What you did wrong - Rust - Facepunch Forum

The legacy rust was successful, without a doubt. So what you decided to do was to rebuild the game from scratch changing it so much. There are 2 crucial mistakes you made with the new rust that make it worse than legacy (And no, I will not play legacy. It is overpopulated with hackers at this point in time) - The lack of explosives, I am gonna explain this with two scenarios Scenario 1: You spend the game gathering loot, building your base, researching weapons/armor and eventually gather explosives Scenario 2: You go into your mouse settings, enable click lock and start hitting a wall with a rock while you go AFK Being able to raid used to be something which you had to work for. Now any idiot with a rock can tear down a wall - Random Gen; it is the opposite of what it is intended to be I remember only ever coming back to rust after I was finished with a server because I wanted to try surviving in a different location on the map. Now that those locations are gone there is never any motivation for me to go back. Even when you get POI's in rust it won't be the same motivation. When you decide to try and survive in a new location you know your play-through is going to be different but with random gen every play-through is the same (Because you know you are just gonna explore, find a place and live there). Random gen is intended to be a way of making every play-through different and hopefully you understand why I believe it makes every play-through the same How to solve these issues - Add in explosives and disallow destroying walls with rocks - Add in the option to use rust island or even a completely new hand-crafted map - Add in horses (Just to push the new rust above the old; giving it a bit of a boost, [url]http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=257203414[/url])

I agree that the game needs explosives, or some form of explosives. Doesn't have to be the same as C4 but something that can blow a hole through a wall but be dangerous at the same time. Ideally I'd like to see the same Explosives/C4 crafting as Legacy, but making Explosives an EXTREMELY RARE BP drop. If Research Kits are not coming back, then finding an Explosives BP should be the rarest thing in the game. As for the map, I don't care for Legacy's map. The same thing gets boring real fast. Procedural Maps are one of the best parts of New Rust.

Fuck. Seriously? Another one of these threads? :suicide:

[QUOTE=Linx77;46987073]Being able to raid used to be something which you had to work for. Now any idiot with a rock can tear down a wall[/QUOTE] Breaking into a well-built home solo is very difficult. Not impossible, but difficult. You're going to be exposed for several minutes while chugging away with a hatchet, during which time the base owner (or any other player) can sneak up behind you and blow you away. Been there, done that. You'll need at least 2-3 players to hatchet your way into any well-built home. Adding explosives into the game is what deadlocked all the legacy servers. Get some nolifers who do nothing but grind C4 all day, have them show up with their buddies during non-peak hours, and every base on the server is gone in 20 minutes. Once a strong gang showed up with C4 and started making regular patrols, it became impossible for anyone else to advance. No thanks.

You paid to alpha test their game, not criticize their development process. Get the fuck out of here with these entitled baby threads.

[QUOTE=Maximum Over;46987297]Breaking into a well-built home solo is very difficult. Not impossible, but difficult. You're going to be exposed for several minutes while chugging away with a hatchet, during which time the base owner (or any other player) can sneak up behind you and blow you away. Been there, done that. You'll need at least 2-3 players to hatchet your way into any well-built home. Adding explosives into the game is what deadlocked all the legacy servers. Get some nolifers who do nothing but grind C4 all day, have them show up with their buddies during non-peak hours, and every base on the server is gone in 20 minutes. Once a strong gang showed up with C4 and started making regular patrols, it became impossible for anyone else to advance. No thanks.[/QUOTE] Hahahahahah, thank, that was funny! Wait... you serious now?) So what if they will you while you will hit wall naked? You lose nothing, just go back there and start hitting wall again. And again. But if there is a gang walks around, with enough c4 to blow up average 15-20 rooms house, with 2-4 c4 on one room (depends on metal or wood), what stopping anyone from killing them and talking stuff that they was collecting for weeks? Anyone can go down with headshot from the window, shotgun jump from the roof, and the greatest thing - is that you can spawn in your house and attack again, but they need to walk all the way back to the place where they die. So, every single average player can put down a band. Telling you from 5 months solo play expirience on legacy.

[QUOTE=Zipper Bear;46987408]You paid to alpha test their game, not criticize their development process.[/QUOTE] Right, the latter is and should be free.

