I'm not a big fan of the current health bar, especially it showing your precise health "number". Even if we continue with a system where health has a numerated value (which I don't necessarily disagree with) we should at least hide the number. The latest change that shows blood on your display as you take damage is at least one interesting way to display that you are taking significant amounts of damage. I'd also suggest that instead of a bar we have various health "statuses" much like we have a status for being wet, or cold, etc. For example if you're in good health you have no status at all, everything is normal. Then as you drop below 75,50,25 we can have increasingly dire health statuses. Call them injured, badly injured, near death or something like that. At each of these health statuses your weapon sway increases, your speed reduces (perhaps due to the point of not being able to run anymore), harvesting resources is less efficient or any other number of negative "you got yourself hurt, idiot" effects.
I'm usually the one banging the "no artificial UIs" drum whenever someone proposes friends lists or other interface changes, but the health bar is actually something I'm okay with, although the current one is fairly large.
Maybe the health bar doesn't appear above 50% health, and instead you just have some sort of visual status indicator that signifies "healthy" or "not wounded too much", and then as you get really hurt, the situation is dire enough for the health bar to appear, half-empty. However, that also seems a little confusing, since the bar suddenly appears after you're hurt a bunch and is already half-empty.
I don't think there should be penalties when you're badly hurt, even though this would be realistic, because it just makes it easier to kill you. This becomes a legitimate game balance issue, because now whoever is first to inflict wounds to 50% (or whatever threshold) suddenly gains a dramatic upper hand in terms of agility and aim when they're [I]already winning[/I].
Plus, if it affects harvesting, you'll have people griefing by badly wounding, but not killing, nakeds, just so they run slower and harvest less.
I really like the idea of a health status, because it feels more realistic than a number. And there are a lot of gameplay possibilities, as you already said. [QUOTE=Ebrim;45497470]At each of these health statuses your weapon sway increases, your speed reduces (perhaps due to the point of not being able to run anymore), harvesting resources is less efficient or any other number of negative "you got yourself hurt, idiot" effects.[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=elixwhitetail;45497617]I'm usually the one banging the "no artificial UIs" drum whenever someone proposes friends lists or other interface changes, but the health bar is actually something I'm okay with, although the current one is fairly large.
Maybe the health bar doesn't appear above 50% health, and instead you just have some sort of visual status indicator that signifies "healthy" or "not wounded too much", and then as you get really hurt, the situation is dire enough for the health bar to appear, half-empty. However, that also seems a little confusing, since the bar suddenly appears after you're hurt a bunch and is already half-empty.
I don't think there should be penalties when you're badly hurt, even though this would be realistic, because it just makes it easier to kill you. This becomes a legitimate game balance issue, because now whoever is first to inflict wounds to 50% (or whatever threshold) suddenly gains a dramatic upper hand in terms of agility and aim when they're [I]already winning[/I].
Plus, if it affects harvesting, you'll have people griefing by badly wounding, but not killing, nakeds, just so they run slower and harvest less.[/QUOTE]
Currently, and I hope it remains as such, almost any shot from the bolt action kills or will kill you as soon as you're done bleeding out. This feels right to me. If you're in a gun fight and you get shot, well, there's not much case for you still being in that fight. As such I don't have a lot of pity for the guy who gets shot first. Similarly, if you had half your calf torn off by a wolf a few hours ago you really shouldn't be looking for a fight and if you get in one you should be at a disadvantage. I feel like if we want to encourage survival we have to make the alternative loom large and ominous.
its now on the left side too which make`s it so hard to watch for me Personaly
[QUOTE=Ebrim;45497774]Currently, and I hope it remains as such, almost any shot from the bolt action kills or will kill you as soon as you're done bleeding out. This feels right to me. If you're in a gun fight and you get shot, well, there's not much case for you still being in that fight. As such I don't have a lot of pity for the guy who gets shot first. Similarly, if you had half your calf torn off by a wolf a few hours ago you really shouldn't be looking for a fight and if you get in one you should be at a disadvantage. I feel like if we want to encourage survival we have to make the alternative loom large and ominous.[/QUOTE]
agreed. its much more realistic that we are basically dead when shot. and without bandages at this time, its brutally obvious that getting shot in the wild is a death sentence.
i'm of 2 minds about the health bar/status issue. i like that the health bar is not a matter of interpretation. 50 hp is always 50 hp, whereas a bloody screen might not "look" quite as near to death as last time; its more open to interpretation. a middle ground might be a health bar without the numbers. we all start with the same 100 hp, so its really an unnecessary element.
i would deal with it this way. no status huds up when they are full. maybe have them pop up when you go into the inventory, but otherwise, keep the screen clear. when you take damage, or get hungry, cold or wet, the status bar pops up for as long as it is relevant (ie health bar stays until you get back to 100hp). bleeding/poison triggers the health bar to be on screen. when this is resolved, it goes back to hidden.
