Tool raiding is too easy now. You can destroy a stone wall in 5min with a pickaxe but you need 90min crafting time for 2C4. This is very unbalanced. Many little groups will be raided very often because its too easy to destroy a stone wall with pickaxes.
[QUOTE=ACtive_Simon;47670392]Tool raiding is too easy now. You can destroy a stone wall in 5min with a pickaxe but you need 90min crafting time for 2C4. This is very unbalanced. Many little groups will be raided very often because its too easy to destroy a stone wall with pickaxes.[/QUOTE]
It actually takes multiple pickaxes, not "a" pickaxe.
That's the point of metal walls. They're resistant to tools. That's the natural progression of walls:
Twig: cheap to build, easy to destroy with the default rock
Wood: fairly cheap to build, easy to destroy with tools
Stone: A little more expensive to build, fairly easy to destroy with tools
Metal: Slightly more expensive, very difficult to breech with tools, requires C4
Armor: Most expensive, very difficult with tools, requires 2-4 C4
Sheet wall is marginaly better than stone, it is a myth that they resist tools. Takes 2 hits per hp so 600 hits you are done. Stone is 200 ish hits. Armored 2000 hits. And yes even armored can be tooled to death, been there, done that.
[QUOTE='Deicide[RS];47670636']Sheet wall is marginaly better than stone, it is a myth that they resist tools. Takes 2 hits per hp so 600 hits you are done. Stone is 200 ish hits. Armored 2000 hits. And yes even armored can be tooled to death, been there, done that.[/QUOTE]
yeah but watch how many picks you go through comparatively with metal.
he said little groups can be raided easily not groups that can afford metal walls
[QUOTE=mrknifey;47671015]yeah but watch how many picks you go through comparatively with metal.[/QUOTE]
Same really, they don't wear any faster on metal vs stone, same exact thing.
[QUOTE=H-Soul;47671155]he said little groups can be raided easily not groups that can afford metal walls[/QUOTE]
Getting metal walls is easy. You need a furnace, and then 150 metal ore per wall. Refine the ore, upgrade away. Put down 3-5 furnaces and you'll have it done in no time. I can take my little 2x3 SoloHut (tm) to full armor in a single session, so it would be even easier for a small team to do it.
Only armored walls are secure against melee raiding. This make the stone tier useless. But i like stone houses and i have not so much time to upgrade all stone to armored. It s very expensive for one person or two persons.
Not to mention raiding tools get weaker every time you repair them. I've seen the hits on a wall decrease from 30+ to 4 hits before 1 identical pickaxe broke to smithereens...
Therefore it's not always that profitable as you might think. And you need several tools on you to raid. Because as stated above, 1 or 2 won't satisfy.
Build shitty base -> get raided -> ragequit -> cry on forum :dance:
[QUOTE=Endorian2;47673440]Therefore it's not always that profitable as you might think. And you need several tools on you to raid. Because as stated above, 1 or 2 won't satisfy.[/QUOTE]
Or you get people in your raiding party to carry around some wood and metal frags and build the tools as you need them. And then you ditch them on site rather than repair. At best you get 1 repair on pick axes used in raiding before they're useless and break in a few hits. Repairing is more costly than just building a new one.
[QUOTE=Yanglegend;47673453]Build shitty base -> get raided -> ragequit -> cry on forum :dance:[/QUOTE]
Nope. I build smart houses. I calculate the security/cost. But i dont like the fact that melee raiding is so easy and need no skill. Clicking 5min the mouse cant be a good raiding solution.
I think it takes around 30 fresh pickaxes to take down an Armored wall. That's 1500 metal frags, and 3000 wood - not very expensive considering the cost of C4
You get 4 guys pounding on the wall with a queue of pickaxes crafting and it's easily doable. If everyone stands in the right place you can get 6-8 people on a wall. It's even easier if you just use 1-2 C4 to lower the health and then finish it off with the pickaxes.
Metal is even easier, and stone is the easiest (not counting wood or twig).
I don't mind the fact a pickaxe can take down metal or armored. However, it should take at least 50-60 of them to take out an armored wall.
It would be nice if metal was given 325-350 HP so that one C4 wouldn't completely take it out, and you had to finish it with a tool, C4, or a couple grenades.
There is another way for a defense.
You can build 3 hangars, one hangar in second one the last one /smallest/ inside those two.
You neef to build stone hangar, then you can build sheet metal hangar inside. As last structure you make armored safe house inside other structures.
I didnt test it yet.
Raiders need to use pickaxes and c4.