[QUOTE=Linx77;46987073] - Add in explosives and disallow destroying walls with rocks[/QUOTE] Maybe some hashed together black powder beast of an explosive but C4 has no place in the primitive world, found on occasion....sure but as a mainstay raiding tool? No. Try this: - Wood Walls [Breakable with Axes] - Stone Walls [Breakable with Pickaxes/Siege Weapons(Catapult, Trebuchet, Battering Rams)] - Metal Walls [Black Powder Bombs/Siege Weapons] Tools take far longer to break something, I'm talking at least 30 minutes for 3 guys on stone here, possibly 2 hours on something like reinforced stone but will not damage the goods inside. This would also be without regeneration so this task might be split over several sessions. Siege Weapons and Bombs demolish quickly, however they have a high chance of passing to the next wall and ruining anything inside, not to mention the cost and time to build these tools of destruction. Then if we add in the defender's traps, that sounds more balanced to me but I dunno about you. Regeneration also needs to go, but there should be a visible change when a wall reaches 95% health, something obvious. Repairing needs to be a manual task.

[QUOTE=ElvenNeko;46989526]Hahahahahah, thank, that was funny! Wait... you serious now?) So what if they will you while you will hit wall naked? You lose nothing, just go back there and start hitting wall again. And again. But if there is a gang walks around, with enough c4 to blow up average 15-20 rooms house, with 2-4 c4 on one room (depends on metal or wood), what stopping anyone from killing them and talking stuff that they was collecting for weeks? Anyone can go down with headshot from the window, shotgun jump from the roof, and the greatest thing - is that you can spawn in your house and attack again, but they need to walk all the way back to the place where they die. So, every single average player can put down a band. Telling you from 5 months solo play expirience on legacy.[/QUOTE] Because they wait until non-peak hours so there's no one on to stop them. As a solo player I used to jump on servers with 0-3 people and have a blast raiding all the weak poorly protected bases. [editline]22nd January 2015[/editline] [QUOTE=Linx77;46987073]The legacy rust was successful, without a doubt. So what you decided to do was to rebuild the game from scratch changing it so much. There are 2 crucial mistakes you made with the new rust that make it worse than legacy (And no, I will not play legacy. It is overpopulated with hackers at this point in time) - The lack of explosives, I am gonna explain this with two scenarios Scenario 1: You spend the game gathering loot, building your base, researching weapons/armor and eventually gather explosives Scenario 2: You go into your mouse settings, enable click lock and start hitting a wall with a rock while you go AFK Being able to raid used to be something which you had to work for. Now any idiot with a rock can tear down a wall - Random Gen; it is the opposite of what it is intended to be I remember only ever coming back to rust after I was finished with a server because I wanted to try surviving in a different location on the map. Now that those locations are gone there is never any motivation for me to go back. Even when you get POI's in rust it won't be the same motivation. When you decide to try and survive in a new location you know your play-through is going to be different but with random gen every play-through is the same (Because you know you are just gonna explore, find a place and live there). Random gen is intended to be a way of making every play-through different and hopefully you understand why I believe it makes every play-through the same How to solve these issues - Add in explosives and disallow destroying walls with rocks - Add in the option to use rust island or even a completely new hand-crafted map - Add in horses (Just to push the new rust above the old; giving it a bit of a boost, [url]http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=257203414[/url])[/QUOTE] [URL="https://trello.com/playrust"]https://trello.com/playrust[/URL] [URL="http://playrust.com/devblog-40/#more-2280"]http://playrust.com/devblog-40/#more-2280[/URL] Please read the above links and return with updated feedback.

