Me and a bunch of rust pals had been having a lot of fun with the rust updates, until we ran into some [I]Server Admins[/I] that assaulted our base with sets of 4k bullets, stacks of hundreds of medkits over and over. There being about ten of us, although fewer at the time, we managed to hold them off a bit longer than an hour (and at the time of me writing this we still are). Abusive admins have always been a problem with rust, even in legacy more often than not it was the case. Very often it was why we left servers. It is one of the biggest things out there that takes the fun out of rust.
So why am I posting about this now if this has been a problem for ages?
Well, in the midst of all this happening, we came to find out that this sort of thing happened on this server regularly. The admins would lure people to the server with huge amounts of airdrops, then proceed to wipe out the inhabitants of their server with spawned in items, and sometimes God-Mode. They are destroying their server population through admin abuse, wipe it, wait for more people to walk into their trap, and then wreck it again.
I think it would be in the best interest of Facepunch to implement some way to prevent, or minimize at least, this sort of Admin behavior.
Some ideas :
- Force the Server Admins to decide when creating the server whether or not spawning in items will be enabled, and make it clear whether or not this is enabled in the server listing.
- When items are spawned in make a public chat message denoting it, to discourage people from playing on the server if it is not for some legitimate reason.
- Have a "creative mode" where anyone can spawn in things, and a "survival mode" where no one can spawn anything, including admins.
- Please post any ideas or opinions below!
How come "Play on official servers" isnt an option? Sure solves the admin problem for me!
Official servers would definitely be good if there were enough of them
There are enough of them in my opinion, never have a problem joining my regular official server.
Given that they are paying for the server and are granting you free access, you can:
A) Find another server.
B) Start your own server.
C) Play on official servers.
D)eal with it.
This is a common complaint, and the general response is 'They paid for the server, they can do what they like with it'.
This is kind of like saying 'Adidas can invent and sell tennis raquets, but if you see a sign for a tennis club you might get a good game of tennis, but you might get set upon by 50 Russians who beat you you to death with said raquets. It's your fault, find a proper club'.
I don't think this is a constructive response. Adidas have the right to try to ensure their raquets are used for the purpose they were designed or tennis players will all quit.
Why can't people be given the option to buy a server if they wish, but still be constrained by gameplay rules to ensure that players of the game can still enjoy it? Why can't Facepunch protect their property by ensuring a consistent game experience regardless of who owns the server?
This doesn't mean the server owner can't make tweaks, additions, choose what gear is available, design the terrain etc etc etc.
Hope you get the laboured point.
As for official servers- they suffer from the reverse problem, NO admins... so hackers ruin them. Sort this out and official servers will be viable.
[QUOTE=Dagnabbit;47004589]Given that they are paying for the server and are granting you free access, you can:
A) Find another server.
B) Start your own server.
C) Play on official servers.
D)eal with it.[/QUOTE]
Given access under false pretenses, there are plenty of servers to choose from, and the problem isn't that I can't join another server. The problem is that I never know when I join a server, or even after playing a day or two, if it will end up with me having to leave and find another.
[QUOTE=Jragon;47004970]Given access under false pretenses, there are plenty of servers to choose from, and the problem isn't that I can't join another server. The problem is that I never know when I join a server, or even after playing a day or two, if it will end up with me having to leave and find another.[/QUOTE]
to my mind it's kind of the nature of the beast. some people make their own server to have a nice community, some people just want to be able to do whatever they want, and don't give a shit about you unless you are their friend. in honesty, the only solution i have found is to leave asshole servers, and go back to good ones. even if they get new suckers by wiping the map, eventually they will make a bad name for themselves, and fewer and fewer people will come back.
[QUOTE=Jragon;47004970]Given access under false pretenses[/QUOTE]
What are these 'false pretenses' you're referring to? Did you get some kind of special promises before joining that no one else got?
I have admin rights on the server that I play on, along with 2 other people. We use our admin powers to build big impressive shit, and help people out in need, but by no means do we abuse our power. Almost every server I've ever played on has had reasonable admins, so either you're doing something wrong or I know how to find good servers.
well on my EU BATTLEFIELD Server that i had (with rust_dust2 arena map :p)
i was the only admin that had access to give via rcon, and i didn't play.
all my other admins had no access to give, and were not able to teleport to players if they had a viewable name or weren't in admin mode (god mode + invisible).
when players got hacked and stuff, i had a lot of logging stuff installed (when players looted boxes, when players built stuff, etc) so 90% of the time admins could just find the hackers house or body and take everything back. the 10% left well they had to wait for me to figure things out.
On my server no one never said admin abuse, nor were mad about how everything was handled. Actually when they knew that only 1 admin could give and the 5 others couldn't they really liked it and didn't mind to wait to get their stuff back.
