Let's talk about the grass - Rust

Hi folks, I know it used to be a huge thing that people could talk about for hours, wether it decreased performance or not on Legacy but I want to talk about it in the new version. It was perfectly fine at the beginning, working so good there was no way to remove it. But now it has been upgraded (devblog33: [url]http://playrust.com/devblog-33/[/url]) and it feels to me like it has a huge performance impact. (I can't recall exactly when this started but I think it was around the time of this devblog) Sometimes i'm in a huge field of grass, withtout trees or building or anything and my fps is down to 25-30. When i'm in the desert or in the snow it goes up to 70 stable. Is it just me or you guys have the same feeling? I don't want it to go, I want it to be back to awesome AND performance friendly x). MrGoodKill

The grass is not tall enough i want it as high as my head. But as Garry has said, its not the grass that causes lag..For me its the buildings and Lanterns.

I like how people still think Grass has any impact on performance, even after they showed you the benchmark with it enabled and disabled. Grass has no impact.

This is NOT legacy any more. Stop with the grass stuff.

What the fuck people, didn't you read? I had no problem with grass in Legacy: it was shit i disabled it all the time and it was ok. Then came exp with beautiful totally performance friendly grass and it was awesome but now it's not anymore. I could make some videos showing you how perf significantly drops from desert to meadow...

From what i understand the grass in rust when first implemented on this version only uses 3~FPS for it all, Garry was adamant that the grass should not be a system killer like it was for some people in legacy, although the aesthetics of the grass has changed the underlying system has not, Edit: just read your post, Not sure if it is grass, each biome has its own shaders/effects it could be linked to that, it's most likely not the grass render problems.

@Kulan: Yes, it was really efficient when implemented. I noticed a drop in performances quite recently. When it was implemented really, I remembered not being able to play at all because of perf issues. (Everything was fine in desert and snow biome) After the next update it got better though. I'm gonna shoot a video right knwo to show you what i'm talking about. brb

[QUOTE=MrGoodKill;46756601]@Kulan: Yes, it was really efficient when implemented. I noticed a drop in performances quite recently. When it was implemented really, I remembered not being able to play at all because of perf issues. (Everything was fine in desert and snow biome) After the next update it got better though. I'm gonna shoot a video right knwo to show you what i'm talking about. brb[/QUOTE] they have literally shown side by side comparisons of the memory consumption with grass on and off when they first implemented it. as for fps issues, there are heaps of other reasons for it. at one stage it was memory leakage related to speedtree. other times it had to do with the build system, other times to do with sunshafts. don't presume its the grass all of a sudden; nothing has been changed there for a while. but by all means, post a video and we'll all have a look and put up our opinions as to whats happening;)

There it is: [url]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FtxZnjjaLZ0&feature=youtu.be[/url] Ok I know this video isn't perfectly relevant but: looking at the desert I have like 70-80 fps. Looking at the grass I have 30-40. (Ok there are a few bushes and like 3 rocks but I'm pretty sure this aint no big deal. Or else bushes are really fucked) Also, you can notice that when looking at the ground in desert I have 90-100 fps whereas I have only 50-60 looking at grass. I'm totally ok if you guys tell me it's not about the grass but about the bushes. I'm just saying there is something fucked up in "normal" biome that ruins my fps sometimes. I feel like it's the grass but it might not be and I just wanted to know wether some other people felt the same way. @Misterknifey: It pisses me off so much that you guys are assuming i'm just blaming it on the grass. I really felt a difference one day. The memory comparison you're talking about was ages ago. I remember it and was really happy about it. I'm telling you it changed around devblog 33. I was pretty sure it was due to something else, that's why I waited so long. Plus Gary said in the last devblog that performance was getting realy better these days. Well not really for me in grass biome :/.

MrGoodKill You do get serious drops, I have noticed that where biomes meet i get a bit of a FPS drop, but nothing like that. and i do get up to 10fps difference depending on the biome, my worse one is forest biome but i guess that because of the animals that spawn in forest biomes. I have just been wondering my map, some stats first. 3 core 3.2 athlon 8 gig geforce CTX 650 Ti 2g game settings fantastic @ 1080x720 Desert 55~fps [IMG]http://i58.tinypic.com/125rluh.jpg[/IMG] Grassland 51~ fps [IMG]http://i57.tinypic.com/30lf0c2.jpg[/IMG] Snow 58~fps [IMG]http://i58.tinypic.com/29e0pl3.jpg[/IMG] forest 31~fps (i was being attacked by a bear note the bleed indicator starting to appear lol) [IMG]http://i59.tinypic.com/rbeb68.jpg[/IMG] Not sure why you are getting that big a drop, :(

