A lot of those examples you are suggesting are imo horrible because is detracts from the whole purpose of the game, survival of the fittest. To put bonus's on not killing and to punish those that kill is a horrible idea for a game with the sole idea of survival with the intent to allow others to kill. As you see people will start grouping into raiders and saviors so to speak, so to seperate them by giving them a skin for killing can and can not work, but the premise behind it can be abused or you end up screwing someone over trying to defend themselves. The goal is to make friends, if you are alone you need to start making friends or be extremely cautious i.e. always looking around when you go out in the open. A lot of the reasons you do not like this game are the sole reasons people flock to these games, it has a niche that is satisfying a lot of people. Dayz sold over a million copies of arm2 because of what you dislike about this game.[/QUOTE]
[editline]5th November 2013[/editline]
You said "It isn't the game that is wrong it is the people that grief and kos."
That's the first point I made. It's my subject line. Your answers are "play smarter" and "play with friends". Fine, if it's a social game, you can forget about working professionals, and you're stuck with students in which case I'm out. I'm not saying my ideas are right, I'm saying fix the first sentence of this post (that's in quotes).
Look - bottom line, it's not playable without a group or < 20 people online otherwise you die naked with a rock. I think it could be different.
[QUOTE=HoHos;42761765]As others have said, the whole premise of the game is to let the community itself decide on how to play it. It isn't the game that is wrong it is the people that grief and kos. A lot of those examples you are suggesting are imo horrible because is detracts from the whole purpose of the game, survival of the fittest. To put bonus's on not killing and to punish those that kill is a horrible idea for a game with the sole idea of survival with the intent to allow others to kill. As you see people will start grouping into raiders and saviors so to speak, so to seperate them by giving them a skin for killing can and can not work, but the premise behind it can be abused or you end up screwing someone over trying to defend themselves. The goal is to make friends, if you are alone you need to start making friends or be extremely cautious i.e. always looking around when you go out in the open. A lot of the reasons you do not like this game are the sole reasons people flock to these games, it has a niche that is satisfying a lot of people. Dayz sold over a million copies of arm2 because of what you dislike about this game.[/QUOTE]
Play on a pve server if you can't swim with the big fish. There are also plenty of games that match your preferred carebear rule set; play those instead of trying to ruin one of the few games that allow us the freedom to do what we want.
The only time i grief is when people are harassing a resource spawn.
They soon move out ;)
PVP is fine - but why murder naked people with nothing but rocks? Why would any new player to the game want to continue if they died 10 times before making so much as a campfire?
[QUOTE=injektmepls;42761703]Griefers are one thing that need to be dealt with, but the PvP element as it is now is part of the game. If you don't like it then maybe you can go on a PvE server or just quit the game altogether.[/QUOTE]
OP - I hear Hello Kitty has a fun social game you can play.
I have been playing this game solo for 2 weeks now and I have 0 complaints about the griefing/KOS. Just because you seem to have a bad time at it, doesn't mean someone else isn't having better success. For every one of you, there is someone actually surviving and getting stronger in the game. For you to say that because you personally can't cut it, the game needs to be lessened for the ones who are, is complete bullshit because then you are taking away from the people grinding it out and doing it right. There will always be a net 0 between good and bad players, so for you to fall towards the scale of a bad player, and request the game to be made easier for you to shift that scale is just wrong and I hope you do end up leaving this game if that's the gamer base you want. If you say you are playing as "smart" and "cautious" as possible, then I say you are a liar because I have been and do not see the issues you are facing. Instead of being greedy and getting that last node on your farm run, leaving you in the open a bit too late for a kev dude to come blast your baddie ass away, how bout you learn to farm less but more often, stick to the edges of the dead zones or farm at dusk when its changing light. There are many ways to survive on your own or in a very small group and if you are seriously complaining that a game built on the premise of survival is too tough to survive in, then maybe you shouldn't be playing one in the first place.
[QUOTE=CarpetShark;42762046]See the OP - if it is impossible to build even a dumb wood shelter because of KOS - it is literally impossible to play smarter. Fail.
Second - yes, dev's can (*and should) balance actions. It's up to them to implement the vision of the game as define by it's creator (NOT you)...
[editline]5th November 2013[/editline]
You said "It isn't the game that is wrong it is the people that grief and kos."
That's the first point I made. It's my subject line. Your answers are "play smarter" and "play with friends". Fine, if it's a social game, you can forget about working professionals, and you're stuck with students in which case I'm out. I'm not saying my ideas are right, I'm saying fix the first sentence of this post (that's in quotes).
