Is C4 too easy to obtain? Does your server do anything about it? - Rust

I really love this game. I know the dev team has their hands full with security issues and in time will begin balancing the game mechanics, but in the meantime I am looking for a server that has a good solution to excess C4. It seems to me that the most glaring game balance issue at the moment is being able to craft C4. It allows for the feedback loop of: craft C4 > raid > get resources > repeat immediately. This creates a snowball effect at the top of the power curve, which is the opposite of most games where gains at the top of the power curve are incremental. Now don’t get me wrong, I love how games like DayZ and Rust challenge the norms of game design and put emergent gameplay in the forefront of the experience. But in its current form I don’t like how most med-high pop Rust servers evolve into a few super-powerful groups that storm through every base on the map every night because they can replenish their C4 so easily. In short - my opinion is that raids should be more infrequent and costly. I think it’s an interesting discussion, and I’m sure some people disagree. One current solution I’ve seen discussed is to remove all crafting of C4. Your “endgame" raid loop then looks like: gather C4 > raid > get resources > use resources to sustain zombie killing/exploration/looting > raid. If this were a permanent game change, I could see increasing the drop rates of C4, or create an area of mobs that have a higher drop rate to create higher risk/reward zones when looking specifically for C4. Anyway, I’ve convinced some friends to play, and I am looking for a server for us to play on. Any recommendations? How does your sever deal with excess C4? Thanks!

There are modded servers with non-standard loot lists to help control the dissemination of "OP" things such as military-grade guns and things like C4 and explosives etc etc.

Thanks for the reply. Do you have any experience on these servers? Do they do it well? What are the specifics? No worries if you don't have the details, just curious to hear how people have actually gone about restricting C4 and if it works well for the server environment.

[QUOTE=superhans18;43454984]I really love this game. I know the dev team has their hands full with security issues and in time will begin balancing the game mechanics, but in the meantime I am looking for a server that has a good solution to excess C4. It seems to me that the most glaring game balance issue at the moment is being able to craft C4. It allows for the feedback loop of: craft C4 > raid > get resources > repeat immediately. This creates a snowball effect at the top of the power curve, which is the opposite of most games where gains at the top of the power curve are incremental. Now don’t get me wrong, I love how games like DayZ and Rust challenge the norms of game design and put emergent gameplay in the forefront of the experience. But in its current form I don’t like how most med-high pop Rust servers evolve into a few super-powerful groups that storm through every base on the map every night because they can replenish their C4 so easily. In short - my opinion is that raids should be more infrequent and costly. I think it’s an interesting discussion, and I’m sure some people disagree. One current solution I’ve seen discussed is to remove all crafting of C4. Your “endgame" raid loop then looks like: gather C4 > raid > get resources > use resources to sustain zombie killing/exploration/looting > raid. If this were a permanent game change, I could see increasing the drop rates of C4, or create an area of mobs that have a higher drop rate to create higher risk/reward zones when looking specifically for C4. Anyway, I’ve convinced some friends to play, and I am looking for a server for us to play on. Any recommendations? How does your sever deal with excess C4? Thanks![/QUOTE] if a server has no airdrops then no one can craft explosives so there are WAY less c4

Not a big fan of this as well. My server is down currently as we're still setting it up but what I wanted on mine is to have C4 rare (non-craftable / drop chance in airdrops) but not so rare where ppl who are looking to raid can't raid, just have to be smarter (timing / place to hit) about it. Think there are some other servers that do the same thing. Check out the server forums. [url]http://facepunch.com/forums/417[/url]

[QUOTE=superhans18;43455058]Thanks for the reply. Do you have any experience on these servers? Do they do it well? What are the specifics? No worries if you don't have the details, just curious to hear how people have actually gone about restricting C4 and if it works well for the server environment.[/QUOTE] I don't know much about the specifics, and any modded server could have their own settings so each one may be totally different. Look through the server subforum, you'll probably find some threads that will pique your interest and you can ask about specifics there. Personally, I disagree with turning off airdrops altogether, they're such a great way to instill some rivalry between even powerful players.

On most servers every base was abandoned because groups would build up stacks of c4. Noone else would have a chance. I feel this server fixed that and allows for a much more stable gameplay environment. Check it out. It fixes this issue and also keeps airdrops-- --its main feature is non-craftable c4 but with higher drop rates c4 is essential to the game, but making it non-craftable forces more planning and promotes more groups with more stuff. [url]https://www.facepunch.com/showthread.php?t=1342844[/url]

I've removed explosive charges from my server. And I won't introduce it until metal walls are more difficult to destroy than wood ones.

