[FEEDBACK] A realistic look at the recent patch from someone who plays with a group of 30+, fix sugg - Rust

I wouldn't say I play "professionally" at Rust since that's ridiculous, but I think my group and the ally group we're with are the closest thing to "hardcore serious" players there are right now. I'm gunna go through the recent patch(es) and give our feedback in hopes to make the game a good players for group players and solo players alike. This will include details on what is bad/good with the patch, and improvements for them - along with general gameplay improvements. [QUOTE]Resources spawning much less frequently[/QUOTE] This is the root of most problems this patch. I'll go over why this is: Before this patch started, our group and our ally group built our bases in resource fields. Since resources spawned roughly every 11 minutes it was reasonably easy to start crafting a base. Also, since there was more resources, we were friendly to those we didn't know who were passing through and needed to harvest. In the current patch, since resources only spawn once/twice every day cycle we pretty much now HAVE to kill anyone on sight who we don't know or we could risk losing valuable resources - not only that but our group is struggling to finish even basic builds since resources are so rare now. The point I'm making is that, no matter how big or small your group, the spawns are far too infrequent to craft a reasonable base - even when you have days of work put in - not to mention if you get griefed. Following this, the server is much less friendly since we simply cannot share the resources - so new players will die if they're seen in our area which is not the community we want Rust to be but it is how we have to play currently. We realise it's slightly more realistic to limit resources - but it's much less fun now - offputting almost. [B]TL;DR and possible problem fixes: -Resources are way too rare and it puts a struggles on groups and solo players. -The thirst for resources causes people to be very aggressive and shoot-on-sight mentality quickly spreads. -Fix: Make spawns more frequent again or make builds cost less materials - namely building materials. Constructing walls/ceilings etc is just unreasonably hard now. You need 500 wood and roughly 50 metal ore to make a 1 by 1 house with a metal door and that, in the current patch, is too much of an issue for such an unsafe build.[/B] [QUOTE]Kevlar is harder to produce Made ammo much harder to craft[/QUOTE] This would be absolutely fine if resources hadn't been made so infrequent - as listed above. [QUOTE]Research kits are now one time use[/QUOTE] We like this idea but we think research kits should in turn be made multiple uses (say 5) or have an increased droprate from zombies. [QUOTE]Added Bolt Action Rifle[/QUOTE] We have a team of 5 people who farm zombies all day - we haven't had a drop (actual weapon or blueprint) of one of these since the patch. 3 irl days of farming. [QUOTE]Added aim sway to some weapons, experimental[/QUOTE] Nice touch, but the servers are way too laggy for this to be useful currently - it's hard enough to aim when you have people lagging all over the place. Our server (US CENTRAL 4) is filled with a gang of 50+ Koreans who are unhittible if they run since they play on 300+ ping and just lag run everywhere. [QUOTE]Added a small ‘lazy aim’ cone for weapons[/QUOTE] Nice feature since, as mentioned above, server is filled with people playing on terrible connections so aiming is hard. [QUOTE]Spike wall returns more damage Spike wall has more melee armor[/QUOTE] Thank you for this, spike walls are finally viable! [QUOTE]General game improvements/suggestions[/QUOTE] -Friend list or trust feature to let friends open your metal doors. (I don't think I need to go into this) -Fix the bug where you can chop down wooden stairs through walls. -Region lock or max ping allowance. Currently on US CENTRAL 4 there are 50+ Koreans who cannot be killed since they play on high ping and lag walk everywhere - usually FPS games have these features so people cannot do this kinda thing. -Spam filter or mute feature. Kids play this game who spam copy pasted stuff when they get mad/upset. Also, again, Koreans like to spam stuff. -Ability to craft "halfwalls" which are walls that come to your waist and can be crouched behind - perfect for rooftop lookouts or sniper towers. Surprised we've gone this long without them.

You say "reasonable" base. Define reasonable? Before the patch people were building massive towers/forts in almost no time. Is that what you mean by reasonable? I guess some people got used to farming resources so quickly and and as such got accustomed to being able to build/craft whatever they liked. This has changed and I think it is great. People shouldn't be building massive towers/forts in no time. As for the lack of resources making players more hostile, don't know. In Rust people KoS and just do whatever they want.