But now this server doesn't exist anymore as i moved on to the new rust.
So yeah ... find a good server, usually when main admins don't play it's the most secure against abusers. And don't start your own server ... already way too much out there.
I understand it can be hard to find those servers.
I got banned once from a Legacy Rust server for getting 12-20 people to name themselves after the 12 year old admin's friend (Pig Benis). He got so mad he banned everybody with that name (I know this because I was among the last banned, the very last a friend of mine xD). Watching the confusion and the ridiculous chat filled with that name was probably one of the most amusing things I've ever seen in a multiplayer game.
The only step like this I would approve of might be a rating system of some sort. If you play a server for a number of hours, you'd be prompted to rate it. Bad ratings would fade after so much time, giving server owners a chance to get their shit together.
[QUOTE=Prov3rbial;47008909]The only step like this I would approve of might be a rating system of some sort. If you play a server for a number of hours, you'd be prompted to rate it. Bad ratings would fade after so much time, giving server owners a chance to get their shit together.[/QUOTE]
Not the best solution, but we could add a Rating & Commenting on [URL="http://www.playrusthq.com"]PlayRustHQ[/URL] for servers. At least then players have somewhere to check for past issues on that server.
As an active Server owner/admin.
at the moment we have to options two give our Admins or moderators,
both give the same authority for now I would like to see a 3 tier system
3 moderator level authority: Able to kick player for a set period up to 48 hours and use spectate and say via console that is it,
2 administrator level authority: along with level 3 also get the ability to ban players. (this is the one i would use as an owner)
1 owner level authority: all commands including give. ( i can see the need for this if you want to set up an arena or town for your players. or testing on a dev server)
To be honest i got a server because of admin abuse and i have an interest in Rust, myself and the other Admin on my server don't even log ourselves as owners or moderators, we use Rusty Rcon for everything.
I specifically got my own server starting back in legacy because I don't like playing by others rules.
I've been accused of being both types of admin. Sometimes I get told how much people love my server; other times I get called very creative adjectives. (A couple of these adjectives may even have been deserved depending on how cranky I was at the time)
For the most part, I try to be fair and only run down players on my server when it becomes the overwhelming opinion of the server that they are bothering everyone. For the most part, I don't like banning. I prefer to let the server moderate itself and let the majority pick and choose who to put up with.
That being said... Consider every time you log onto a private server its like being invited onto a private piece of land where the only rule is the owner and admins can do whatever they want. The only consequence is that what they want to do is make your play time a living hell.
This way, there can be no disappointment when that happens; and finding a nice server will be a pleasant surprise.
They are out there. There are plenty of well managed servers.
Asking the server owners to live in fear that Facepunch will deny them a server simply because they do what they want on their server will only serve to limit the owned servers.
I like to think I'm rather fair and let most people do whatever they want on mine (with a few exceptions here and there).
But I would definitely not host a server if I could be denied that server simply because someone disagreed with how I chose to act on something that I set up and run.
[QUOTE=Jragon;47004520]we came to find out that this sort of thing happened on this server regularly.[/QUOTE]
This happened regularly, and you kept going back? Doesn't sound like abusive admins are the source of your problems here.
[quote] - Please post any ideas or opinions below![/quote]
I notice you conspicuously left "find a different server" off the list. Otherwise, your argument amounts to this:
"THE PEOPLE WHO PAID FOR THIS SERVER ARE BEING LIKE SOOOOOOO UNFAIR, AND I HAVE A RIGHT TO PLAY HERE SO I DEMAND SOMEBODY ELSE DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT!111!!"
[QUOTE=Maximum Over;47010990]This happened regularly, and you kept going back? Doesn't sound like abusive admins are the source of your problems here.
I notice you conspicuously left "find a different server" off the list. Otherwise, your argument amounts to this:
"THE PEOPLE WHO PAID FOR THIS SERVER ARE BEING LIKE SOOOOOOO UNFAIR, AND I HAVE A RIGHT TO PLAY HERE SO I DEMAND SOMEBODY ELSE DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT!111!!"[/QUOTE]
First off, we found out from other players that this has happened regularly, it wasn't through our own experiences.
Secondly, find a different server is off the list simply because 4/5 servers we have chosen has had abusive admins. On another server an admin teleported into our base and killed all of us while in godmode, simply because we killed him building a house about 30 meters away from an airdrop that just landed. And then he proceeded to ban our friend due to calling him out for abusing for "disrespecting the server". Other times we have had admins put on godmode and raid our base. This is just from experiencing a few Experimental Rust servers. At least it's no where close to being as terrible as Legacy was.
