Starter BP list - Rust - Facepunch Forum

hey guys, just a quick one to open up discussion about what makes sense to be made without having to research the appropriate BP. i know stuff will be balanced, but feel free to throw your thoughts into the thread in the mean time:) [B]so personally i think anything primitive should be part of your starter set.[/B] hammer paper building plan stone hatchet wood spear stone spear hunting bow arrow torch campfire furnace (workbench) low grade fuel sleeping bag burlap clothes bandages storage box [B]once you have a furnace, you could make the following without BPs using metal.[/B] hatchet pick salvaged axe salvaged pick salvaged hammer large storage box lock (bed) [B]probably need blueprints for the following[/B] code lock eoka (debatable) revolver pipe shotty (debatable) shotgun thompson ak bolty pistol ammo shotgun ammo rifle ammo gunpowder more interesting clothing armour (debatable) bear traps small/large medkit (primitive grenades) (primitive "c4") (blood draw kit) [B]only lootable.[/B] chocolate water bottle cans of anything granola bars rad pills flares rations (signal flares) (grenades) (c4) have i missed anything?

Looks good to me!

[QUOTE=neil.hillman;46945285]Looks good to me![/QUOTE] Well what about like Primitive fre arms like the revolver and Bolt action And the thompson?

[QUOTE=Anonsan12;46945857]Well what about like Primitive fre arms like the revolver and Bolt action And the thompson?[/QUOTE] i count them amongst the other firearms, needing blueprints. the common person could come up with a pointy rock on a stick, and little campfire or something that covers his body. but making a revolver needs a little information about how it works. the pipe shotty i was iffy about since its pretty primitive, but in the end i came to the same decision; too complex to make with no information. for me, the primitive guns should cost less resources than the modern guns, and maybe use primitive ammo instead of real ammo. i kind of picture the hand cannon/eoka as a shorter range shotty even though it is currently a pistol of sorts.

Agreed. I would just split armor in basic armor and more complex armor that needs a blueprint.

Instead of defining a list of what should be in starter BP, we could discuss rules from which we can derive items. For example, what's the rationale behind these lists you presented? Answering this, we can build more consistent lists, imho. What do you guys think about it?

[QUOTE=ArthSath;46947592]For example, what's the rationale behind these lists you presented? Answering this, we can build more consistent lists, imho. What do you guys think about it?[/QUOTE] well the basic rationale is "what can the average person make under what circumstances". from there its just opinion, which is kind of why i posted it for discussion. the [B]primitive gear[/B] is the basics needed to survive + a few things to smelt metal. it's the stuff that anyone can make with a little time and thought, like basic clothing, a stick with a rock on it (spear or hatchet). [B]simple gear[/B] is stuff that emulates primitive gear, but requires the ability to smelt metal to make it. a metal hatchet is basically just a stone hatchet with a metal head in terms of design. a basic lock wouldn't be hard to make with some metal, and a bed is the same. the[B]bp only[/B] gear is higher tier tech that an "average" person would not have the skill to make without some mechanical/engineering knowledge. thus includes all firearms, chemical products, code locks etc. [B]loot only[/B] gear is stuff that we don't really have the ability to make. for example, chocolate, medication, magnesium flares, and military rations.

Got it. Your rationale is something like the "survivability value" of an item, right? I just started to follow the game development in deep some days ago. When I saw ur topic, I started to think about a different rationale to sort the items in ur list. For example, I would add salvaged items to loot only because this kind of equipment is not created but salvaged. From your point of view, they may be right placed, but from mine, it does not make sense. Idk what the devs/community think about this other rationale, idk if keeping a somehow logic approach for item composition is important, but i think that way. You cant make a salvaged item from iron and wood. Also, you cant make a hatchet from just wood and iron, you need some tools, an anvil and fire. The game cannot be fully realistic, of course. But a more complex crafting system is very cool imo.

[QUOTE=mrknifey;46948471]well the basic rationale is "what can the average person make under what circumstances". from there its just opinion, which is kind of why i posted it for discussion. the [B]primitive gear[/B] is the basics needed to survive + a few things to smelt metal. it's the stuff that anyone can make with a little time and thought, like basic clothing, a stick with a rock on it (spear or hatchet). [B]simple gear[/B] is stuff that emulates primitive gear, but requires the ability to smelt metal to make it. a metal hatchet is basically just a stone hatchet with a metal head in terms of design. a basic lock wouldn't be hard to make with some metal, and a bed is the same. the[B]bp only[/B] gear is higher tier tech that an "average" person would not have the skill to make without some mechanical/engineering knowledge. thus includes all firearms, chemical products, code locks etc. [B]loot only[/B] gear is stuff that we don't really have the ability to make. for example, chocolate, medication, magnesium flares, and military rations.[/QUOTE] well What about a slamfire shotgun that functions like the eoka pistol and the Slam fire shotgun is made with a 2x4 and a 10 inch pipe the 2x4 serves as a stock and the pipe is the barrel and the ammo is the common 12 gauge Buckshot shell or slug.