Man hates Koreans.

Hi Keyori, big fan if you are the LoL Youtuber. I agree with the majority of what you've said here, and would advocate the increase of resource drops over the reduction of building costs because I feel they are reasonably balanced currently, and you really get rewarded for your hard work. I believe in the future the will add more resource spawning locations which will probably ease the congestion in the valleys that is noticeable now. EDIT: Also the goddamn Bolt Rifle spawn rate is so horrific I just don't even

[QUOTE=creztor;43267962]You say "reasonable" base. Define reasonable? Before the patch people were building massive towers/forts in almost no time. Is that what you mean by reasonable?[/QUOTE] When you take into consideration the size of my group and our ally group both sharing one resource field (congestion is terrible, I can only imagine what it's like to the poor ungrouped people having to spend almost 7 day cycles to get a few ore due to people literally flocking spawns. It took me almost 14 hours worth of play time to get a 3x3x2 (three by three and 2 floors is the only real safe basic build due to current glitches), so that's 24 walls, 9 foundations, 24 pillars, multiple doorways and metal doors for safety, 1 staircase and 9 ceilings. That's well over 500 wooden planks - 5000 wood. That's for one safe house. Some of you may argue that is a large build but the people on my server play properly and are well equipped to grief and raid stuff anything smaller. Staircases can be glitch broken unless covered by walls covering EVERY side and corner which is why you have to build minimum 3x3 with the staircase in the center. - AND all this doesn't even begin on the exterior precautions you have to take like foundations with pillars in the middle, spike walls etc. [B] This, of course, would all be different if you had the option to, as mentioned in the post, let friends open metal doors - then we could design a safer house much larger and much safer which would also be resource efficient. Instead, we have to build single safe houses to be efficient in the current patch.[/B] Now, that for around 30 players, with the other group taken into consideration, not to mention the raids and other things that happen between building is a long time just to make a base. We have stolen plenty of resources from other people by raiding their houses which is why we know what is truly safe, so the above build is the MINIMUM to be safe in the current patch. All will change once you are able to let friends open doors. Once that happens the current house building meta will shift.

[QUOTE]but I think my group and the ally group we're with are the closest thing to "hardcore serious" players there are right now.[/QUOTE] sry to disrespect what you said there.. but.. you are just the opposite of hardcore serious players.. you are playing survival game and play in group of 30 ppl? that is one whole bus of ppl.. and that would be just fine if you gather that big group just ingame playing the game.. that would be even realistic aspect, and ppl would form big groups in apocalypse to be more secure and extended chances.. but i'm sure that at least 70% of your team are players who are already together and start playing together.. hardcore serious players would be players who are in max maximum 5 players group, and not playing in that big of advantage.. like situation from yesterday - more than 10 guys vs 2 players.. how that can be hardcore? it's just "pussy" play.. sry for expression, but i'm not good at english so i don't have much of vocabulary.. you say you have 5 ppl looting zombies.. well.. that's already enough said.. and you and your full bus of friends build bases on resources field.. and complaining of lack of resources.. well.. that just don't add up.. you get it all wrong :)

[QUOTE=Kudaaaa;43268295]sry to disrespect what you said there.. but.. you are just the opposite of hardcore serious players.. you are playing survival game and play in group of 30 ppl? that is one whole bus of ppl.. and that would be just fine if you gather that big group just ingame playing the game.. that would be even realistic aspect, and ppl would form big groups in apocalypse to be more secure and extended chances.. but i'm sure that at least 70% of your team are players who are already together and start playing together.. hardcore serious players would be players who are in max maximum 5 players group, and not playing in that big of advantage.. like situation from yesterday - more than 10 guys vs 2 players.. how that can be hardcore? it's just "pussy" play.. sry for expression, but i'm not good at english so i don't have much of vocabulary.. you say you have 5 ppl looting zombies.. well.. that's already enough said.. and you and your full bus of friends build bases on resources field.. and complaining of lack of resources.. well.. that just don't add up.. you get it all wrong :)[/QUOTE] Your entire "argument" is flawed. We have safety in vast numbers and we are all IRL friends. We've never been raided successfully and we've never lost on a raid. We own the server. Not sure why you think I would know about your 10v2 situation but congrats I guess, but that wouldn't happen with us. You'd be dead before you got into the field and that's honest. Not trying to sound tough but no one has gotten to our base alive. You must be upset or something, and looking at this post in a negative way but we are a great asset to the alpha team to help them improve the game for solo players and groups alike. And yes, we are starved for resources, why would I be offering solutions to an issue we don't have? We'd just keep quiet, instead we're trying to help the devs.

