Suggestion: Towns, Resources, Politics and a player-driven economy.
18 replies, posted
[B]Suggestion: Towns, Resources, Politics and a player-driven economy.[/B]
So I’ve been playing Rust for the past two weeks- both as a lone player and within a large group (15+).
Rust, even though it is early alpha- is a fantastic, suspense-filled game that can be horrifying and adrenaline pumping. Rust can also be hugely rewarding or soul dampening cruel. The only rules are the ones players impose on themselves. This has interesting consequences and the results are often hilarious.
I lead the 10-15 members of my group- and we kill everyone on sight- except players who aren't on our teamspeak. I have no regard for other players within Rust- which interestingly, do not always influence the playing style of the other members within my group. However, after a large battle against another band of players (Jesters vs Facepunch) I have yet to experience a more exciting, adrenaline pumping part of the game. The real question is- what if these group battles had a real driving purpose? what if there real consequences?
“[I]Our job should be to give the players the tools they need. If you’re sick of getting killed – start a town. Build town walls. Give all the town members red clothes[/I]”
As you can see, the developers have stated their interest in giving players the tools they need to start a town, or make a safer place. Right now, we have built our town (or simply an unsightly amount of houses in my opinion) Our town is located around three different resource spawning pools. All three resource pools spawn an infinite amount of food, wood, sulphur and metal. We are in need for nothing- and we kill the lonely traveler simply for fun- which I feel should be changed.
[U][B]Before making the following points I acknowledge the game is very early alpha. I also acknowledge that the game is epic[/B][/U]
[B]Make it harder to obtain weapons[/B]/
Weapons are way too easy to obtain. After a couple of days- everyone and their mum is packing an M4. The higher tier weapons- the m4, shotgun and mp5 should require a lot more effort than simply crafting metal fragments.
The higher tier weapons should require a wide variety of different resources types (which should be found in different spawns around the map) such as Steel ores, Iron ores, Copper, Aluminium, and Bronze. Obtaining these ores should require travelling and excursions into other areas of the map. A powerful weapon- such as an M4, should be a rarity- and a reward for a high level of risk. A hatchet, pickaxe or pistol should also more difficult to obtain- requiring only the common resources to reproduce.
[B]Decentralize the resources spawns[/B]/
I know the developers have yet to expand on other areas of the map. I feel that the current spawns of wood/ food and metals are very close together (possibly too close). However I acknowledge that they are essential for the newer players spawning into rust. [U]Newer players should always have relatively easy access to basic resources such as wood and food[/U]. This should at least give the noobs a fighting chance against players like me as well as retaining more players. Players like me should have no reason to farm noobs entering rust. This tactic should make me consider the positives of attacking noobs except for anything else but trolling and griefing. Attacking new players should cost players like me a lot more resources than 6/7 gunpowders and metal fragments. My bullets should have a real cost- similar to the resource requirements I’ve suggested above.
Move the rarer, more precious resource spawns to the further areas of the map. Place the zinc ore spawns to the northwest, the iron ores to the east, and the copper ores to the west. The placement of these ores into different regions will create tension and conflict or maybe it will generate co-operation between players (whatever you’re into).
[B]Different tech[/B]/
Hatchets and pickaxes should require resources to maintain and fix. A metal door- should require a different variety or resources to build. Wooden huts/ building should require wooden resources and metal nails+ screws to maintain. What about stone walls? Introduce stone quarry/ gravel pit spawns in further locations in the map. It should require a huge amount of effort to build a stone house- but they would require a lot less materials to maintain and would provide a greater degree of protection. Players should be safer in a walled town/ house, rather than a shanty shack. I don't agree with statutory "tech trees", but players should feel that in order to gain more powerful weapons items/ more defensible structures, they need to move to different areas of the map.
[B]Player-driven economy[/B]/
There are so many resources types that could be added to diversify the game and create competition, trading and potentially- an in-game economy that is solely player-driven. I’m not talking about an economy with gold coins or money- In a post-apocalyptic world- the economy should consist of the resources I've listen above.
