Snipers - Rust - Facepunch Forum

I noticed that in the new update a bolt action rifle was added, which I can only guess is a longer name for a sniper rifle. It's not a deal breaker for me, but I was very pleased to play a game in which the developers haven't caved in to the CoD/CS players demand of sniper rifles... In my opinion sniper rifles have no real gameplay value in any sort of game, but particularly in this kind of survival-sandbox game. Snipers can only be used for two things in first person shooters - sniping from distance or exploiting at close range. I believe people sitting around on a rock or in a locked house with a rifle just shooting people for nothing will enrich the game in about the same amount as adding trap trees that insta-kill you when you chop them. As for the close range exploiting (quick scopes, no scopes etc), I hope everyone will agree that it's just unnecessary and extremely non realistic, the game has shotguns, SMGs and pistols which are more than enough for middle and close range. Snipers in most non-mainstream FPSs are usually a pointless feature that's just a desperate attempt to enlarge the target audience by giving all the bad COD CS etc players something they like, but in expense of unbalancing the game and risking at spoiling the game experience for all the other players (Those forgotten group of players who actually like to play the game the way it's supposed to and not just fuck around and be a jerk to everyone). As I said I'm not going to stop playing because of this addition, but I felt disappointed enough to sign up the forum and post about it, and I hope some players will agree. Thank you and I hope this gets to the developers so they can at least consider this point of view (Oh and feel free to comment)

A rifle isn't always a sniper.

[QUOTE=GND;43240835]Snipers in most non-mainstream FPSs are usually a pointless feature that's just a desperate attempt to enlarge the target audience by giving all the bad COD CS etc players something they like, but in expense of unbalancing the game and risking at spoiling the game experience for all the other players (Those forgotten group of players who actually like to play the game the way it's supposed to and not just fuck around and be a jerk to everyone). [/QUOTE] It would appear you have no idea how marketing works. Let me clue you in a bit.... Adding this in hopes to catch some attention from other FPS gamers who may play CoD or CS, etc... isn't a bad thing at all. It's actually ingenious to cave in to for FPS players considering they not only earn the $20 for the game, but get more referrals to the game if people like it. It's target-marketing and it's a strategy used to draw attention to a demographic which in turn provides more sales and revenue. Economics dude. You really shouldn't have brought this one up. It actually is a losing argument from any persons standpoint. While you don't like it, it generates sales and revenue. You can't make a game without paying your employees or people working on the project. They want to be paid as well, and if they aren't, the game won't be produced. Kickstarters are a prime example of this. If you were so disappointed in signing up for the forums to rant about this, you probably shouldn't have. I'm not discouraging you from voicing your opinion, but when it comes to business... business marketing strategies will ALWAYS trump your opinion. Especially if it grabs the attention of CoD / other major FPS gamers.

[QUOTE=huNt3r87;43240975]It would appear you have no idea how marketing works. Let me clue you in a bit.... Adding this in hopes to catch some attention from other FPS gamers who may play CoD or CS, etc... isn't a bad thing at all. It's actually ingenious to cave in to for FPS players considering they not only earn the $20 for the game, but get more referrals to the game if people like it. It's target-marketing and it's a strategy used to draw attention to a demographic which in turn provides more sales and revenue. Economics dude. You really shouldn't have brought this one up. It actually is a losing argument from any persons standpoint. While you don't like it, it generates sales and revenue. You can't make a game without paying your employees or people working on the project. They want to be paid as well, and if they aren't, the game won't be produced. Kickstarters are a prime example of this. If you were so disappointed in signing up for the forums to rant about this, you probably shouldn't have. I'm not discouraging you from voicing your opinion, but when it comes to business... business marketing strategies will ALWAYS trump your opinion. Especially if it grabs the attention of CoD / other major FPS gamers.[/QUOTE] You're comment can not be any more true, and I was actually hoping somebody will bring this argument up so I can answer it. Yes, the noob community is HUGE. Like, really enormously gigantic. BUT, if you only want to make money out of them, why not just make a CoD clone? So companies actually made LOTS of wannabe-mainstream-tdm-shooters, and still are making. Blacklight, Homefront and tons of others. About once a month a friend tries to get me to play a new shooter and it turns out to be the same with a different setting. They all try to create as much buzz and hype as possible and end up as a mediocre success and are forgotten when there's a new one coming out. But this game isn't one of these games. The bigger problem is that even games that are made for completely different audience still try to attract the CoD newb horde. In my opinion this kind of plan will just ruin the game as a whole, because it'll just repel the base audience, the players who actually want to play the game and not just pop heads. Of course this isn't my decision, but I think it's important for the developers to also hear the non CoD noob audience, and that's what I'm trying to do. I've been looking for this kind of game for a long time, and I'd like the developers to know that selling the game out upsets the players, and maybe then they might decide it's a bad choice.