Rust is a real life simulation of survival in a post apocalypse situation. Last I checked, there are not random piles of wood forming in post apocalypse situations... We should be lucky we even get to have these. And 30 people, plus a nearby ally, of course it's going to be difficult. We're talking 30+ people in one area, sharing minimal materials. It's a survival game, not a luxurious location game. Also they're making the game more difficult so it's more fun for a longer period of time. Just because you're too impatient to enjoy that doesn't mean you have to ruin it for others. Go exploring & find more areas to gather resources. And fighting is what makes this game. The shooting, gang wars over resources, that's what makes this game, this game. It's an important key feature that you're trying to assuage

I agree with the Ammo part because I just feel like it's stupid you need to have 500 gunpowder for 100 556 Ammo.

[QUOTE=Trickey;43268465]I agree with the Ammo part because I just feel like it's stupid you need to have 500 gunpowder for 100 556 Ammo.[/QUOTE] I do agree with that though, ammo should be easier to get. That's the game's everything. Without it we wouldn't be able to do crap

The resource scarcity is a bit too much right now. I mean, on low pop servers, before the change, it was kind of ridiculous. I could gather a veritable warehouse of resources without much time investment, and craft whatever I wanted, and still have plenty left over. But now, on the official high pop servers, I can literally search for what seems like ages and be lucky to come across a single rock node, which basically stonewalls any possibility of progression, and thus gameplay.

I do agree with the fact that they need more rock nodes. they're almost impossible to find now

[QUOTE=MRWOFFLE;43268433]Rust is a real life simulation of survival in a post apocalypse situation. Last I checked, there are not random piles of wood forming in post apocalypse situations... We should be lucky we even get to have these. And 30 people, plus a nearby ally, of course it's going to be difficult. We're talking 30+ people in one area, sharing minimal materials. It's a survival game, not a luxurious location game. Also they're making the game more difficult so it's more fun for a longer period of time. Just because you're too impatient to enjoy that doesn't mean you have to ruin it for others. Go exploring & find more areas to gather resources. And fighting is what makes this game. The shooting, gang wars over resources, that's what makes this game, this game. It's an important key feature that you're trying to assuage[/QUOTE] This is the problem I'm addressing - we own the server, we've raided everyone in sight because our resources were too thin. Numbers own and because we managed to craft reasonable things fast we owned much much much faster than before. Therefore, no new players stand a chance and it's horrible for them and boring for us. The patch before this was the best one - plenty of raids on us and plenty of raids to be had since people could actually build. New players coming into this patch are quitting fast. And don't say I'm too impatient to enjoy it because I've got over 200 hours logged on the game, I am VERY patient and love the game, but I am having to voice the opinions of my group because[B] things have changed for the worse in this patch - but patches prior have been great improvement.[/B]

[QUOTE=Keyori;43268569]we own the server[/QUOTE] is this a challenge?

[QUOTE=MRWOFFLE;43268523]I do agree with the fact that they need more rock nodes. they're almost impossible to find now[/QUOTE] Actually, ores are much much easier to come by this patch. Wood is what is scarce - and as such - builds are harder. I have well over 2000 metal fragments just sitting still but barely over 50 wood at any given time.

[QUOTE=Keyori;43268604]Actually, ores are much much easier to come by this patch. Wood is what is scarce - and as such - builds are harder. I have well over 2000 metal fragments just sitting still but barely over 50 wood at any given time.[/QUOTE] I've never been one for luck, lol

[QUOTE=InsaneParrot;43268602]is this a challenge?[/QUOTE] Not really, just going off fact. Sounds arrogant but it's just the truth - only aiming to help the devs. People can take this how they want. It's unlikely we'll be out of power before the next server wipe. I'm not boasting, just pointing out how boring it currently is and how it wasn't like this before. We still had trouble defending with 30 people last patch cos people could arm faster and raids were frequent - it was MUCH more fun. Even as a solo player there was more fun to be had.