[QUOTE=Gott;43455164]I've removed explosive charges from my server. And I won't introduce it until metal walls are more difficult to destroy than wood ones.[/QUOTE] How did you do that?

[QUOTE=Gott;43455164]I've removed explosive charges from my server. And I won't introduce it until metal walls are more difficult to destroy than wood ones.[/QUOTE] Wahhhhhhhh my pixels were destroyed....... snivels ...

[QUOTE=Gott;43455164]I've removed explosive charges from my server. And I won't introduce it until metal walls are more difficult to destroy than wood ones.[/QUOTE] Metal walls are more difficult to destroy if you place them the right way. There are TWO sides to a metal wall, one has some darker metal framework sorta thing on it, you want that side out. Do some testing, it's much easier to bust thru one side of the wall than it is the other.

Currently the only way to avoid copious amounts of C4 in your server is to remove it altogether (not findable or craftable). Once a cheater gets 1, they have hundreds; and when someone else manages to kill them, they get dozens, and so on - so even if there's only 1 cheater in your server, there can be many players with way more C4 than the game/server is geared for. Until the current dupe method(s) are patched, there's no way to work around it aside from removing C4 altogether. Once dupes are removed from the equation, however (exploits patched and server wiped), I reckon I'd rather set crafting times to be very long (10-30 mins per charge) or make it uncraftable and rare enough drop from npc/crates to make raiding a very calculated venture. I definitely want raiders to have to carefully pick their targets, recon and case the joint, identify any weak points in construction/security and maybe even have to lie in wait for the owner to open the front door (saving that extra few C4 for reaching the loot).. Having to put a bit more thought and risk into raiding instead of just plowing through every door or wall in sight until you find 'treasure', is IMO a positive development. Edit: To be clear, I'd make it take that 10-30mins even if the rest of my server's items are instacraft.

my server doesnt have that problem :)

My server has rare military Mod and Oxide. its one of the most looked at servers under Rust Server section Basically the way I have it is this. Uncraftable Items: C4, M4, MP5, Shotgun(Spas12), P250, 9mm Pistol C4 M4s and MP5s only drop off of airdrops and shotguns/p250/9mm Pistols are able to drop off zombies but are a 1/500 chance. We also have Door sharing, Private Messaging, see who is online, Low Droprates and such. Plus an Admin Tool that allow sme to make moderators with only kick and ban. Thomas the creator of Oxide has made acouple posts on the thread and approves of it in a big way :D

[QUOTE=toastyroasty;43455713]My server has rare military Mod and Oxide. its one of the most looked at servers under Rust Server section Basically the way I have it is this. Uncraftable Items: C4, M4, MP5, Shotgun(Spas12), P250, 9mm Pistol C4 M4s and MP5s only drop off of airdrops and shotguns/p250/9mm Pistols are able to drop off zombies but are a 1/500 chance. We also have Door sharing, Private Messaging, see who is online, Low Droprates and such. Plus an Admin Tool that allow sme to make moderators with only kick and ban. Thomas the creator of Oxide has made acouple posts on the thread and approves of it in a big way :D[/QUOTE] same :)

This is exactly why we set our airdrops at min players 20. This doesn't eliminate the problem, but it helps fan out resources.

[QUOTE=iamcpc;43455061]if a server has no airdrops then no one can craft explosives so there are WAY less c4[/QUOTE] This is NOT true. On my server, the other admins and I decided to disable airdrops to ensure explosives were not obtained hoping the only way to get C4 was from zombies. However, we have found that zombies and loot chests DO drop the explosives needed for crafting C4. I thought maybe a hacker or a program had spawned the C4 until I found some on a zombie as well. If you guys know how to fully disable craftable C4 please let me know. We were advertising a hard to get C4 server but this issue has gotten out of hand. Once the players were able to loot explosives, it was game over.

[QUOTE=Direclaw;43456152]This is NOT true. On my server, the other admins and I decided to disable airdrops to ensure explosives were not obtained hoping the only way to get C4 was from zombies. However, we have found that zombies and loot chests DO drop the explosives needed for crafting C4. I thought maybe a hacker or a program had spawned the C4 until I found some on a zombie as well.[/QUOTE] You can use one of the drop list editors to remove it properly (or do it manually - just remove that line altogether from each file) - though without wiping the player saves, you won't be able to remove their ability to craft if they've already achieved it.