[QUOTE=eFFeRR;46987117]I agree that the game needs explosives, or some form of explosives. Doesn't have to be the same as C4 but something that can blow a hole through a wall but be dangerous at the same time. Ideally I'd like to see the same Explosives/C4 crafting as Legacy, but making Explosives an EXTREMELY RARE BP drop. If Research Kits are not coming back, then finding an Explosives BP should be the rarest thing in the game. As for the map, I don't care for Legacy's map. The same thing gets boring real fast. Procedural Maps are one of the best parts of New Rust.[/QUOTE] At least the legacy map should be in the new rust for those of us who want to experience the new rust without giving up our treasured map [QUOTE=Maximum Over;46987297]Breaking into a well-built home solo is very difficult. Not impossible, but difficult. You're going to be exposed for several minutes while chugging away with a hatchet, during which time the base owner (or any other player) can sneak up behind you and blow you away. Been there, done that. You'll need at least 2-3 players to hatchet your way into any well-built home. Adding explosives into the game is what deadlocked all the legacy servers. Get some nolifers who do nothing but grind C4 all day, have them show up with their buddies during non-peak hours, and every base on the server is gone in 20 minutes. Once a strong gang showed up with C4 and started making regular patrols, it became impossible for anyone else to advance. No thanks.[/QUOTE] I am not sure how that happened but I don't believe someone can get so many explosives that easily. Additionally the map would be too large for those people to destroy every single base on it and I am guessing it was a server with resource boost mods on or anyone who does do that is wasting their life. Explosives are not easy to craft and it is almost impossible to get enough explosives to raid an entire server every day, I have never seen anything like that happen ever before on rust [QUOTE=Malexion;46990021]Maybe some hashed together black powder beast of an explosive but C4 has no place in the primitive world, found on occasion....sure but as a mainstay raiding tool? No. Try this: - Wood Walls [Breakable with Axes] - Stone Walls [Breakable with Pickaxes/Siege Weapons(Catapult, Trebuchet, Battering Rams)] - Metal Walls [Black Powder Bombs/Siege Weapons] Tools take far longer to break something, I'm talking at least 30 minutes for 3 guys on stone here, possibly 2 hours on something like reinforced stone but will not damage the goods inside. This would also be without regeneration so this task might be split over several sessions. Siege Weapons and Bombs demolish quickly, however they have a high chance of passing to the next wall and ruining anything inside, not to mention the cost and time to build these tools of destruction. Then if we add in the defender's traps, that sounds more balanced to me but I dunno about you. Regeneration also needs to go, but there should be a visible change when a wall reaches 95% health, something obvious. Repairing needs to be a manual task.[/QUOTE] Rust isn't a game about the early human settlers on earth who were just learning to use tools. It's about the survivors of apocalyptic events in the forests full of wolves and bears. I suppose the explosives could be dodgy looking if that makes you happier I think that the new rust will never reach the level of the good formula that was the original but it should at least be close to as good of a quality

[QUOTE=Linx77;46992621]At least the legacy map should be in the new rust for those of us who want to experience the new rust without giving up our treasured map. [B]rust island is being imported/rebooted too, but procedural maps will remain the default as far as i know.[/B] I am not sure how that happened but I don't believe someone can get so many explosives that easily. Additionally the map would be too large for those people to destroy every single base on it and I am guessing it was a server with resource boost mods on or anyone who does do that is wasting their life. Explosives are not easy to craft and it is almost impossible to get enough explosives to raid an entire server every day, I have never seen anything like that happen ever before on rust. [B]presume he means that they raided each place until the majority of players rage quit over the loss of progress, ie "i finally found a bolty and they raided me and took it, fuck this game!" it would be pretty pointless to literally demolish houses in legacy, c4 IS too expensive to waste like that.[/B] Rust isn't a game about the early human settlers on earth who were just learning to use tools. It's about the survivors of apocalyptic events in the forests full of wolves and bears. I suppose the explosives could be dodgy looking if that makes you happier [B]well no, it's not about early settlers or guns and explosives would be out of place. but it is about what a person with no training could realistically craft from primitive/scavenged supplies, so dodgy looking explosives would be about right;)[/B][/QUOTE]

I honestly thought C4 made raiding too easy. True, it wasn't exactly easy to obtain, but raiding felt like less of an achievement and more of just an everyday task. Raiding should be hard to do. It should be something you have to plan out with people in detail, not just bust open a wall with C4 or bash walls with hatchets. So, I guess in my opinion, I don't think raiding has been done right at all yet. The concept is there, but there's really no big sense of achievement for me.

[QUOTE=Rahu X;46993200]I honestly thought C4 made raiding too easy. True, it wasn't exactly easy to obtain, but raiding felt like less of an achievement and more of just an everyday task. Raiding should be hard to do. It should be something you have to plan out with people in detail, not just bust open a wall with C4 or bash walls with hatchets. So, I guess in my opinion, I don't think raiding has been done right at all yet. The concept is there, but there's really no big sense of achievement for me.[/QUOTE] It definitely makes it feel like more of an accomplishment than beating a wall with a rock until it breaks. The degree of satisfaction you get from a raid is dictated by the amount of loot you get, nothing other than that affects your feeling of accomplishment One of my fondest memories of rust was raiding a virtually unraidable base. Made possible by the old building system (The fact that the base was virtually unraidable I mean) but nothing is more satisfying than hearing the ticking sound of the explosive and hearing the wall collapse as you charge in and grab all you can

Raiding in old Rust was painfully easy. Three of us would go to a vanilla server and have full m4's, bolts, and kevlar within 2-3 hours. C4 took maybe 4-5 hours at the absolute most, and we weren't even a big or efficient group. I ran a server that started vanilla with just QoL mods like friends and messaging. There was a group of ~13 and was up and raiding by that evening. Raiding was painfully easy, dull, and the loot acquirement was a joke on vanilla servers. If you actually thought this was good gameplay or in any way difficult you were probably just garbage as a player.