What’s to stop a trading deal going sour? What’s to stop different groups operating a lucrative trading agreement and achieving greatness. Nothing, except other players. Players should have good reasons for bartering- advanced construction materials should be rare, region-specific ores should be rarer- and building cars, vehicles and a safe town should be extremely difficult, but not impossible. An in-game economy, does not need attention from the devs. If the resources are rare and difficult to acquire- then trading would naturally occur OR large battles would occur for region-specific resource spawns. There should be a risk vs reward and region-specific resource spawns should be dangerous environments with aggressive NPC's
“[I]Our job should be to give the players the tools they need[/I]”
I think the developer’s plan of introducing different colors of clothing to differentiate friend from foe is a great idea. The clothes- like weapons should also require different resources- that can also be implemented into the suggestion above. Different colors of Dyes should also be region-specific as well as different herds of animals which drop different materials.
The most difficult thing at the moment in a large group is trying to tell the difference between friend and foe. Large town wouldn't work with the current mechanics. In my experience, it’s nearly impossible to function effectively and efficiently in groups larger than 10. Even within teamspeak it’s very difficult. The devs have discussed about different clothing - however I feel that achieving a functioning community in rust would require more than this. In game voice is something that is desirable- as well as some way of making a map and a compass. I’m not talking about an in-game UI system- but possibly the introduction of some sort of lobby i.e- a tattered map with rough drawings of densely-populated areas. As soon as you enter the game, you have no access to this map and this map is only updated through api every 24 hours or so.
[B]Politics[/B]/
If the developers decide to create and design resource spawns or items that require resources from different areas of the map as well as introduce tools available for groups and communities to function more efficiently- the political aspect of the game will take care of itself. There should always be room for the little guy i.e skilled loners, bandits and hunters. However the group element of this game is great and it has so much potential. I feel that groups like Psy Psyndicate, facepunchers and Jesters have all experienced the adrenaline pumping action of a large battle and could contribute so much to the devs in terms of how to improve the game for groups. Even smaller players are awed when they stumble across a large firefight between groups.
[B]Conclusion[/B]/
Unfortunately- as stated above- there is little reason for groups to fight each other for reasons other than fun/ dick measuring. When a group becomes organised it’s likely that they have 10+ M4’s in storage. Controlling multiple resource spawns becomes simple and the majority of single players living within close proximity of a large group quickly gets swept aside or beat into the ground. Groups and experienced players should not simply WANT to move into deeper areas of the map- they should NEED to in order for the groups survival against other groups. Moving into deeper territory should be rewarding and the prospect of attacking the newbies at spawn should be the very last thing on a groups mind.
This is coming from a guy who regularly leads a group of 10-15 guys and beats down the single players of the game. I completely understand that this game is in early alpha- this is simply the feedback i'm giving from playing.
I love your invigorating ideas. I especially adore the idea of making it harder to obtain weapons. Unfortunately I haven't received a key so I have been drowning my sorrows by watching live streamers.
Since I've been watching these streams I have noticed that it takes about 10 minutes or less to become fully leathered, geared with m4s, and have unlimited med kits. Thanks for suggesting the over powered crafting system and high hopes that it will get nerfed.
Wow. Just wow.
These ideas are great! You've really put a lot of thought into all of your concepts.
wow nice thinking haha! I love watching people play rust and CAN NOT wait until i can buy it!
My only concern about making good items super rare is that nobody will then ever use them. You will have the majority of the game be noobs with hatchets, or good players using pistols.
Also like you said, you got pumped when you had that BIG fight with everyone using their m4s etc...
Do you think it will be possible to continuously have these types of fights if everyone is to scared to lose their rare gear?
*EDIT (don't know why i cant edit my original post)
[B]Boundaries/ Griefing tactics[/B]*
Players are easily able to grief new players into their newly built huts by placing foundations on the outside of their doors. If the huts had some form of boundary (even if its a 3 meter boundary) that prevented the placement of objects outside their entrance. It would stop dicks like me doing the following and causing players to rage quit the game. The player I did this to, rage logged once he realised i'd trapped his entrance and I don't think he knew how to command himself out of the hut. Even if he did- I could have easily killed him and taken all of his things anyway.
Yes they can type "do unstick" but not everyone knows this command. Maybe putting up a list of commands on the playrust website (or for our playrust wiki guy). But i can see this being an issue when the games leaves alpha/beta
(See 9 minute 6 second mark)
[video=youtube;vEeslRiDTuw]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vEeslRiDTuw&t=9m6s[/video]
[QUOTE]My only concern about making good items super rare is that nobody will then ever use them. You will have the majority of the game be noobs with hatchets, or good players using pistols.