[QUOTE=GND;43241399]You're comment can not be any more true, and I was actually hoping somebody will bring this argument up so I can answer it. Yes, the noob community is HUGE. Like, really enormously gigantic. BUT, if you only want to make money out of them, why not just make a CoD clone? So companies actually made LOTS of wannabe-mainstream-tdm-shooters, and still are making. Blacklight, Homefront and tons of others. About once a month a friend tries to get me to play a new shooter and it turns out to be the same with a different setting. They all try to create as much buzz and hype as possible and end up as a mediocre success and are forgotten when there's a new one coming out. But this game isn't one of these games. The bigger problem is that even games that are made for completely different audience still try to attract the CoD newb horde. In my opinion this kind of plan will just ruin the game as a whole, because it'll just repel the base audience, the players who actually want to play the game and not just pop heads. Of course this isn't my decision, but I think it's important for the developers to also hear the non CoD noob audience, and that's what I'm trying to do. I've been looking for this kind of game for a long time, and I'd like the developers to know that selling the game out upsets the players, and maybe then they might decide it's a bad choice.[/QUOTE] While I understand what you're attempting to make clear... the bottom line is that it attracts more players, earns more money, and ultimately allows the project to continue on. However, I think the developers are very aware that they don't want a CoD clone on their hands, and will limit the amount of Rifles that would ultimately end up becoming a sniper-fest. If anything, they will probably add a 2/4x magnification sight and a Remington / other Semi-Automatic rifle that would rival the Bolt-Action or at least make it more of a wanted firearm within the game. Not only does this increase survivability for those who are skilled enough to use them wisely, but it controls the flow of gameplay and ultimately will grab the attention of those looking for a true survival game. Now while it will attract the newb horde, the newb horde won't necessarily be catered to. This will weed out the CoD enthusiasts as well as the players who don't grasp the concept of the game and what makes it so much fun. I totally understand your points, I just think you're anticipating them to be like the WarZ developers were. They even changed their game name to Survivor Stories. Changing the game name, doesn't change the fact they're a shit developer (Hammerpoint). Facepunch is LIGHT YEARS beyond what WarZ was and still is. In fact, I'd venture to say it rivals DayZ for the most part. There are some portions of DayZ that will be an attention grabber surely, but this game has the potential and the staff to rip it apart piece by piece, regardless of their marketing strategy. Just stick around and see man. Don't let one addition and update/change detach you from the core element of the game that makes it fun and enjoyable.

How the hell will a bolt action rifle, the MOST expensive weapon in the game, attract a horde of "CoD newbs" Your implication (the entire basis of your argument) is that the bolt action rifle is blatant pandering to the mainstream FPS genre.. And you're wrong. You're literally taking this one new addition and going on to accuse the developers of selling out their game and focusing on the "CoD Crowd" for a few extra sales. That is plain bullshit, friend. There are no chest-high walls, there is no deathmatch mode, and there is nothing *casual* about this project. If they want to invest like the rest of us then let them go for it- you and I should both know they wouldn't keep playing for more than an in-game day.

I am not saying that this is it, Facepunch have officially sold out and there's no point playing this game any more. My post is very specifically against sniper rifles in the game, as I am for a long time against sniper in a any video game. They always seem like a cool idea and a very good bit to put in trailers but it ends there. I have yet to play a single game in which I found sniper rifles adding to the game experience, and I have already stated why. The damage done to a game can be catastrophic though (any game). People tend to think "Well, if the feature will suck then players will just stop using it" but that is not true in reality. The mere fact that a feature exists makes players use it, because players try to get a "full" experience of the game. And so I've seen many beast Battlefield players camp in bushes only because there was an option to. For me the biggest disappointment in the whole gaming industry is the amazing underthinking of game balance. Sometimes more isn't merrier, and I can easily see a possible scenario in which a whole area is shut down because every day a different idiot decides to see how it is to shoot down everybody with a sniper rifle.