[QUOTE=Bongfu;43455212]How did you do that?[/QUOTE] DropParty mod [url]http://facepunch.com/showthread.php?t=1339912[/url] [editline]7th January 2014[/editline] [QUOTE=lunatic1979;43455224]Wahhhhhhhh my pixels were destroyed....... snivels ...[/QUOTE] I'm a non-combatant on my server, child.

you guys are trying to control way to much shit.. if people can craft c4 LET THEM.... This is fucking Alpha...

[QUOTE=lunatic1979;43456863]you guys are trying to control way to much shit.. if people can craft c4 LET THEM.... This is fucking Alpha...[/QUOTE] (surprisingly) I agree, despite the rudeness lol. I mean, if you want to mod your server then go for it (that's your prerogative), but the problem with that is then you aren't really testing the game the way the devs need it to be tested. There's a reason guns and c4 are so common, and it's not going to stay that way forever. Quite frankly, it's because we're still in early alpha. That's just how it is. :/

[QUOTE=Sievers808;43456887](surprisingly) I agree, despite the rudeness lol. I mean, if you want to mod your server then go for it (that's your prerogative), but the problem with that is then you aren't really testing the game the way the devs need it to be tested. There's a reason guns and c4 are so common, and it's not going to stay that way forever. Quite frankly, it's because we're still in early alpha. That's just how it is. :/[/QUOTE] This would be true if my purpose was to be here as an alpha or beta tester, but that's not the case. We're playing this game because they wanted some more money, to continue development or otherwise. I pay for my server. I, and the players on my server, paid for the game. Does that mean we can expect a bug-free, complete product? No. But it does mean we can play how we like.

[QUOTE=lunatic1979;43456863]you guys are trying to control way to much shit.. if people can craft c4 LET THEM.... This is fucking Alpha...[/QUOTE] Yeah, I mean with thousands of people raiding houses with it every single day for the past few months, we still can't even know for sure if there might be a bug with it! Especially if a hand full of servers make it difficult to do. I mean, you take a couple hundred away from tens of thousands and you may as well chuck the game out of the window.

Great to hear some people are running servers that are dealing with this... but what are they!! I'd love to play on them. Please post the info! Thanks.

[QUOTE=superhans18;43457813]Great to hear some people are running servers that are dealing with this... but what are they!! I'd love to play on them. Please post the info! Thanks.[/QUOTE] It's probably difficult to find them, as you can't advertise everything in your server name. If you're interested in playing on my server, send me a PM.

[QUOTE=superhans18;43457813]Great to hear some people are running servers that are dealing with this... but what are they!! I'd love to play on them. Please post the info! Thanks.[/QUOTE] At least one starts with [Rust++] in the list - you should be able to find that thread pretty easily in the Servers subforum. There's also an [EU] Official Oxide Server (something like that) where they've limited the availability of high-grade weapons and made C4 rare too I believe (going from memory here as I'm on mobile). Perhaps you can start a thread asking about these sorts of servers in the correct Subforum, to collect a list of servers doing this :)

Excellent. Thanks again guys.

[QUOTE=superhans18;43457813]Great to hear some people are running servers that are dealing with this... but what are they!! I'd love to play on them. Please post the info! Thanks.[/QUOTE] Under The Rust Server Section it has 1.7k views and 50 replies. TyrannicGaming.net is my server net.connect ustx90.playrust.eu:28010 Thread here: [url]http://facepunch.com/showthread.php?t=1343106&p=43458336&posted=1#post43458336[/url] Enjoy man :)

[QUOTE=Sievers808;43455263]Metal walls are more difficult to destroy if you place them the right way. There are TWO sides to a metal wall, one has some darker metal framework sorta thing on it, you want that side out. Do some testing, it's much easier to bust thru one side of the wall than it is the other.[/QUOTE] No matter the side, it only takes three charges to blow a metal wall, unless it's bugged.

[QUOTE=Gliktch;43458017]At least one starts with [Rust++] in the list - you should be able to find that thread pretty easily in the Servers subforum. [/QUOTE] Yep, I play on a Rust ++ server that limits C4. It makes the game much more realistic IMHO. Military grade C4 should be fairly rare.