[QUOTE=mrknifey;45503001]no status huds up when they are full. maybe have them pop up when you go into the inventory, but otherwise, keep the screen clear. when you take damage, or get hungry, cold or wet, the status bar pops up for as long as it is relevant (ie health bar stays until you get back to 100hp). bleeding/poison triggers the health bar to be on screen. when this is resolved, it goes back to hidden.[/QUOTE]
If this isn't how it's already happening, it's already been in the trello that this is basically how they want to do it. Coincidentally, that happened right around the same time that a thread popped up in the Rust subforum about changing the hud, and I added that Immersive HUD, or iHUD, was pretty much my #1 must-install Skyrim mod, after SKSE/SkyUI, because it hit the HP/MP/Stamina/compass/crosshairs elements until they were contextually needed or toggled on (and others agreed).
Edit: [URL="http://facepunch.com/showthread.php?t=1391637"]Found it![/URL]
[QUOTE=mrknifey;45503001]agreed. its much more realistic that we are basically dead when shot. and without bandages at this time, its brutally obvious that getting shot in the wild is a death sentence.
i'm of 2 minds about the health bar/status issue. i like that the health bar is not a matter of interpretation. 50 hp is always 50 hp, whereas a bloody screen might not "look" quite as near to death as last time; its more open to interpretation. a middle ground might be a health bar without the numbers. we all start with the same 100 hp, so its really an unnecessary element.
i would deal with it this way. no status huds up when they are full. maybe have them pop up when you go into the inventory, but otherwise, keep the screen clear. when you take damage, or get hungry, cold or wet, the status bar pops up for as long as it is relevant (ie health bar stays until you get back to 100hp). bleeding/poison triggers the health bar to be on screen. when this is resolved, it goes back to hidden.[/QUOTE]
On the stylistic level I absolutely agree that when everything is "normal" there should be no bars, indicators, etc. I'm just not sure that a person knowing their exact condition numerically encourages non min-max behavior. I far prefer someone thinking, "I'm injured, I should be cautious" over "I have 67 health so I can probably tank getting hit in the face by that torch and that then it'll take x hours to get back to full."
I think we have a conflict of interest.
In a "rust world" where gunfighs are extremly rare or close to non, your idea is great, because basically if you hurt yourself, you kinda are looking for it.
But the reality of Rust is that most people buys it as a "weird FPS". That explain the huge ammount of pvp servers and such.
So, if it's survival only, your idea is great, but in a world where even if you just exited your shelter you risk to get shoot by an a**hole, well.. i want as much FPS UI as possible to help myself "understand the situation".
Because it's a game. IRL you actually bleed an\or you feel weak or you feel your legs heavy and such... In a game you can't really feel such feelings so you have to have an indicator that should be as more accurate as possible.
Because, let's be honest, even with the 100 to 0 bar, if you get shoot you get shoot and you risk to die if you have no bandages or medkit. But at least you know that you got just scratched by that bullet\arrow\whatever and you might think to fight back, instead of just running for life.. AS IN REAL LIFE you will.
The "recovery times" is a great idea tho.
It would helps mitigate the pvps, unless you're a camper or a freaking pro.
[QUOTE=Ther0;45506338]I think we have a conflict of interest.
In a "rust world" where gunfighs are extremly rare or close to non, your idea is great, because basically if you hurt yourself, you kinda are looking for it.
But the reality of Rust is that most people buys it as a "weird FPS". That explain the huge ammount of pvp servers and such.
So, if it's survival only, your idea is great, but in a world where even if you just exited your shelter you risk to get shoot by an a**hole, well.. i want as much FPS UI as possible to help myself "understand the situation".
Because it's a game. IRL you actually bleed an\or you feel weak or you feel your legs heavy and such... In a game you can't really feel such feelings so you have to have an indicator that should be as more accurate as possible.