[QUOTE=MrGoodKill;46756750]@Misterknifey: It pisses me off so much that you guys are assuming i'm just blaming it on the grass. I really felt a difference one day. The memory comparison you're talking about was ages ago. I remember it and was really happy about it. I'm telling you it changed around devblog 33. I was pretty sure it was due to something else, that's why I waited so long. Plus Gary said in the last devblog that performance was getting realy better these days. Well not really for me in grass biome :/.[/QUOTE] [QUOTE=MrGoodKill;46756248]Then came exp with beautiful totally performance friendly grass and it was awesome but now it's not anymore.[/QUOTE] i'm not trying to insult you, i'm just working off what you said. have i misinterpreted you? i'm not doubting the fps drop, i can see it in your video. i'm understanding from the above post that you think it is the grass, and i'm intending to reassure you that it is very unlikely. that FP have shown the difference between grass on and off (a while back yes, but no changes have been made directly to the grass other than some work to improve variance in height with the grass). please don't take it the wrong way:) i get fps drops looking in certain directions, but it doesn't appear to correlate with the grasslands themselves. as kulan, its mostly the forrest areas (probably the animals/spawns), and i get the most fps by staring straight up at the sky where i'm basically rendering nothing. personally i have found that PVT improves my fps stability immensely, so maybe try that, but i'm honestly not sure what IS causing your fps drop. is there a massive build nearby, or a forrest just over the hill? is it constant between servers? is it constant between day/night cycles?

@kulan: Ye it sucks, I don't know why either. Note that I don't have ambiant occlusion or shadows on! I lose fps in forests too but it makes sense: lots of objects, lots of shadows to cast, as you said npc to handle etc... My setting btw: core i7 3610QM up to 3.3Ghz, 8GB ram, Nvidia GTX 660M (gaming laptop) (Also something that sucks: from fantastic to fastest i get like 15-20 fps, not much more) @mrknifey: no worries man, I'm just trying not to get stuck in the "grass whiner" zone x). I'm not as sure as you are about the grass: "Andre changed the grass". Now that's not specific at all. You might have noticed that it now moves with the wind (Converted to somekind of speedtree?) It's weird that I'm the only one experiencing this shit. Also it's not surprising that depending on where you look you get less fps. As you stated, you get the best fps looking at the sky because you render nothing and of course in forests it drops significantly. Sometimes I forget to turn pvt back on as it seems to be off by default (or maybe it's just becaue I switch between quality lvls) but yes it improves my performance. It really only adds an offset to my fps, the drops are still there. There is a big building nearby actually, but the side of the desert x). And I don't know wether it's consistent between servers and/or day/night cycles. I'm assuming so yes but i'll check. Thanks for your answers anyway. PS:Could you try to look at the ground in desert and on the grass and tell me if you see any fps difference?

sure gimme a tic:) *edit* ok, getting average of 12fps staring at sand, 11fps staring at grass without PVT. PVT on getting 33fps on sand, 22fps on grass, and dropping to about 16fps when looking at a moderate sized build or forrest area. (yeah its a laptop, but its playable lol)

[QUOTE=MrGoodKill;46753300]Hi folks, I know it used to be a huge thing that people could talk about for hours, wether it decreased performance or not on Legacy but I want to talk about it in the new version. It was perfectly fine at the beginning, working so good there was no way to remove it. But now it has been upgraded (devblog33: [url]http://playrust.com/devblog-33/[/url]) and it feels to me like it has a huge performance impact. (I can't recall exactly when this started but I think it was around the time of this devblog) Sometimes i'm in a huge field of grass, withtout trees or building or anything and my fps is down to 25-30. When i'm in the desert or in the snow it goes up to 70 stable. Is it just me or you guys have the same feeling? I don't want it to go, I want it to be back to awesome AND performance friendly x). MrGoodKill[/QUOTE] Since you are so behind reading devblogs you should read the one posted the week after the one you linked [url]http://playrust.com/devblog-34/[/url] [QUOTE]Performance is a joke right now, there’s no denying that. The game uses too much memory and it runs like shit most of the time. [B]It’s not caused by grass[/B]. Right now we’re exploring 3 avenues. 1. Terrain rendering. The terrain shaders were meant to be faster and better looking. Right now they’re definitely better looking but they’re much slower than the default option. Diogo is adding some shader LODs to ease this off a but – but it’s looking likely that we’ll have to end up finding a compromise here to get the game back up to speed. 2. Trees. We’re suffering a lot with the performance of trees. We think we’ll get a big performance benefit if we include the trees internally as part of Unity’s terrain system because it does a bunch of batching and automatic LOD handling. Andre is experimenting with that now. If it goes ahead we’re somewhat limited by it – because right now in Unity if you want to update one of these trees you have to update them all.. which means if you knock a tree down we have to update the entire system of 30,000 trees. This is taking about 300ms in our tests – which is a noticeable hitch – but might be worth it. 3. Physics. Tied somewhat to the tree issue. Some of the trees right now have about 10 colliders. Some of the rocks have 500 polygon collision meshes. There’s 30,000 trees – 10,000 rocks. We have no idea how this is affecting performance on the client or the server. Whether this is responsible for the massive memory usage, whether it’s generating a lot of CPU usage. This is something we’re looking into. So sorry, yes, we know. We’re doing stuff, we’ll talk about it more from now on.[/QUOTE]