I definitely agree... Even little child can make a bow... Come on. That is so stupid. I love the game but I ain't gonna play it 'till I'll be able to craft lock. On official servers right now, it's lock or nothing, and that is crazy.

I think people are missing the fact, the starter list should be based on whats best for gameplay, not what is logical to make in real life.

Are you up for alternative suggestions as to the BP system, instead of simple feedback/criticism? I am asking first, in-case you would consider such a thing as hijacking the forum.

[QUOTE=cani;46949409]I think people are missing the fact, the starter list should be based on whats best for gameplay, not what is logical to make in real life.[/QUOTE] The best for gameplay depends on who is playing. Also, I think that the best for gameplay may be achieved following some logical rules of real-life.

[QUOTE=Anonsan12;46949114]well What about a slamfire shotgun that functions like the eoka pistol and the Slam fire shotgun is made with a 2x4 and a 10 inch pipe the 2x4 serves as a stock and the pipe is the barrel and the ammo is the common 12 gauge Buckshot shell or slug.[/QUOTE] yeah, but doesn't exist in the game at this time. i would expect something like that to require a) furnace to make the metal frags and b) looted gunpowder, or gunpowder made via BP. [QUOTE=ArthSath;46948988]Got it. Your rationale is something like the "survivability value" of an item, right? I just started to follow the game development in deep some days ago. When I saw ur topic, I started to think about a different rationale to sort the items in ur list. For example, I would add salvaged items to loot only because this kind of equipment is not created but salvaged. From your point of view, they may be right placed, but from mine, it does not make sense. Idk what the devs/community think about this other rationale, idk if keeping a somehow logic approach for item composition is important, but i think that way. You cant make a salvaged item from iron and wood. Also, you cant make a hatchet from just wood and iron, you need some tools, an anvil and fire.[/QUOTE] pretty much yeah. but also revolves around us being average people, not engineers or survivalists, or military. we shouldn't (imo) know how to make any kind of gun from scratch, but a bow is something every kid has made in some form or another. spears exist in basically every known tribe around the world, same with flint tools (little irrelevant, but an idea of the expected tech level i see for primitive). yeah admittedly IRL you would need more than a furnace for the sake of crafting metal tools; the game simply doesn't require that of you, just a method for turning ore into metal, so i have stuck within the mechanics of the game. salvaged gear i was a bit iffy about too. its higher tier gear than the made metal gear, but also looks more makeshift. the metal gear we make looks pretty factory standard, so it breaks the idea a bit. maybe the way to do it would be to have the metal gear as loot only, and the salvaged as made? [QUOTE=Leon Garoux;46949509]Are you up for alternative suggestions as to the BP system, instead of simple feedback/criticism? I am asking first, in-case you would consider such a thing as hijacking the forum.[/QUOTE] absolutely. no point me posting something i'm not up to discuss lol.

Alright, then - here is how I see it: You start off with absolutely no knowledge, at all, on how to build anything, except for a wooden workbench, which would literally be something such as a few logs shoved together and sanded flat. Instead, you have two different progression trees: [I]Natural Learning (Recipes):[/I] *Gain basic resources from trees, rocks, other players, and loot crates. *Using a workbench or something similar in concept, experiment with these resources by throwing them together in patterns that would naturally make sense. *For example: throwing together a stick, some wire/vines/knotted grass, and a sharpened stone, would create a flimsy stone hatchet, and you forever learn that recipe. *The first few times you create a new item, it starts off in crap condition. The longer you are on the server, and the more you build these items, the better condition they will start out with. *As an alternative, you may destroy items in order to gain a basic, or better understanding on how to create certain items. *After creating certain items enough, new item recipes can be unlocked naturally. [I]Industrial Progression (Blueprints):[/I] *Advanced items should not be craftable under any normal means. This includes everything from even the most makeshift of firearms, to creating metal houses and even many clothes. *These items will require blueprints that can only be found in loot crates or from other players. Destroying items only benefits you, should you have learned the blueprint already. *Certain blueprints will require machinery, or they might have to be placed out in the open. *Blueprints requiring machinery, will also require multiple players, working together inside of factories or other crude workshops. Without the help of other players, the process can take days, and the workshop/factory will likely be overtaken by actual factions. *Building houses with certain materials, will require a blueprint stand, which needs to be placed in the nearby vicinity in order to allow construction and placement. This will require players to be on the defensive, as bandits can attack during construction, and either take over, or steal away the blueprint(s). *As an alternative method, for instance with firearms, looted firearms can be broken down for individual parts, which can be used to create makeshift weapons which can then be regularly maintained. However, the parts themselves cannot be made by hand. Once the makeshift weapon(s) break or are stolen, you are forced to use a factory/workshop, or to salvage the necessary parts once again.