[QUOTE=Keyori;43268622]Not really, just going off fact. Sounds arrogant but it's just the truth - only aiming to help the devs. People can take this how they want. It's unlikely we'll be out of power before the next server wipe. I'm not boasting, just pointing out how boring it currently is.[/QUOTE] A 30 man group isn't as strong as you think.

Well, why in the world would you want to work with 30 other guys. I mean, what's the point then? The work would be so divided, resources so controlled. And I don't think I'll ever be able to believe that you guys are well governed and controlled

[QUOTE=MRWOFFLE;43268637]Well, why in the world would you want to work with 30 other guys. I mean, what's the point then? The work would be so divided, resources so controlled. And I don't think I'll ever be able to believe that you guys are well governed and controlled[/QUOTE] I'm a popular YouTuber with a network of trustworthy friends who are other YouTubers and friends in general - we all play together and use Raidcall. It's very organized. Believe what you want - doesn't change facts. YouTube "keyori" and you'll see :)

I come in here thinking I'd disagree with most of these points, but this guy hit it bang on for my tastes.

But you're talking about the scarcity of resources, but this is just a point to show, you have 30 people. 30 people use a lot more resources than 5. Perhaps you've just bit off more than you can chew, this is how many empires have failed, not being able to supply themselves, they fall apart. Maybe this is what the makers of Rust intended. Think about it... Truly this isn't a scarcity, although it may be, but truly it is just an inadequate number of supplies needed for you to run, maybe not others.

[QUOTE=InsaneParrot;43268632]A 30 man group isn't as strong as you think.[/QUOTE] Please read the posts. I'm saying a 30 man group isn't strong but in the current patch it is. That's the problem. Don't you see the changes I'm suggesting are technically bad for my group? We own the server because of these changes - and that is bad. No one group should have all this power. Before we were raided frequently and they succeeded - but it was fun! Now it's dull. This wasn't about boasting, it was about making the game more fun for ALL people.

[QUOTE=Keyori;43268649]I'm a popular YouTuber with a network of trustworthy friends who are other YouTubers and friends in general - we all play together and use Raidcall. It's very organized. Believe what you want - doesn't change facts. YouTube "keyori" and you'll see :)[/QUOTE] Well, if you are who you say you are, it'd be nice to run into you in-game.

Absoutly agree. I play by myself and this game has become unplayable for me as of the last patch. I can build a small house, but it won't be safe, so really there's no point to starting up a build because I'll lose my progress. Resource spawning needs to go back to what it was for high pop servers at least

[QUOTE=MRWOFFLE;43268676]But you're talking about the scarcity of resources, but this is just a point to show, you have 30 people. 30 people use a lot more resources than 5. Perhaps you've just bit off more than you can chew, this is how many empires have failed, not being able to supply themselves, they fall apart. Maybe this is what the makers of Rust intended. Think about it... Truly this isn't a scarcity, although it may be, but truly it is just an inadequate number of supplies needed for you to run, maybe not others.[/QUOTE] Again, stop posting and read my points. I am complaining about the lack of resources BECAUSE we're so ahead. It's boring. No one can fight back. Last patch was perfect and fun. We are in no danger of not being able to resource ourselves, we're fully built now and we will not be overtaken before a server wipe - that is fact. Now we just raid EVERYWHERE that's up and coming and halt them. I am not boasting, I am addressing issues. Please - understand that.

Perhaps what Rust should do, is do a ratio between amount of people on and spawn times. 500 people on, 10 minute respond time, 50 people on, 100 minute respond time, 5 people on, 1000 minute respond time That way, it's a balance, so getting on when no one else is wont give you such a huge advantage, and servers with a small population wont be any easier than one with a large population when it comes to gathering resources. edit: Sorry, I was misunderstanding your orignal post, I thought you were complaining because your people were struggling finding resources, a little tired, long week...