[QUOTE]Raiding should be hard to do. It should be something you have to plan out with people in detail, not just bust open a wall with C4 or bash walls with hatchets.[/QUOTE] Maybe you should try to stop raiding hobos with 1-4 rooms in wooden house, and start raiding people who have 10x10 metal houses with 3-4 floors, all rooms have doors, and all full of crates, but you can farm only 2-4 c4 per day, that would be enough only for 2 doors or 1 wall. Ho much time you will spend on farming c4 before you start raiding that house? Will you just blast any wall and hope that you will get lucky, or you will try to spy on owners, try to look trough walls for the room they have used the most? Or less (because they need it to be secure)?

[QUOTE=ElvenNeko;46993532]Maybe you should try to stop raiding hobos with 1-4 rooms in wooden house, and start raiding people who have 10x10 metal houses with 3-4 floors, all rooms have doors, and all full of crates, but you can farm only 2-4 c4 per day, that would be enough only for 2 doors or 1 wall. Ho much time you will spend on farming c4 before you start raiding that house? Will you just blast any wall and hope that you will get lucky, or you will try to spy on owners, try to look trough walls for the room they have used the most? Or less (because they need it to be secure)?[/QUOTE] If you were only capable of 2-4 c4 per day you weren't playing the game well at all. Please, take a seat and let the adults talk.

[QUOTE=ElvenNeko;46993532]Maybe you should try to stop raiding hobos with 1-4 rooms in wooden house, and start raiding people who have 10x10 metal houses with 3-4 floors, all rooms have doors, and all full of crates, but you can farm only 2-4 c4 per day, that would be enough only for 2 doors or 1 wall. Ho much time you will spend on farming c4 before you start raiding that house? Will you just blast any wall and hope that you will get lucky, or you will try to spy on owners, try to look trough walls for the room they have used the most? Or less (because they need it to be secure)?[/QUOTE] So having to repeat the process more times is what makes it fun? Right now raiding is the equivalent of a smash and grab robbery and about as rewarding as holding up a convenient store.

The old raiding was better than beating a wall until it breaks. The raiding system was fantastic in the old rust. I am pretty sure the people who are getting explosives within 5 hours are exaggerating, 7 hours minimum just to get M4's. I have played 180 hours of rust and I can honestly say that 5 hours is not long enough to get explosives, especially when you have to build a base, get guns, get armor, get attacked and actually play the game rather than hiding near rad-town and looting it every day until you get what you want. The raiding in the old rust was certainly fantastic and likely what made it so successful

Did people honestly farm just enough animals to get 2 C4, pick a base completely at random, and never come out with materials to make more C4? Honestly? You would think so with all the people complaining about how much harder it was to raid in legacy. I think it's more likely that they don't like that they are vulnerable while raiding now, and it makes all the more sense when you realize that you got raided most often when you weren't online. You never knew where anyone else on the server lived? You never saw them complain that they were just raided last night? You never noticed gaping holes in walls? You never picked targets in a way that got you more materials so you could raid more? You never killed the people you saw farming animals, choosing to instead farm animals on your own? Who are you mythical people that think raiding was any kind of challenge at all in Legacy? I'm not opposed to explosives (see the slow moving powder keg holder idea), but keeping the raiders visible as raiders like they currently are adds a nice touch of balance that was completely lacking in Legacy. Raiding people that are offline is suddenly dangerous as well because you're not in and out in three seconds. Actually worried that raiding is too easy for newmans now? Push for the rock to be rebalanced so that it takes four days to take out any structure piece.

I don't like raiding to be boring, that is the problem now

[QUOTE=Linx77;46993832]I don't like raiding to be boring, that is the problem now[/QUOTE] I can't really argue with that, but it was always boring for someone. It just usually wasn't the person doing the raiding that ended up with the chores. How about a timer on repairs based on the last time it was hit and getting rid of that auto regen entirely? Then raiding people who are home isn't nigh impossible. I certainly think the balance is off, but I wouldn't run back to legacy's system because of it. Let's try something new. =)

i think just scrapping the regen, and balancing out the damage/wall health quotient will really work wonders on this whole "raiding"thing.

[QUOTE=mrknifey;46994387]i think just scrapping the regen, and balancing out the damage/wall health quotient will really work wonders on this whole "raiding"thing.[/QUOTE] I think regen is there only because we don't have manual repair, yet.