[QUOTE=Leon Garoux;46951324]Alright, then - here is how I see it:[/QUOTE] pretty interesting stuff. i think that leveled skill trees work against the "non-rpg" direction of the game, but the concept has potential.

Yeah they definitly need to add the bow to starter BPs and a lock would be nice otherwise it makes no sense to even build anything before you got a lock BP

[QUOTE=Revealer;46952289]Yeah they definitly need to add the bow to starter BPs and a lock would be nice otherwise it makes no sense to even build anything before you got a lock BP[/QUOTE] Adding bow to starter BPs would make it useful. I have yet to craft a bow yet due to fact that it requires cloth. Once I get any cloth I go straight for a forge and start making guns.

[QUOTE=Revealer;46952289]Yeah they definitly need to add the bow to starter BPs and a lock would be nice otherwise it makes no sense to even build anything before you got a lock BP[/QUOTE] Exactly, or atleast the stone spear. After you craft that, you'll be able to craft bow. About that lock. Yes I know it doesn't make sense that random guy is gonna know how to craft a lock. but as you said it doesn't make any sense to build anything. So you'll have to roam for hours 'till you find it or disconnect knowing you found nice rifle with ammo :D

Stupid post im sorry. -Edited.

I think, as a primitive weapon, a Shield should be added, even a wooden sword. Like the Gladiators (gladius) and Samurais (bokken) used. (pinched from the net) [img]http://i.imgur.com/vb9mG8q.jpg[/img] [img]http://i.imgur.com/Axi2mxi.jpg[/img] [img]http://i.imgur.com/kbvlpUA.jpg[/img] [img]http://i.imgur.com/7CRSDKq.png[/img]

I never liked wooden swords in games, but clubs would be cool. I think the shields would be an awesome addition. [IMG]http://c252289.r89.cf3.rackcdn.com/27583.jpg[/IMG] [IMG]http://www.allardauctions.com/images/auctions/Fall2009-new/Photos/0158.jpg[/IMG]

[QUOTE=Leon Garoux;46951324]The first few times you create a new item, it starts off in crap condition. The longer you are on the server, and the more you build these items, the better condition they will start out with.[/QUOTE] I think this is an interesting idea, that your weapons / tools start off nerfed, and get more buff as you use them, so someone who has been alive on the server for a couple of weeks will have some real badass weapons compared to someone starting out ... I like it!

C4 should be lootable only.

[QUOTE=RustyValve;46993541]C4 should be lootable only.[/QUOTE] "c4" should, but whatever primitive high end explosive could be made with instruction could be a blueprint only item quite nicely. maybe have 2 big explosives, one that you can make but has variable explosive potential (dynamite or whatever in a barrel/satchel) and military grade stuff (c4) that can only be looted but is far more stable in how much damage it does and how big the explosion is.

I would only hope that the loot tables and availability of blueprints and so on be completely configurable via mods like Oxide - simply to allow each and every server owner to customise the experience and realism to their own tastes.

[QUOTE=frank_walls;46971439]I never liked wooden swords in games, but clubs would be cool. I think the shields would be an awesome addition.[/QUOTE] How about a throwing club? (primitive version of a boomerang) [video=youtube;UxKENjeIPuA]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UxKENjeIPuA[/video]

[QUOTE=utilitron;46994772]How about a throwing club?[/QUOTE] bear grylls is a beast. but i think that was basically just a log he found that he decided to use as a throwing weapon; kind like drinking piss when there are easier, cleaner water sources around;) on topic though, i believe the intent is to be able to throw most weapons in the future, so we would have throwing picks, spears, rocks.

[QUOTE=mrknifey;46994411]"c4" should, but whatever primitive high end explosive could be made with instruction could be a blueprint only item quite nicely. maybe have 2 big explosives, one that you can make but has variable explosive potential (dynamite or whatever in a barrel/satchel) and military grade stuff (c4) that can only be looted but is far more stable in how much damage it does and how big the explosion is.[/QUOTE] Barrels of gunpowder with a flare stuck in the side.