Also like you said, you got pumped when you had that BIG fight with everyone using their m4s etc...
Do you think it will be possible to continuously have these types of fights if everyone is to scared to lose their rare gear?[/QUOTE]
There is always a fine balance between power, risk and reward. People are always fearful of an unforgiving game mechanic such as losing all your stuff and the prospect of never getting it back. But it also invokes emotions such as anger, rage and the desire for revenge. People will always use M4's- no matter how difficult they are to obtain. Right now- they are super effective! but also ridiculous easy to make- along with shotguns and mp5's.
New players should not have readily available access to these weapons. When you do get access to a powerful weapon such as an M4- it should be a moment of happiness and reward. When you lose it, it should be a moment of great loss and anger- and when 20+ guys utilize weapons like this in a large battle it should be a moment you will never forget in a game as unforgiving as rust.
I really applaud the way you thought about this, I am too one of the unlucky ones who didn't get a key but I hope I get one soon.
Everything is very good and you are right but they need to make it more survival-realism sort of way.
If people are going to play this game let's start off by having no guns, no food, no anything.
Just your bare hands that you can gather wood with and maybe make axes or hatchets by finding iron ores and smelting it with a furnace or an improvised campfire.
It is just if this game would take it deep with the survival concept it would be awesome.
I don't own the game but I've been watching streams on Twitch for a while and I really think that tools AND weapons should get damaged after being used (harvesting resources, melee, shooting bullets) and maybe even function worse the more they are damaged, forcing (in a kind way) the players to repair them
Another thing the game needs is VoIP. Apparently ith the current global chatting system it's very hard to communicate with nearby players, often resulting in the very aggressive nature of players
[QUOTE=Powerpuffters;41402555]*EDIT (don't know why i cant edit my original post)
There is always a fine balance between power, risk and reward. People are always fearful of an unforgiving game mechanic such as losing all your stuff and the prospect of never getting it back. But it also invokes emotions such as anger, rage and the desire for revenge. People will always use M4's- no matter how difficult they are to obtain. Right now- they are super effective! but also ridiculous easy to make- along with shotguns and mp5's.
New players should not have readily available access to these weapons. When you do get access to a powerful weapon such as an M4- it should be a moment of happiness and reward. When you lose it, it should be a moment of great loss and anger- and when 20+ guys utilize weapons like this in a large battle it should be a moment you will never forget in a game as unforgiving as rust.[/QUOTE]
Right, but your POV of the game is with these 10-15+ people you run around with, and this gives you a completely different game-play experience like you said.
For smaller groups, your basically saying your SOL and should not bother playing the game without joining a big group because you will not be capable of getting the more prized gear no matter how much time you put into the game. The game has to still be enjoyable for everyone else. So you can't have such extremes when it comes to items...you need to have enough intermediate guns that fill that gap and still allow small groups or lower-skilled players to enjoy the game.
So yes, if you want to make powerful gun really rare, like snipers and some assault rifles...that's fine. But you also need guns that are higher tier than a pistol but lower than the rare ones so that people can still play the game at that middle level.
For example:
(Noobies): Usually loners or new players - Hatchets/Pistols
(Semi-Organized): Small groups of 3-4 friends casual but organized - Pistols/SMGs/Grenades/Lower tiered rifles(prolly not many attachments)
(Very-Organized): Large groups/clans..the often reffered to as 'no-lifers' or 'try-hards' - Grenades/Assault Rifles/Snipers
hey i like the idea of rarity and all of that but(still minding that you said this game is early alpha) its so early and making guns rare is a good point but when the game gets to where its a actual full game i thought that we should have to where a player can find a gun. You should be able to find a gun on a dead body which still there isn't corpses yet but i bet there will be. Which corpses should disappear in about 50 minuets which would be a good amount of time. You could also find them in police stations or bars like you know when the game is a full alpha people will make villages to towns to city's maybe even small countrys. which would be cool for players to do that. like for example if you ever seen the walking dead woodbury. its a town that goes to war. that would be cool to those kinda of things. the game should also add cars and roads that people could on the side of for any thing they want. well thats what i wanted to have in rust even know i never played it. i love your idea with politics and economy. like every month a new leader would lead the little town built. im still waiting for it to go open beta and build my own little town and try and get as much people so we can just grow and grow. also waiting to go see if i can win that drawing competition not a good drawer but its worth the try. but thats my ideas on this game.