@utilitron: I know. But I still have those drops that nothing else can explain. Also, I didn't state it was the grass, I asked if anyone felt the same. @mrknifey: I didn't understand your last post, english isn't my native language sorry x). Drops still there at night and on other servers btw. EDIT: Oh it was give me a "sec" xD. Ok so you do have a moderate drop too. Hmm, we'd need more data to know for sure.

:) no probs. pvt on, looking at desert sand = 33fps pvt on, looking at grass = 23fps pvt on, looking at medium sized house = 16fps pvt off, looking at desert sand = 12fps pvt off, looking at grass = 11fps

[B]PVT off[/B] grass 62 FPS [IMG]http://i61.tinypic.com/244v6kz.jpg[/IMG] sand 63 fps [IMG]http://i61.tinypic.com/jilsnc.jpg[/IMG] [B]PVT on[/B] grass 59 fps [IMG]http://i57.tinypic.com/f2pyja.jpg[/IMG] sand 55 fps [IMG]http://i62.tinypic.com/bgydxv.jpg[/IMG] Pretty sure the icon for PVT is the wrong way round.

A theory as to why the frame rate drops is due to a simple cause, buildings, tower buildings tend to lag when you look in their direction, even if you cant see them and their far away, it will still cause lag to happen when ever you look in their direction. That's somethings that causes lag for me. I remember someone saying that the easiest way to find where people live is by the lag that happens when ever you look in a particular direction. I guess there is still some optimization needed for the new building textures because this happened to the last ones.

@Kulan: Aaaaand you don't get any lag from grass. Now I'm really confused x). @Grym Thor: What you're talking about is definitely true. But it might not be the only reason. I might completely reinstall the game, I remember this helped once. I had weird stuff happening that nobody else had.

[QUOTE=MrGoodKill;46758604]@Kulan: Aaaaand you don't get any lag from grass. Now I'm really confused x). @Grym Thor: What you're talking about is definitely true. But it might not be the only reason. I might completely reinstall the game, I remember this helped once. I had weird stuff happening that nobody else had.[/QUOTE] yeah it might not be the only reason but the only way i could improve the fps when going through my River Front Town was by looking at the ground, this increased my fps.

[QUOTE=MrGoodKill;46753300]Hi folks, I know it used to be a huge thing that people could talk about for hours, wether it decreased performance or not on Legacy but I want to talk about it in the new version. It was perfectly fine at the beginning, working so good there was no way to remove it. But now it has been upgraded (devblog33: [url]http://playrust.com/devblog-33/[/url]) and it feels to me like it has a huge performance impact. (I can't recall exactly when this started but I think it was around the time of this devblog) Sometimes i'm in a huge field of grass, withtout trees or building or anything and my fps is down to 25-30. When i'm in the desert or in the snow it goes up to 70 stable. Is it just me or you guys have the same feeling? I don't want it to go, I want it to be back to awesome AND performance friendly x). MrGoodKill[/QUOTE] The grass is rendered and duplicated from one instance and only one drawcall. It absolutely is not harming your performance.

The game is unplayable for me, 20-35 fps spikes get rly annoying. This game needs some serious optimization.

[QUOTE=Thc420Vato;46759268]The game is unplayable for me, 20-35 fps spikes get rly annoying. This game needs some serious optimization.[/QUOTE] Once it leaves the conceptual state I'm sure that will become progressively more of a priority.

Same problem as MrGoodKill here ! I guess that's not a one person situation.