Finding a C4 bp is hard enough, nerfing tool raiding will lock a lot of people out of any sort of raiding. I like to raid but sometimes finding a C4 bp is nearly impossible so I use tools to raid instead. Nerfing tool raiding will mean I won't be able to raid at all, essentially locking half the game for me.
Either leave tool raiding as is or increase C4 bp droprate
Destroying a stone wall is not 5minutes, is more like 20 minutes, and 8 pickaxes which requires 16 minutes of crafting ( i know you can craft while you pickaxe). I agree that pickaxing a stone wall require less time overall than using C4, but on the spot, it result in a very long and vulnerable raid, which is a big disadvatage.
Stone walls were never supposed to be immune to tool raiding. It seems you just have trouble to adapt to the gameplay and you want your stone house to be invincible to anybody without C4. Upgrade to armor, build up, build many layers. its not that hard. I personally like that there are alternatives to C4, and once you know it you how to defend against it.
Raiding with C4 will always be easier because it destroy the wall instantly, vs spending a long time in front of the wall on the outside. And farming sulfur for 1 C4 can be done in 20 minutes if you live in an area with lots of stone nodes. when you have like 30k sulfur, you craft your gun powder overnight, afk, so its not like you need to be there 90 minutes in front of your screen doing nothing but waiting.
Yeah raiding with C4 or tools both have advantages and disadvantages. C4 is fast, which means you go in and go out. Tools are cheaper but you need to stand near the wall for quite a while. It gets even more tedious if there's more than 1 wall, which increases the risk of you getting killed.
Stone is pretty much the middle ground which can be raided with either tools or c4 with relatively same effect.
If you don't want to be tool raided, upgrade your walls.
[QUOTE=ACtive_Simon;47673280]Only armored walls are secure against melee raiding. This make the stone tier useless. [/QUOTE]
False. Armored walls are not secure against melee, they are just tougher, and take about 3x as many hits as a stone wall to destroy. None of the tiers are useless, they all have their place, depending on your needs and resources available.
Armoured tier is relatively secure against solo raiders or small groups without C4. The amount of time it takes to get through one makes tool raiding impractical. But it's not impervious by any means. If you can soften it up with a couple of C4 or rockets first, it's actually not that secure at all.
[QUOTE=Yanglegend;47673453]Build shitty base -> get raided -> ragequit -> cry on forum :dance:[/QUOTE]
Quoting for truth.
You have no idea how many "players" I deal with on a daily basis who scream and whine about their base getting raided. "But I had double armor walls with stone blocks in between! They MUST have been hacking, how much more proof do you need?" Yeah, well, your foundations were stone.
There are posters who won't be satisfied until raiding is impossible. Raiding is the most balanced it's ever been. I'd love to see wall-smashing give way to more realistic methods of B&E (lockpicking, prying window bars, etc), but at the moment, it still takes time and effort to get inside. To this end all of my servers have a decent number of decoy basis constructed that exist solely to waste C4. This teaches raiders a helpful lesson that raiding isn't always worth it. :)
[QUOTE=Maximum Over;47679233]To this end all of my servers have a decent number of decoy basis constructed that exist solely to waste C4. This teaches raiders a helpful lesson that raiding isn't always worth it. :)[/QUOTE]
I do that around my base too. I also put some furnaces with nothing but wood inside to make them feel less like decoys. One of them got raided and they took all the wood heh.
[QUOTE=Maximum Over;47679233]You have no idea how many "players" I deal with on a daily basis who scream and whine about their base getting raided. "But I had double armor walls with stone blocks in between! They MUST have been hacking, how much more proof do you need?" Yeah, well, your foundations were stone.[/QUOTE]
I used to hear about "hacks" on the server because people couldn't figure out how I raided their shitty bases. Now that I'm an admin, they scream admin abuse instead. Rather than learning from what they did wrong, they just whine and leave, only to get get pwned on another server and cry hacks / abuse there too.
Stone foundations with armour walls is one of the most common cases. I can't even count how many times I've come across this.
Another big one is leaving the main tool cupboard exposed or in a wood room on the ground floor of an elevator base. Like really? WTF? Then they cry hack / abuse after being raided.
And of course, my all time favourite is idiots who build an all stone base but then put the tool cupboard in an armoured 1x1 along the outer wall that everyone can see from outside. Way to go, morons. You just gave away the position of your tool cupboard.
Bads will be bads. And instead of learning from their mistake, they go do the same thing again, get raided again, and whine some more.
I m not flaming that i was raided. I does only want a better game for all of us :)
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