So let me ask you a question GND.... would you not use a long-range rifle in a setting like this in real life if it was available? If not... you've got some serious issues with the idea of 'survival at all costs' and would probably be dead in a matter of minutes in an apocalyptic state of ruin.

[QUOTE=GND;43242089]I am not saying that this is it, Facepunch have officially sold out and there's no point playing this game any more. My post is very specifically against sniper rifles in the game, as I am for a long time against sniper in a any video game. They always seem like a cool idea and a very good bit to put in trailers but it ends there. I have yet to play a single game in which I found sniper rifles adding to the game experience, and I have already stated why. The damage done to a game can be catastrophic though (any game). People tend to think "Well, if the feature will suck then players will just stop using it" but that is not true in reality. The mere fact that a feature exists makes players use it, because players try to get a "full" experience of the game. And so I've seen many beast Battlefield players camp in bushes only because there was an option to. For me the biggest disappointment in the whole gaming industry is the amazing underthinking of game balance. Sometimes more isn't merrier, and I can easily see a possible scenario in which a whole area is shut down because every day a different idiot decides to see how it is to shoot down everybody with a sniper rifle.[/QUOTE] dude its not a sniper, it does not have a 6x scope, the new patch has included gun sway, it will be hard even for people who have played the game since open alpha to get a headshot on you from 300m away, so stop your bitching because if you dont like it tough shit the devs put it in and im pretty sure they wont give a toss if you stop playing their game

I love the idea of a sniper rifle and I suck at first person shooters for the most part (haven't been good at one since Halo 2). Reason I like the idea is because it opens up a completely new element to this game being that you can design your bases differently, you can set up raids differently, etc. I think it should be super hard to make which seems to be the case. Hopefully after testing and all is completed it should be that 'revered' item that people try to get as it would be a difference maker. I think all the new items are nothing short of super exciting! It makes me wonder how the new chopper will be. I can see how someone would not like the idea of a rifle though.. just keep in mind this isn't a game where you should 'fall in love' with the stuff you get. Now if I can just get this rubberbanding/ghosting problem to go away this game will be awesome! lol

[QUOTE=GND;43240835]In my opinion sniper rifles have no real gameplay value in any sort of game[/QUOTE] This is a pretty retarded statement, compounded by the rest of your post. They would be great for defending your outposts. Also the map has enough obstacles that you don't have to worry about being annihilated from the other side of the map. Also not all bolt action rifles are considered sniper rifles. You'd rather easily pick up m4s everywhere than have a home made bolt action rifle in the game? The bolt action would be much easier to make than a modern weapon like an M4 as it is one of the most simple weapon designs.

OFFICIALLY sold out? Really? To whom and how? Please explain such a ludicrous statement. And why are you bringing Battlefield into this? A match-based FPS that pits 2 32-man teams against each other with specific objectives for every match. A game that asks you to put in a static amount of time (in the form of rank/experience) in order to access the arsenal for free from that point on? It does not have a focus on survival, attrition, or resources. Let me take a stab in the dark: you hear the crackle of a rifle and you get to ground. You don't care about kills, you don't care about objective-based points. You care about survivng the night, killing this guy who is trying to take out your homestead, and taking his stuff for yourself/your group. My point is that your experience on Call of Duty, Counterstrike, Battlefield, Medal of Honour, ETC. is completely irrelevant here.

[QUOTE=ghosevil;43242532]OFFICIALLY sold out? Really? To whom and how? Please explain such a ludicrous statement.[/QUOTE] Whaaaa...? With all due respect, some of you guys aren't even reading what I'm posting... You're just skipping to personal insults. One of you believes a real apocalypse would be fun to participate in, I don't really see how it's connected, but have fun when it occurs I guess. Some of you just think I'm here to insult the game so you just insult back, probably haven't read at all. One only says the developers don't give a shit about me (hope you're not a developer), so whats the forum for? Because none of you has bothered reading as far as this line, I'm won't even bother summarizing the point you are missing and end this respectfully. Bye to the adventurers who made it to line 6.