[QUOTE=MRWOFFLE;43268714]Perhaps what Rust should do, is do a ratio between amount of people on and spawn times. 500 people on, 10 minute respond time, 50 people on, 100 minute respond time, 5 people on, 1000 minute respond time That way, it's a balance, so getting on when no one else is wont give you such a huge advantage, and servers with a small population wont be any easier than one with a large population when it comes to gathering resources. edit: Sorry, I was misunderstanding your orignal post, I thought you were complaining because your people were struggling finding resources, a little tired, long week...[/QUOTE] Max server capacity is 200, but yes that sounds good. 20 min spawn at 170+, 40 mins at 100 - 170, an hour with 100 or less.

[QUOTE]We have safety in vast numbers and we are all IRL friends. We've never been raided successfully and we've never lost on a raid. We own the server.[/QUOTE] well.. yeah.., you just confirmed my post.. you are irl friends.. survival games are not ment to be played that way.. don't know if i can explain what i think by that.. in terms of "reality" or playing the game as it is designed you played it with unreal advantage.. if there are just your group on server that would be fine.. like that lost series scenario (even though there weren't rl friends, but random ppl).. you come to server as a group, and from the start you have enormous advantage.. even if half your group are players with one hand, you can easily run thru whole map and kill everything alive basically just with rock.. you said you were never raided.. well.. ofc not.. lol.. that's almost the point.. if group of more than like 10 ppl get raided it would be known as the worst group ever.. don't you agree? you own the server you said.. well.. again.. if not that would be little embarrassing wouldn't it? what chance does that server have? exactly zero in your area.. only thing that could happened bad for you is that 5 guys looting zombies.. i'm sure when you go on some "mission" you are just like that funny 10 kiddos group where they go altogether like little train in one hangar which have 2 crates of loot.. and 10 ppl enter.. i guess as support, or they must always follow the leader or i don't know, some stupid thing like that.. if you play with 30 ppl, and want to be competitive and compare with another group with same equal conditions, so you can say my group is best or blabla.. then.. i don't know, you should be playing arma, or maybe bf 32 vs 32.. but this is rust.. survival game.. and you play it like some resident building simulator for place for 30 ppl.. and your biggest complain is lack of resources.. well lol.. ofc! like mrwolfe said.. it's survival game, not house building game.. i know you will not get my point, i'm bad at explanations, even more as i lack english vocabulary, and i understand my opinion sounds like attacking without reason, but try to understand that this is not supposed to be whole football team with reserves go and make houses for each and every one.. [QUOTE]And yes, we are starved for resources, why would I be offering solutions to an issue we don't have? We'd just keep quiet, instead we're trying to help the devs. [/QUOTE] it's supposed to be hard.. it's supposed to be hard for one player or two to build a somewhat safe house, it should be so much harder for that big group.. this isn't game which you play one day and make a fortress.. this is game which you are playing actively and long.. and keep progressing every day.. as is human day, not ingame day.. you said before patch resources spawned every 11 minutes.. so you even know that.. because you and your football team were just sitting in your house in the middle of resource field and waiting for new wave of wood to come.. it's just silly gameplay.. if you have been playing like most others, you would have no idea how long it needs for resources to spawn, because you will not check just one place, but you will go out and search, and look, and go in few fields.. with constant danger you will get that headshot from behind as you hitting that wood pile and looking front left and right.. and you would get to so many more situations, fun, dangerous, and all kind.. your input for game and gameplay means nothing.. as you are one unique group of players and your experience has do nothing with game itself.. sitting in a field with 30 players waiting for new resources spawns, and killing lonely players who come for some wood.. yep.. you own the server..

Technically, and practically, the game is fairly 'undeclared' in terms of what it is or isn't at this stage. Yes, there is the survival element to it, but I'm not sure it's really, strictly a survival game. (It may very well end up being strictly a survival game, but in its current state it's kind of a bunch of quasi hyphens in terms of its genre and theme). It seems like it's trying to do a few things--some of which do not really fit with one another, or altogether are contrary to each others--at the same time. In any case, the point still stands that on high population servers, resource scarcity is stonewalling progression, and thus gameplay. Being a video game, the primary function is entertainment, not some subjective and arbitrarily applied definition of 'realism'. Realism is a consideration to be made along side other considerations, where it can fit in, and be implemented well without undermining other aspects.