Because, let's be honest, even with the 100 to 0 bar, if you get shoot you get shoot and you risk to die if you have no bandages or medkit. But at least you know that you got just scratched by that bullet\arrow\whatever and you might think to fight back, instead of just running for life.. AS IN REAL LIFE you will.
The "recovery times" is a great idea tho.
It would helps mitigate the pvps, unless you're a camper or a freaking pro.[/QUOTE]
So that's fair. I suppose in my mind Rust conceptually wants to be more of a survival game than a FPS. That it has been more of the latter until now I consider an artifact of its early developmental stage and a phase that'll pass (the ease to implement basic fps mechanics is considerably more than fine-tuning a survival experience). Obviously, I can't read the mind of the devs and there's no shortage of my bias present in measuring what I think Rust is moving toward with what I'd like to see.
I think by all the things garry (and\or devs) said that Rust wasn't planned to be a "weird fps". That's why they're trying to make it both more fun and more difficult, to avoid PVP.
I think that Rust Legacy is kinda of an FPS because of it's own limitation as it is, you end up quickly to do whatever you want -> so you have to find something exciting to do -> so if you have your nice home, all the blueprint... you kinda have to kill someone to get some thrill. (I find hard understand why you should kill on sight, but whatever)
As a final thought i think that they keep in mind also that FPS people are a lot and potential this could lead to bigger profit, so i think they should wink at them, making it both really challenging killing people and rewarding (because even if you only look at the realistic experience, people will always be pricks.. and fi somes will try to survive, maybe by creating a community, others will mostly become bandits.).
So if you want to become a bandit, you can at your own risk, otherwise you should try the "peacefull" way.
Hey,
I believe that a "Health Status" can be accurate enough to let the player know in what state they are in; You don't necessarily need a health bar for that. I'll give you some examples below which are just some idea's put together
[B]The Health System[/B]
-A way to show the player how near he is to death, make the screen become more colourless and perhaps blurry the further you get to your death. You can also include your hearing so that your heartbeat will dominate your hearing and everything else will turn soft.
-To let a player know he has been hit, show blood spatters on the screen, and perhaps the move of the camera to show that you've been hit by something.
-To show that you are bleeding, there are various ways to depict this... One is to have your guy grunting every once in a while, another way is through visuals by showing pouring blood or w/e over your screen.
-Maybe if you can break your legs or get them hurt enough, let the player have a weird bobbing because of it, or just grunts and lies down every time you try to stand up.
[B]You get hit by something non-lethal and not bleeding[/B]
-Your visuals are less colourful but nowhere near black and white, your character grunts slightly, blood spatters on your screen and a slight camera nudge.
[B]You get hit by something non-lethal and you are bleeding[/B]
-Your visuals are less colourful but nowhere near black and white, your character grunts slightly, blood spatters on your screen and a slight camera nudge.
-Every X seconds your character will grunt, showing that he is indeed in pain. This grunting is different than being hit, also you'll notice you're starting to die.
[B]You get hit by something almost lethal[/B]
-Your visuals are fairly colourless, character grunts hard, a lot of blood spatters, you only hear your heartbeat
-Every X seconds your character grunts, but you're probably dead soon enough.
As you can see, you can think of infinite systems to implement what your character is feeling and you don't need a health bar for that. Sure, it won't show you that you went form 100 to 90 ( not really noticable ) but I think you don't need to know that at all, as it's not something that will tell you if you will live or die.
Apart from all this, I think if weapons are used, every shot should be lethal for you and unable to heal ( like someone pointed out ) if shot on a unfavourable place. I think only small wounds should be able to be healed. That way you're basically negating that people can use medkits or anything in battle and making people fight more cautious than ever before. Because yeah, one shot will be enough to lose all your loot.
@Yihka you are a ganster :) great :) i like
"As you can see, you can think of infinite systems to implement what your character is feeling and you don't need a health bar for that. Sure, it won't show you that you went form 100 to 90 ( not really noticable ) but I think you don't need to know that at all, as it's not something that will tell you if you will live or die.
Apart from all this, I think if weapons are used, every shot should be lethal for you and unable to heal ( like someone pointed out ) if shot on a unfavourable place. I think only small wounds should be able to be healed. That way you're basically negating that people can use medkits or anything in battle and making people fight more cautious than ever before. Because yeah, one shot will be enough to lose all your loot. "
but I would include a statement of this in top form, this would motivate the preparation before you leave home XD
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