So let me get this straight, you think sniper rifles are not realistic?

[QUOTE=XD;43243172]So let me get this straight, you think sniper rifles are not realistic?[/QUOTE] I dont think thats what hes implying. I agree sniper rifles will take away more from the game than it can give. People will just camp resource spawns or greif people then camp their shack door or such.

Couple of things I'd like to add. The bolt action is by far not a sniper rifle as it has near the same range as an m4 with more sway. Furthermore, if you want to see a great implementation of a sniper rifle look at APB reloaded. The gun does about 85% damage which makes it a 2 shot kill. I'd also like to point out that cqc sniping is extremely difficult and requires a lot of practice. Snipers gave never been a game breaker. I always point this out if sniper rifles are so over powered why aren't you using one?

[QUOTE=GND;43243066]Whaaaa...? [/QUOTE] Your poor grammar made me misinterpret what you wrote, but go ahead and ignore the rest of my post.

"bad CS players"? you think the CS players at dreamhack who choose AWP are bad? would you like to have a go at them? if so, i'd love to watch it happen.

I think they're a lot of pros and cons of snipers. Pros: 1.) It will be a ton of fun sitting up on a rock in a resource valley and sniping noobs going for nodes. That will be sooo much fun. 2.) Sniping is a huge part of the military, and a single sniper can hold back an army for some time. Sniping will be helpful to kill those people who run from you while trying to raid. Cons: 1.) Quick scoping - This is by far the MOST annoying thing on any CoD, and any game. It's so unrealistic to have someone running around and instantly killing you with a sniper. Yes, I guess it is possible for this in real life, but to take shit on CoD, running around with a Barrett 0.50 Cal and shooting is so unrealistic. You would be knocked on your ass. My opinion: I really just hope quick scoping will NOT become a thing in Rust. I do believe that will ruin the game. I believe snipers should be a one shot kill it they hit you directly in the chest or head, because that's realistic, but if it's easy to QS I'm gonna be pissed.

[QUOTE=slowpokimus;43245795]"bad CS players"? you think the CS players at dreamhack who choose AWP are bad? would you like to have a go at them? if so, i'd love to watch it happen.[/QUOTE] lol the AWP in CS is the most dickish weapon, you can one-shot almost anywhere on the body :v: That's why I use it.

[QUOTE=GND;43240835]I noticed that in the new update a bolt action rifle was added, which I can only guess is a longer name for a sniper rifle. It's not a deal breaker for me, but I was very pleased to play a game in which the developers haven't caved in to the CoD/CS players demand of sniper rifles... In my opinion sniper rifles have no real gameplay value in any sort of game, but particularly in this kind of survival-sandbox game. Snipers can only be used for two things in first person shooters - sniping from distance or exploiting at close range. I believe people sitting around on a rock or in a locked house with a rifle just shooting people for nothing will enrich the game in about the same amount as adding trap trees that insta-kill you when you chop them. As for the close range exploiting (quick scopes, no scopes etc), I hope everyone will agree that it's just unnecessary and extremely non realistic, the game has shotguns, SMGs and pistols which are more than enough for middle and close range. Snipers in most non-mainstream FPSs are usually a pointless feature that's just a desperate attempt to enlarge the target audience by giving all the bad COD CS etc players something they like, but in expense of unbalancing the game and risking at spoiling the game experience for all the other players (Those forgotten group of players who actually like to play the game the way it's supposed to and not just fuck around and be a jerk to everyone). As I said I'm not going to stop playing because of this addition, but I felt disappointed enough to sign up the forum and post about it, and I hope some players will agree. Thank you and I hope this gets to the developers so they can at least consider this point of view (Oh and feel free to comment)[/QUOTE] There are many many players who would enjoy disguising themselves in the mountain while their friends go to gather and know they have some cover from their sniper team mate. Also when you go raiding it's nice to have a sniper to cover your back. Not everyone is going to sit in a mountain pointlessly killing random people. I for one REALLY want to see the 10x optic scope of something introduced along with a 2x acog for the m4.