[QUOTE=balu92;46994456]I think regen is there only because we don't have manual repair, yet.[/QUOTE] yeah agreed, though also to facilitate auto building so it's not hammer sim 2015;)

[QUOTE=mrknifey;46994497]yeah agreed, though also to facilitate auto building so it's not hammer sim 2015;)[/QUOTE] We might get something like in The Forest.

Regen has made me miss one thing from the gold walls days. Back when it took about an hour to hit through a wall, I would creep around someone's base and hit the wall a while, then after a bit wander off. I'd do this until eventually, after one of these five/ten minute sessions the stone would show through the metal. At that point I would finish it off. I'd make sure I hit some other walls nearby once so they all turned silver, so it was harder to figure out which one I was hitting. Sure, someone could repair the wall easy, but you would be surprised how few did.

The game is in development. I don't understand why people "bitch" about how better Rust legacy is. This version will surpass the old version one day. Until then, please keep bull shit post like this off the here.

[QUOTE=Spietzack;46994850]The game is in development. I don't understand why people "bitch" about how better Rust legacy is. This version will surpass the old version one day. Until then, please keep bull shit post like this off the here.[/QUOTE] I think people are allowed to gripe a little, otherwise the devs wouldn't know what bothered people. It gets annoying when it's the same things over and over...but I never got the search to work properly, it just showed gibberish. I have heard and been linked to a search that works once, but I wasn't able to find it again when I went looking for it. An easier to find working forum search might (hey, you never know) cut down on these posts.

[QUOTE=ElvenNeko;46989526]So what if they will you while you will hit wall naked? You lose nothing, just go back there and start hitting wall again. And again. [/quote] Except you're not getting into a well-built base with a rock. It's funny that your argument is that "raiding is too easy so give me a device that takes down walls instantly". [quote]But if there is a gang walks around, with enough c4 to blow up average 15-20 rooms house, with 2-4 c4 on one room (depends on metal or wood), what stopping anyone from killing them and talking stuff that they was collecting for weeks?[/quote] That's the "legacy deadlock" everyone keeps talking about. Legacy Rust became C4 Simulator 2014. With no defenses against C4, there was no point to having bases or collecting loot. Once that happened, people (except the "I WANT CoD WITH CRAFTING" crowd) started getting bored, and here we are. [QUOTE=Linx77;46992621]I am not sure how that happened but I don't believe someone can get so many explosives that easily.[/quote] There are "nolifers" who grind the server for hours on end, stockpiling dozens or hundreds of C4s (especially on the "instacraft" servers). C4 was VERY easy to obtain in vanilla legacy. [quote]Additionally the map would be too large for those people to destroy every single base on it and I am guessing it was a server with resource boost mods on or anyone who does do that is wasting their life.[/quote] Totally agree with "wasting their life". That's why they're called "nolifers". But the map definitely wasn't too big. I'm sure a few bases could have been well hidden, but the problem with having the same map on every legacy server is that it's easy to memorize all the good hiding spots. The only solution was to build a base that was a ten-minute sprint up into the northern wastelands, then hope nobody follows you up there (or that no admin is TPing to you). [quote]Explosives are not easy to craft and it is almost impossible to get enough explosives to raid an entire server every day, I have never seen anything like that happen ever before on rust[/quote] Then you didn't play legacy much. [editline]23rd January 2015[/editline] There's no doubt the raiding system is either broken or a back-burnered work in progress, depending on who you ask. It's obvious the devs meant to make raiding a team effort (hence the fast regen), but hatcheting through a wall is ridiculous. Lockpicking, door smashing, crawling through a window, prying, all far more likely than hatcheting through a wall or ceiling. Make it so that 4+ players carrying a battering ram smashing through the door is the only way to get in. Or allow the homeowner to set rudimentary booby traps, or even set fire to their house. That wouldn't stop raiding, but it would deny booty to the raiders.

[QUOTE=withnail;46995034]I think people are allowed to gripe a little, otherwise the devs wouldn't know what bothered people. It gets annoying when it's the same things over and over...but I never got the search to work properly, it just showed gibberish. I have heard and been linked to a search that works once, but I wasn't able to find it again when I went looking for it. An easier to find working forum search might (hey, you never know) cut down on these posts.[/QUOTE] The search box in the top right requires you to log in (it's labpunch) now that public viewing of threads is disabled. The actual search function is at the center top. However, the default page that loads is worthless, click the left tab for single topic search. That's the REAL search function of the forum.