[QUOTE=Pilgrimm;47012037]...find a different server is off the list simply because 4/5 servers we have chosen has had abusive admins.[/QUOTE]
thats a bit silly. if you find 4/5 servers have abusive admins, play on the one that doesn't. and if you find 5/5 have abusive admins, keep looking until you find one that isn't filled with dickheads.
There is no admin abuse on my servers but then I only monitor the servers don't really play. Other admins needs to record and give reasons before bans/kicks and logs are in place to maintain a healthy player experience. I agree with mrknifey, maybe some research in to servers before you play? I've been subject to admin abuse when I first started Rust hence the reason I decided to buy my own servers.
Really, if you're forking over the $$$'s for the server monthly without collecting any offsetting fees...I guess you should be able to do whatever you want to do on your server...including employing sketchy sub-admins. If nobody ever wants to play in your sandbox because of it...so be it.
People will continue going back to the server if you don't actually post their details, IP, admin names, suspected steam ID's etc.. Facepunch has zero interest in policing how servers are run, awareness is the best way to avoid trolls.
Frankly, if my team and I held off a group of admins spawning items for an hour or more, I'd be recording their utter failure at the game of Rust even with cheat mode enabled, and would spend the entire time serenading them with tales of how many people will be guffawing at their epic loss of manhood.
I wouldn't mind seeing a baseline for server setups. such as - locked commands.
Then all you admin / server owner (I rented for 3mnths back in legacy) who feel the absolute need to have these commands at your disposal, you can then be listed in the mod category.
Your choice - locked server / unlocked - do I show in vanilla or do I show in mod tab of browser.
I rented my own server in legacy - to avoid admin abuse (shocker there ) and hackers (surprise), pretty much the same reasons as everyone else who did it.
Why would I want to run a "locked" server with minimal admin input? So my playerbase knows Im not a jerk off. So everyone is on equal terms, in a survival game, there is no doubt.
Of course, u can still ban hackers / players / etc. and other viable commands that give you zero influence over the gameplay.
What about the hacker who took all my stuff? and theres no way the admin can spawn it back with this setup.
Oh well. 9/10 times abusive admins never gave anything back. 9/10 times admins never gave back stuff hackers took. 800 + hours in the game, I've seen a lot of bogus admins and a lot of hackers.
So whats the point? Is it really any different then what we dealt with in legacy? Not at all, the only difference is - you know the admin isn't powdering his team mates.
* well, how do u know their all bogus admins * well, in legacy you can tell when admins are spawning things, due to how the server hangs for a millisecond or 2. its unavoidable and easily detectable once you've owned your own server ( hello ), played with commands ( hi ya ) and you can feel how the server responds when such a thing happens. Its a very distinct lag.
Common sense. that works 2.
I think this game would benefit greatly. Nothing got worse than moving to different servers weekly in Legacy due to admin wipes - or the realization 4 days in, your being rolled by cmds.
Or the fact your admin tps to your house constantly, making sure u don't live in a damn rock, thus knowing all about your bases, protection, etc. 1/2 day later - when homies boyz are on - oh, wow, how did u know I was here - 15 minute walk out to nowhere. hmm, I wonder.
Its a survival game, there should be zero options for anyone to have an advantage. I want to play a vanilla game - not - john blows I do what I want server. But I want an admin'd server because we all know official ones are always a playground.
Theres a middle ground here somewhere - and it shouldn't involve me - moving server to server and hoping to get lucky - or involve me wasting 3-5 days of gametime just to realize the admin is a Tool.
Personally, for me, this topic will pretty much make or break the game for me - legacy left such a bad taste in my mouth. I highly doubt I'm the only one that feels this way. I truly feel the admin abuse is more rampant in numbers, than hackers.
I feel like there should be icons in the serverlist for servers that show you what powers admins are using.
Make an icon for "spawning in items" if the admins/moderators are able to do this so people can choose to not join it. It's just an idea though.. I don't really know exactly how necessary this is or what the negatives are to using this but I feel like filtering out servers on admin powers is a good thing.
[QUOTE=Falxhor;47014686]I feel like there should be icons in the serverlist for servers that show you what powers admins are using.[QUOTE]
I do like this idea. Less likely to abuse if the populous is aware that tools are being utilized. But again, your server, do what you want...
Why doesn't TF2 have icons or server list flags for admin on private servers that give themselves godmode and noclip around? Why aren't Minecraft servers where admin make free use of /give in survival highlighted?
Because it's their server and nobody cares what they do with it. You can always play somewhere else. On alpha, there's no permanence anyway, so servers don't have much longevity to their maps unless the admin holds back updates and requires you to turn off Rust's updates in Steam to stay on the same version as the server. (And then you can't play on other servers that are updating regularly.)