[editline]10th July 2013[/editline]
Oh and i'm might not look at this post again so if you wanna send me what you think about my ideas message me on my email i check it everyday "heartyjohn24@gmail.com".
The only problem with rare resources if that resources don't spawn dynamically in the world, every server is going to be run by 1 or 2 top guilds. Since they will lock down the rare resources leaving them with the best tech.
Maybe a reduced damage area with less resources, not sure how well that'd work though
[QUOTE](Noobies): Usually loners or new players - Hatchets/Pistols
(Semi-Organized): Small groups of 3-4 friends casual but organized - Pistols/SMGs/Grenades/Lower tiered rifles(prolly not many attachments)
(Very-Organized): Large groups/clans..the often reffered to as 'no-lifers' or 'try-hards' - Grenades/Assault Rifles/Snipers[/QUOTE]
I agree- I think that is also difficult to balance this though- noobs should spawn around the outer rims of the map, the more advanced players need something to move towards the centre
Amazing post, incredibly well thought out and executed! :)
[QUOTE=Powerpuffters;41402555]*EDIT (don't know why i cant edit my original post)
[B]Boundaries/ Griefing tactics[/B]*
Players are easily able to grief new players into their newly built huts by placing foundations on the outside of their doors. If the huts had some form of boundary (even if its a 3 meter boundary) that prevented the placement of objects outside their entrance. It would stop dicks like me doing the following and causing players to rage quit the game. The player I did this to, rage logged once he realised i'd trapped his entrance and I don't think he knew how to command himself out of the hut. Even if he did- I could have easily killed him and taken all of his things anyway.
Yes they can type "do unstick" but not everyone knows this command. Maybe putting up a list of commands on the playrust website (or for our playrust wiki guy). But i can see this being an issue when the games leaves alpha/beta
(See 9 minute 6 second mark)
[video=youtube;vEeslRiDTuw]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vEeslRiDTuw&t=9m6s[/video]
There is always a fine balance between power, risk and reward. People are always fearful of an unforgiving game mechanic such as losing all your stuff and the prospect of never getting it back. But it also invokes emotions such as anger, rage and the desire for revenge. People will always use M4's- no matter how difficult they are to obtain. Right now- they are super effective! but also ridiculous easy to make- along with shotguns and mp5's.
New players should not have readily available access to these weapons. When you do get access to a powerful weapon such as an M4- it should be a moment of happiness and reward. When you lose it, it should be a moment of great loss and anger- and when 20+ guys utilize weapons like this in a large battle it should be a moment you will never forget in a game as unforgiving as rust.[/QUOTE]
if you know your a screwing up someones gameplay why are you still doing it thats lame dude i bet you always losing whit ohter games
[QUOTE]*EDIT (don't know why i cant edit my original post)
Boundaries/ Griefing tactics*
Players are easily able to grief new players into their newly built huts by placing foundations on the outside of their doors. If the huts had some form of boundary (even if its a 3 meter boundary) that prevented the placement of objects outside their entrance. It would stop dicks like me doing the following and causing players to rage quit the game. The player I did this to, rage logged once he realised i'd trapped his entrance and I don't think he knew how to command himself out of the hut. Even if he did- I could have easily killed him and taken all of his things anyway.
Yes they can type "do unstick" but not everyone knows this command. Maybe putting up a list of commands on the playrust website (or for our playrust wiki guy). But i can see this being an issue when the games leaves alpha/beta[/QUOTE]
I think it would be a good idea that instead of not being able to build within 5 m the player who built their house their first can destroy it making it only a minor inconvenience form new or old player blocked in their house's, still encourage raiding, and keep people from stealing other people's half built house's.