Look - bottom line, it's not playable without a group or < 20 people online otherwise you die naked with a rock. I think it could be different.
[editline]5th November 2013[/editline]
You said "It isn't the game that is wrong it is the people that grief and kos."
That's the first point I made. It's my subject line. Your answers are "play smarter" and "play with friends". Fine, if it's a social game, you can forget about working professionals, and you're stuck with students in which case I'm out. I'm not saying my ideas are right, I'm saying fix the first sentence of this post (that's in quotes).
Look - bottom line, it's not playable without a group or < 20 people online otherwise you die naked with a rock. I think it could be different.
[editline]5th November 2013[/editline]
You said "It isn't the game that is wrong it is the people that grief and kos."
That's the first point I made. It's my subject line. Your answers are "play smarter" and "play with friends". Fine, if it's a social game, you can forget about working professionals, and you're stuck with students in which case I'm out. I'm not saying my ideas are right, I'm saying fix the first sentence of this post (that's in quotes).
Look - bottom line, it's not playable without a group or < 20 people online otherwise you die naked with a rock. I think it could be different.[/QUOTE]
Mmmk go be a good carebear and go to PvE then... problem solved...
I'm not surprised that there are no constructive comments here.
[QUOTE=Herding;42762189]I'm not surprised that there are no constructive comments here.[/QUOTE]
There are no constructive comments because it is not an actual issue in the game, it is an issue between skilled/unskilled players.
This will happen in every game, and if it does happen and you don't like it, you need to move on to a different game because there will never be a game that caters to every type of player.
look, i agree with your argument, but most ideas were unrealistic.
glowing red fires from hell?
I'm not even going to argue against that. NO.
a store?
in a game that you start out with nothing? in post-apocalyptic times, i would imagine there be no use for currency anyway.
but, as i said i agree with you - and you asked for a constructive conversation, so here it is:
how about if the game implemented more defensive things, like spikes and stuff to defend your home?
i like how the game makes you panic at the start, to rush and get some sort of shelter to hide, i don't want that ruined.
cheers,
Curt
[QUOTE=HerpeSlurpee;42762209]There are no constructive comments because it is not an actual issue in the game, it is an issue between skilled/unskilled players.
This will happen in every game, and if it does happen and you don't like it, you need to move on to a different game because there will never be a game that caters to every type of player.[/QUOTE]
^
this
I would use other words than skilled/unskilled players, most probably loner/someone that has friends lol.
As some people brought up, if you don't have friends, you are well fucked in this game. Remember, it's an alpha, it's not finished yet. A lot of mechanics might change like the implementation of the falling damage, makes you need to think twice where your going. Unfortunately for you, people in survival games are most likely to shoot people on sight.. Why? Because the last time they tried to be friendly with someone that was little dressed/naked shot them straight to the face.. More than only once..
Why do I sometimes kill people that are naked that I've been looking at from a good distance in the shadows? Because they end up having a shitton of materials I can use, without me having to gather them. Rule of life.. ME > YOU.
Bottom line : Go play PVE. If you can't deal with the PVP, everyone has their moments of nerd rage, I, for instance, am the angry canadian and I scream all the time when I'm getting raped. So what? It's still fun, and I play it because I enjoy it's up and it's downs..
[QUOTE=KataKlysme;42762330]^
this
I would use other words than skilled/unskilled players, most probably loner/someone that has friends lol.
As some people brought up, if you don't have friends, you are well fucked in this game. Remember, it's an alpha, it's not finished yet. A lot of mechanics might change like the implementation of the falling damage, makes you need to think twice where your going. Unfortunately for you, people in survival games are most likely to shoot people on sight.. Why? Because the last time they tried to be friendly with someone that was little dressed/naked shot them straight to the face.. More than only once..
Why do I sometimes kill people that are naked that I've been looking at from a good distance in the shadows? Because they end up having a shitton of materials I can use, without me having to gather them. Rule of life.. ME > YOU.
Bottom line : Go play PVE. If you can't deal with the PVP, everyone has their moments of nerd rage, I, for instance, am the angry canadian and I scream all the time when I'm getting raped. So what? It's still fun, and I play it because I enjoy it's up and it's downs..[/QUOTE]
Antoine, you da man
I don't really mind the pvp. Sure it's annoying to get killed over and over when you don't even have anything. But that's life for ya, lol.
However, when griefers are just random dicks blocking you inside a house, it's just plain retarded. There's nothing you can do but kill yourself and start from scratch.