When the game is further along, servers will actually be able to develop durable communities, and the servers where admin cheat with their powers will quickly develop a reputation and be largely empty except for random joins, while trustworthy servers will be at the top of Rust community server lists.
[QUOTE=Pilgrimm;47012037]First off, we found out from other players that this has happened regularly, it wasn't through our own experiences. [/quote]
So you and these other players stuck around and kept going back to a server with abusive admins? Sorry, but you're the problem here. Stop patronizing servers with abusive admins, and those servers will go away. Simple as that.
[quote]Secondly, find a different server is off the list simply because 4/5 servers we have chosen has had abusive admins.[/quote]
There are something like 600+ vanilla community servers out there as of last night, not counting the modded servers. Are you honestly trying to say that 480 of them have abusive admins? That's ridiculous. More likely than not, you simply haven't looked around at many servers.
[quote]On another server an admin teleported into our base and killed all of us while in godmode, simply because we killed him building a house about 30 meters away from an airdrop that just landed.[/quote]
You must be playing on a modded server. Experimental has no teleport, and neither branch has a "god mode". Legacy had invisible armor, but that's it.
It all boils down to the fact that the admins only have as much power as you choose to give them. Don't like it? Find another server, and those admins have no power over you. On the other hand, if you choose to stay on the same server, then you're just feeding the trolls.
[editline]26th January 2015[/editline]
[QUOTE=mrknifey;47012159]thats a bit silly. if you find 4/5 servers have abusive admins, play on the one that doesn't. and if you find 5/5 have abusive admins, keep looking until you find one that isn't filled with dickheads.[/QUOTE]
Since the dawn of Rust, this forum has been littered with "I HATE THIS SERVER / ADMIN, SOME1 FIX IT!!11" posts. Why people can't grasp the "find another server" solution is beyond me.
[QUOTE=Maximum Over;47014819]You must be playing on a modded server. Experimental has no teleport, and neither branch has a "god mode". Legacy had invisible armor, but that's it.[/QUOTE]
Someone never heard of this legacy console command: dmg.godmode true/false
And there was an 'exploit' in the spectator mode where you could just go into spectator mode, spectate someone, and then type respawn to spawn on top of them. I don't know what the current status is on this function, but when it came out it was wildly abused, because it's intended to be for admin only but it wasn't locked down so anyone could use the commands.
I wouldn't be surprised if the server pilgrimm was on was running Oxide, though.
[QUOTE=elixwhitetail;47014899]Someone never heard of this legacy console command: dmg.godmode true/false[/quote]
You're right. Never heard of it. Probably because I never used it.
[quote]And there was an 'exploit' in the spectator mode where you could just go into spectator mode, spectate someone, and then type respawn to spawn on top of them. I don't know what the current status is on this function, but when it came out it was wildly abused, because it's intended to be for admin only but it wasn't locked down so anyone could use the commands. [/quote]
That was closed a few versions ago. Respawn now brings you back to a spawn point. The only glitch I know of involving spectate mode is these weird AC-style floating eyes that sometimes appear to the person being spectated if they turn around fast enough.
well that's definitely an optimistic view. and I share it , even if it contradicts my above post. Its how it should be, but I don't think its how it will turn out.
In your standard shooter games, there isn't anything detrimental about godmode or no clip happening to you. In rust - it can mean a lot of hours down the drain. A game killing experience. An experience that garners nothing but negative attention to the title.
This is a survival game, which we all start on equal footings. It should stay that way, obviously not referring to individual in game progression. The option shouldn't exist, or be able to be filtered. That's not hard to implement. A filter?
Seems more reliable than the community suddenly realizing - oh, these places suck, or the fact people can find / determine a reputation. Not all of us roam forums searching for key topics about servers and a holes. We don't have time for 10 k posts, and to meet every juvenile in the community. A player shouldn't have to join a forum, to know where they should play the game they just bought for a good experience.
Not sure why there's all this hostility towards the idea of a filter. If you think its moot, then you have no worries. Your super awesome server will still have players right? and new people joining. Its such a bad idea, no one will use it, so don't get butt hurt over the idea. If its as pointless as you all think, then it wont be used.
And then there's those of us who want a vanilla experience, who will use it. and enjoy the game they bought. and you can enjoy yours as well.
A filter. to be used or not to be. that is the question. Instead of choices though, lets just keep it standard, like all the other games.
You could akin it to the likes of - "Vac Secured" server filters... nah, we don't need that.
"Give Cmd Enabled" nah, we don't need that either right.
cheese, their kinda the same. one is to stop hackers, one is to notify the other of potential legit cheaters......
so much animosity for a simple solution for a nice majority of players.
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