[QUOTE](Noobies): Usually loners or new players - Hatchets/Pistols
(Semi-Organized): Small groups of 3-4 friends casual but organized - Pistols/SMGs/Grenades/Lower tiered rifles(prolly not many attachments)
(Very-Organized): Large groups/clans..the often reffered to as 'no-lifers' or 'try-hards' - Grenades/Assault Rifles/Snipers[/QUOTE]
maybe instead of pistols and hatchet's for noobs it could be more mid evil weapon style's like bows, spears, cap and ball revolvers, cross bows, and muskets also a double barrel
then for small groups and intermediate players it should be guns from the 1800's and early to mid 1900's like cowboy repeaters, single shot rifle's, bolt action rifles, Thompson style smg's, 1 or 2 m1 grand style of semiautomatic rifle's, 1911's, regular revolvers, and some sort mounted mg and dynamite
and finally for the no lifers mid to late 1900's and early 2000's ak's, m16's, m4's, mp5's, machine pistols like Glocks, grenades, and some sort of explosive that you put on a door that destroy's it in one shot,
I also personally think that all group's should have some sort of long range rifle or a long range scope for only Certain rifle's
[QUOTE=Powerpuffters;41402233][B]Suggestion: Towns, Resources, Politics and a player-driven economy.[/B]
So I’ve been playing Rust for the past two weeks- both as a lone player and within a large group (15+).
Rust, even though it is early alpha- is a fantastic, suspense-filled game that can be horrifying and adrenaline pumping. Rust can also be hugely rewarding or soul dampening cruel. The only rules are the ones players impose on themselves. This has interesting consequences and the results are often hilarious.
I lead the 10-15 members of my group- and we kill everyone on sight- except players who aren't on our teamspeak. I have no regard for other players within Rust- which interestingly, do not always influence the playing style of the other members within my group. However, after a large battle against another band of players (Jesters vs Facepunch) I have yet to experience a more exciting, adrenaline pumping part of the game. The real question is- what if these group battles had a real driving purpose? what if there real consequences?
“[I]Our job should be to give the players the tools they need. If you’re sick of getting killed – start a town. Build town walls. Give all the town members red clothes[/I]”
As you can see, the developers have stated their interest in giving players the tools they need to start a town, or make a safer place. Right now, we have built our town (or simply an unsightly amount of houses in my opinion) Our town is located around three different resource spawning pools. All three resource pools spawn an infinite amount of food, wood, sulphur and metal. We are in need for nothing- and we kill the lonely traveler simply for fun- which I feel should be changed.
[U][B]Before making the following points I acknowledge the game is very early alpha. I also acknowledge that the game is epic[/B][/U]
[B]Make it harder to obtain weapons[/B]/
Weapons are way too easy to obtain. After a couple of days- everyone and their mum is packing an M4. The higher tier weapons- the m4, shotgun and mp5 should require a lot more effort than simply crafting metal fragments.
The higher tier weapons should require a wide variety of different resources types (which should be found in different spawns around the map) such as Steel ores, Iron ores, Copper, Aluminium, and Bronze. Obtaining these ores should require travelling and excursions into other areas of the map. A powerful weapon- such as an M4, should be a rarity- and a reward for a high level of risk. A hatchet, pickaxe or pistol should also more difficult to obtain- requiring only the common resources to reproduce.
[B]Decentralize the resources spawns[/B]/
I know the developers have yet to expand on other areas of the map. I feel that the current spawns of wood/ food and metals are very close together (possibly too close). However I acknowledge that they are essential for the newer players spawning into rust. [U]Newer players should always have relatively easy access to basic resources such as wood and food[/U]. This should at least give the noobs a fighting chance against players like me as well as retaining more players. Players like me should have no reason to farm noobs entering rust. This tactic should make me consider the positives of attacking noobs except for anything else but trolling and griefing. Attacking new players should cost players like me a lot more resources than 6/7 gunpowders and metal fragments. My bullets should have a real cost- similar to the resource requirements I’ve suggested above.
Move the rarer, more precious resource spawns to the further areas of the map. Place the zinc ore spawns to the northwest, the iron ores to the east, and the copper ores to the west. The placement of these ores into different regions will create tension and conflict or maybe it will generate co-operation between players (whatever you’re into).