To refute your points, sniping is very realistic, especiallyy with a bolt action rifle. But in a game map as large as rust, which is going to get even larger, it is both an asset and a burden, depending on its use. If some guy is going to sit on a mountain all day waiting for that one unsuspecting kill, he's going to get bored quickly. Like wise, if a spot some strangers heading near my house, it will give me time to fire a warning shot to turn them away. The problem isn't that the CoD/BF players will ruin the game, but that those who lack caution and mistake this fps/survival game for a Bear Grylls simulator want to limit the options the rest of us have in dealing with changing situations.

SMH.. Don't buy the game, if you are worried about change. [QUOTE]“We are in very early development. Some things work, some things don't. We haven't totally decided where the game is headed - so things will change. Things will change a lot. We might even make changes that you think are wrong. But we have a plan. It's in our interest to make the game awesome - so please trust us.” [/QUOTE] Game devs don't just make changes. They study changes. Besides, devs are active in-game, so if they experience alot of frustration, the might tone the gun down or even remove it. So stop complaining, because it won't make any difference.

[QUOTE=pillaw;43246294]I think they're a lot of pros and cons of snipers. Pros: 1.) It will be a ton of fun sitting up on a rock in a resource valley and sniping noobs going for nodes. That will be sooo much fun. 2.) Sniping is a huge part of the military, and a single sniper can hold back an army for some time. Sniping will be helpful to kill those people who run from you while trying to raid. Cons: 1.) Quick scoping - This is by far the MOST annoying thing on any CoD, and any game. It's so unrealistic to have someone running around and instantly killing you with a sniper. Yes, I guess it is possible for this in real life, but to take shit on CoD, running around with a Barrett 0.50 Cal and shooting is so unrealistic. You would be knocked on your ass. My opinion: I really just hope quick scoping will NOT become a thing in Rust. I do believe that will ruin the game. I believe snipers should be a one shot kill it they hit you directly in the chest or head, because that's realistic, but if it's easy to QS I'm gonna be pissed.[/QUOTE] My only concern in regards to sniping is everyone referencing Call of Duty. It's sad that the younger generation of gamers don't realize CoD was by far not the first, First Person Shooter, to hit mass market and have millions of people playing it. We all owe our roots to games like Wolfenstein, Doom, etc And CoD started as a WWII game, it wasn't until the last six or seven years did it become a more modern run-n-gun shooter where action and easy kills are handed to you on a silver platter. And there are better games to compare sniping too than CoD. Just because CoD's physics and game engine allow you to run up and quick scope someone doesn't mean it's the definition of sniper gameplay. As a fan of DayZ, being built on a military simulation engine, a real sniping experience involves ranging your target, accounting for bullet drop, etc Maybe Garry and the devs will take it that way at some point but CoD sniping isn't the best example of how I'd make a comparative argument, in my opinion.

[QUOTE=Maverickroll;43248542]My only concern in regards to sniping is everyone referencing Call of Duty. It's sad that the younger generation of gamers don't realize CoD was by far not the first, First Person Shooter, to hit mass market and have millions of people playing it. We all owe our roots to games like Wolfenstein, Doom, etc And CoD started as a WWII game, it wasn't until the last six or seven years did it become a more modern run-n-gun shooter where action and easy kills are handed to you on a silver platter. And there are better games to compare sniping too than CoD. Just because CoD's physics and game engine allow you to run up and quick scope someone doesn't mean it's the definition of sniper gameplay. As a fan of DayZ, being built on a military simulation engine, a real sniping experience involves ranging your target, accounting for bullet drop, etc Maybe Garry and the devs will take it that way at some point but CoD sniping isn't the best example of how I'd make a comparative argument, in my opinion.[/QUOTE] Give this man a cookie. This^

Its not a sniper

[QUOTE=Stick it in her pooper;43248693]Its not a sniper[/QUOTE] [B]bolt. action. rifle.[/B]

When I hide behind a rock and 5 people spray their magazines into that rock, I think of Cod. When I hear sporadic gunshots in the distance because amunition is scarce I think of Rust :). In a survival situation such as this, a single shot rifle with a long range would be preferable due to the fact that you can only find so many rounds to fire, no? I think its an appropriate weapon, but I would like to see amunition being even rarer for it, using 556 that everyone can easily craft makes sniping people for shits and giggles a "thing".