[QUOTE=CarpetShark;42761665]First off - don't tell me to play smarter or hide better or any of that crap. Admit it - the game is completely overrun by griefers and KOS. In 20 minutes of play (the last 3 times), I've been senselessly murdered while collecting rocks in the nude. Sorry guys, but I love the idea of this game, but it's unplayable on a server with more than 15 people. Can we have a constructive conversation about what could change in the game dynamic that would fix this?
Example:
Social points that enable or disable certain skins?
Store to buy items that are enabled or disabled based on your social standing?
Things that make you less desirable if you're evil - e.g. you glow red from the fires of the hell in which you will burn?
No PVP areas (enforced by CODE not honor)?
Bonuses for helping other players?
Point is - I'm going to have to give this game a rest for awhile, and not recommend it until this ridiculousness goes away.[/QUOTE]
You do know that you're on the internet, correct?
[QUOTE=CarpetShark;42761665]First off - don't tell me to play smarter or hide better or any of that crap. Admit it - the game is completely overrun by griefers and KOS. In 20 minutes of play (the last 3 times), I've been senselessly murdered while collecting rocks in the nude. Sorry guys, but I love the idea of this game, but it's unplayable on a server with more than 15 people. Can we have a constructive conversation about what could change in the game dynamic that would fix this?
Example:
Social points that enable or disable certain skins?
Store to buy items that are enabled or disabled based on your social standing?
Things that make you less desirable if you're evil - e.g. you glow red from the fires of the hell in which you will burn?
No PVP areas (enforced by CODE not honor)?
Bonuses for helping other players?
Point is - I'm going to have to give this game a rest for awhile, and not recommend it until this ridiculousness goes away.[/QUOTE]
the map Helk is working on has 4 times the livable space the current map has, this will vastly change how pvp works in Rust, just give it some time
Well.... you aren't up shit creek if you go solo. On several severs I've run around mainly solo and managed to carve out a bit of gameplay. It can be hard work as there are some people that are just out to ruin your day and shoot you on sight regardless of what you have but you can do it. Problem is that death is cheap, even to the individual, and this kind of trend is to be expected when there are no consequences to bad behaviour.
It does make life a lot easier in a group of 2 or more but you can still do it solo. It might take you a lot longer and you might not be playing the way you would like to but scurrying around like a rat and doing tiny resource runs still make it very possible to play. Remember map design and resource placement may very well change as the game develops changing the way that it's played.
And heck... if you're tired of getting gunned down by the same people, just be a pain yourself and use the tools at your disposal to grief them. Just like you're getting tired of being killed all the time, they're going to eventually get tired of you planting 20 barricades in front of every one of their doors. What are they going to do? Kill you more?
KOS is definitely not ruining the game, in fact the ability to KOS is a core element of the game is it is based on survival, why shouldn't i be able to murder the guy taking valuable resources by my house?
Steps should be taken to mitigate certain forms of grieifing, like ramping peoples doors, but to a certain extent certain forms of griefing always will be here and it should remain that way, as not to restrict what is supposed to be a completely player driven experience.
I myself have had several successful bases completely solo on servers that average 80-100 people.
Here are some tips to keep you alive.
1. Play more than 20 minutes. No shit you are going to die repeatedly your first 20 minutes.
2. Keep an eye out. If you are trying to start and get some resources for a base, constantly look around to make sure you don't see any one. If you see literally any one and you don't have a sleeping bag down, just run.
3. Stay away from high volume areas. This includes anywhere near the road, and zombie zones that drop crates. My recommendations are close, but not quite in the dead zone, and mountains that are near water.
4. After you get a base established, try and make friends with other players you see. Obviously if they are in full kevlar, or are toting a big gun, just avoid them. I am a "working professional" (citation needed) and had no problems finding a group when I actually tried.
By giving my angry naked canadian neighbor some resources for him and his friends, we started a group with about 3-4 of us and now have about 7-8.
There are a few simple ways to resolve all KoS issues and it the one issue that PVPers will never agree to because they don't actually want PVP, they want superiority and dominance over other players.
If you want a TRUE SURVIVAL GAME: REMOVE ALL BASES. This way when you DIE you ARE DEAD and you START FROM ZERO AGAIN. After all, death is permanent.
OR
All doors/walls can be knocked down with a hatchet/rock + enough time.
Anyone who is against either of these idea is either
1. Too attached to your gear or
2. Someone who doesn't want to play an actual survival game.
CoD Ghosts is going live in a few minutes, you can go enjoy that if limitless gear and respawns are your thing.