[B]Different tech[/B]/
Hatchets and pickaxes should require resources to maintain and fix. A metal door- should require a different variety or resources to build. Wooden huts/ building should require wooden resources and metal nails+ screws to maintain. What about stone walls? Introduce stone quarry/ gravel pit spawns in further locations in the map. It should require a huge amount of effort to build a stone house- but they would require a lot less materials to maintain and would provide a greater degree of protection. Players should be safer in a walled town/ house, rather than a shanty shack. I don't agree with statutory "tech trees", but players should feel that in order to gain more powerful weapons items/ more defensible structures, they need to move to different areas of the map.
[B]Player-driven economy[/B]/
There are so many resources types that could be added to diversify the game and create competition, trading and potentially- an in-game economy that is solely player-driven. I’m not talking about an economy with gold coins or money- In a post-apocalyptic world- the economy should consist of the resources I've listen above.
What’s to stop a trading deal going sour? What’s to stop different groups operating a lucrative trading agreement and achieving greatness. Nothing, except other players. Players should have good reasons for bartering- advanced construction materials should be rare, region-specific ores should be rarer- and building cars, vehicles and a safe town should be extremely difficult, but not impossible. An in-game economy, does not need attention from the devs. If the resources are rare and difficult to acquire- then trading would naturally occur OR large battles would occur for region-specific resource spawns. There should be a risk vs reward and region-specific resource spawns should be dangerous environments with aggressive NPC's
“[I]Our job should be to give the players the tools they need[/I]”
I think the developer’s plan of introducing different colors of clothing to differentiate friend from foe is a great idea. The clothes- like weapons should also require different resources- that can also be implemented into the suggestion above. Different colors of Dyes should also be region-specific as well as different herds of animals which drop different materials.
The most difficult thing at the moment in a large group is trying to tell the difference between friend and foe. Large town wouldn't work with the current mechanics. In my experience, it’s nearly impossible to function effectively and efficiently in groups larger than 10. Even within teamspeak it’s very difficult. The devs have discussed about different clothing - however I feel that achieving a functioning community in rust would require more than this. In game voice is something that is desirable- as well as some way of making a map and a compass. I’m not talking about an in-game UI system- but possibly the introduction of some sort of lobby i.e- a tattered map with rough drawings of densely-populated areas. As soon as you enter the game, you have no access to this map and this map is only updated through api every 24 hours or so.
[B]Politics[/B]/
If the developers decide to create and design resource spawns or items that require resources from different areas of the map as well as introduce tools available for groups and communities to function more efficiently- the political aspect of the game will take care of itself. There should always be room for the little guy i.e skilled loners, bandits and hunters. However the group element of this game is great and it has so much potential. I feel that groups like Psy Psyndicate, facepunchers and Jesters have all experienced the adrenaline pumping action of a large battle and could contribute so much to the devs in terms of how to improve the game for groups. Even smaller players are awed when they stumble across a large firefight between groups.
[B]Conclusion[/B]/
Unfortunately- as stated above- there is little reason for groups to fight each other for reasons other than fun/ dick measuring. When a group becomes organised it’s likely that they have 10+ M4’s in storage. Controlling multiple resource spawns becomes simple and the majority of single players living within close proximity of a large group quickly gets swept aside or beat into the ground. Groups and experienced players should not simply WANT to move into deeper areas of the map- they should NEED to in order for the groups survival against other groups. Moving into deeper territory should be rewarding and the prospect of attacking the newbies at spawn should be the very last thing on a groups mind.
This is coming from a guy who regularly leads a group of 10-15 guys and beats down the single players of the game. I completely understand that this game is in early alpha- this is simply the feedback i'm giving from playing.[/QUOTE]
I just want to mention that I know who you are now. I've been killed and killed you in-game in Rust. :D
Don`t know about having all sorts of different materials for high tier weapons. For groups, getting them is piss easy leaving solo players or even 2 man groups out to dry. I know its "survival" but it is still a game.
I think that it would be great if they added new hostile NPCs to the game. Since Garry said that this game was similar to S.T.A.L.K.E.R. in a sense I would hope that they add mutants or anomalies into this game. Like different types of mutants that drops certain tiers of blueprints or items based on their difficulty. Also adding anomalies to high radiation zones that either damage players or have some item hidden in them would be cool. If some mutants were like rare spawns that took a group of players to take down, it would require teamwork and maybe discourage KOS. Also like what Powerpuffters said we need to be able to distinguish between clan/group members easily through some sort of visual que. A uniform could solve that problem without breaking immersion.
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