These are the only solutions that will actually ever balance any game of this style. As long as people can build a house and store all their goodies so when they die they can run back and be fully geared in 2 minutes, there will never be balanced game play.
Me? I personally don't give 2 shits because my goal in life is to run around naked with a rock anyway.
BRING ON THE FLAME.
I don't even bother building a house until I have the metal door blueprints. I just do nude rock wielding runs through rad zones until I have them. Alternatively once you have a bow and arrow you can find a quiet spot and farm zombies as they only take 1 arrow to kill and can drop anything. Before the last wipe I had metal door, M4, shotgun, Mp5, C4, grenade and various armor blueprints before I'd even crafted a proper hatchet. The holy grail of drops is the research kit and paper, if that drops early just build a workbench behind some nearby rocks and run there to learn the blueprints.
[QUOTE=HerpeSlurpee;42762209]There are no constructive comments because it is not an actual issue in the game, it is an issue between skilled/unskilled players.
This will happen in every game, and if it does happen and you don't like it, you need to move on to a different game because there will never be a game that caters to every type of player.[/QUOTE]
This isn't true, the only reason why anyone KOS in these games BECAUSE they don't understand that there's more to these games than simply killing everyone you see, with that being said, the KOS mentality is brought to these games because of jackasses and PVP junky douches who see no other means of fun.
[QUOTE=Shnoogy;42763139]
If you want a TRUE SURVIVAL GAME: REMOVE ALL BASES. This way when you DIE you ARE DEAD and you START FROM ZERO AGAIN. After all, death is permanent.
[/QUOTE]
so you die and your base/gear despawns? or you don't actually even place a base? terrible idea. why would an [I]actual[/I] survival game do that? you'd have bases despawning all around you constantly and it would look shit
[QUOTE=Shnoogy;42763139]All doors/walls can be knocked down with a hatchet/rock + enough time.[/QUOTE]
also terrible - you should be made to work for that shit, not just put something heavy on your mouse and go afk for 5 minutes
[QUOTE=Shnoogy;42763139]Anyone who is against either of these idea is either
1. Too attached to your gear or
2. Someone who doesn't want to play an actual survival game.[/QUOTE]
or 3. completely against terrible and unconsidered decisions?
[QUOTE=Tyrael75;42763557]This isn't true, the only reason why anyone KOS in these games BECAUSE they don't understand that there's more to these games than simply killing everyone you see, with that being said, the KOS mentality is brought to these games because of jackasses and PVP junky douches who see no other means of fun.[/QUOTE]
people KOS because it's a survival game and you don't take those chances. pvp junkies? this is primarily a pvp game yet you';re complaining about people playing to pvp. its a hardcore deathmatch arena. and the reason most KOS nudes is because they're too lazy to gather mats themselves and the chances are is that those nudes have been
The only things the game needs are the next two things:
- Something to prevent griefing. I know you can place foundations with a pillar in the middle to avoid that but let's be honest, if you plan a 2x2 house it takes a lot of time (if you play alone) to have the wood needed for the 2x2 house plus the foundations around.
I've seen how people are that even in a 3x3 foundation structure with pillars, just placed ramps and stairs randomly just to grief.
There should be some way to prevent it. I don't want a system that forbids me to build close to a foundation that is not mine, because that way you wouldn't be able to raid a house and claim it to you, instead, some other way should be implemented.
Maybe you need to place your foundation close to another foundation of yours (or close to a friend's when friend system is implemented) something like that.
- The other thing, is not to prevent KOS really is just to make the game worth if you want to be a "hero" instead of a "bandit". Something like allow "hero" people to craft or build certain items, would be nice, just small items, I don't know, for example, if you are HERO you are able to build AK which is just a 0.5% better than a M4 or even exactly the same, but those small things (which would be a skin for a weapon if we make it with the same stats) would give some reason to be a "hero". Of course wouldn't be only crafting but using it also, so when you see people with AK you can trust them (just an example, it hasn't to be an AK).
Other small thing, "heros" could craft I don't know, a different coloured version of the kevlar items, or something like that.
I would make a social system, just simple, that will give you the ability to craft skin-variations of the current items available ingame.
You could lose "humanity" by killing people with more humanity than you or earn it if they have more, but something simple, the idea is to make it worth, somehow, to be a hero, because for now, gives much more compensation to be a clan of bandits than a clan of heroes.
That's my opinion.
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