As someone stated, the heart of the game is the fear and survival... however, as someone else also stated, fresh started players keeps being blocked to progress as they are constantly killed on sight without warning, thus eventually moving on from the game for hours of time and resources lost without penalty to the KoS player (really, it's even better to be a KoS if you think, like a farm: the KoS is the farmer, newbies are the cattle).
People will say that I'm whinning, but think of it: better bases, better resources (you don't even need to gather then, just kill naked guys on sight), plus, if you get wiped clean, you still have all your blueprints (that newbies will never get if they constantly loses their bows or hatchets and don't have materials to do some more). KoS gives really good advantages!
I despise KoS. I helped countless people just to be backstabbed and be laugh at on the mic. These kills don't bother me and I pretend to never go KoS, what irritates me (us) is a player that camps Rad Town just to take out and steal players that actually scavenge stuff. So, to even that, I have a sugestion!
Anyone played All Points Bulletin? You can place a bounty on a player. Come on, its a survivor FPS, someone could warm other in real life, why not in this game?
My idea is: the players with the highest PvP scores could have their name more visible than the others (help people run or drag Hunters towards him), and killing him (only if he is killed by another player) could could give the Hunter some kind of reward (untradable reward, as parties would only kill themselves for the reward and all would be cool). The bounty would be removed upon death or after a cooldown... WHADDYA THINK?
Anyone have any other idea?
Great idea! I have played APB and a bounty mechanism added to the game will add more thrill. But the bounty should also run out of time if he doesn't kill anyone in maybe 10 minutes.
wait what ? too much fantasy.
I see your point, and I understand where you coming from."The rich get richer, and the poor get poorer,but the fact of the matter is that Rust is a survival game and NO ONE can be trusted even a "newbie" with just a rock could have a shotgun packing in his hotkey to blast you in the head when he gets the chance.The bounty idea isn't the best way to solve this as it would cause more newbies wanting to go take down the beast and try to get a reward and end up losing there stuff,also the rich have played right to get to the point there at.They stayed on downlow or they went all out and killed who and whatever they saw.Attracting attention to them will probaly just feed them more and then their even richer.One can only be so rich in the game of Rust
I think a better alternative would be to make "end game", as one might call it, harder to get to. EX. Higher level crafting benches, blueprint deterioration, and some other sort of way to raid.There just needs to be some long term effects to keep the game from the "beasts" of the server getting too far with just having to kill noobs.
[QUOTE=Snow603;43506664]I see your point, and I understand where you coming from."The rich get richer, and the poor get poorer,but the fact of the matter is that Rust is a survival game and NO ONE can be trusted even a "newbie" with just a rock could have a shotgun packing in his hotkey to blast you in the head when he gets the chance.[/QUOTE]
If he would be a Wolf in Sheep's skin, the bounty system would flag him.
[QUOTE=Snow603;43506664]The bounty idea isn't the best way to solve this as it would cause more newbies wanting to go take down the beast and try to get a reward and end up losing there stuff,also the rich have played right to get to the point there at.They stayed on downlow or they went all out and killed who and whatever they saw.Attracting attention to them will probaly just feed them more and then their even richer.One can only be so rich in the game of Rust.[/QUOTE]
The way the game is going, there isn't much to do besides that, it would be player wise to keep distance and any newbie that defies that would be dumb. Besides, no smart, seasoned, player goes for a hunting with a full inventory. Besides, flagging the KoSters would draw more attention to them, evening the odds with numbers...
I know it can sound cheesy, but remember: ALPHA! Nothing is impossible (and everythng is testable)
[editline]12th January 2014[/editline]
[QUOTE=anazhd;43506633]wait what ? too much fantasy.[/QUOTE]
Not really! Anyone that played TF2 when it was released and any F2P player can tell you that the difference is astonishing. Common, if they can add classes to a game, they can create a bounty-like mechanism (this one wouldn't even require nothing besides some basic coding).
There should be no reason to even the odds with KoS. Sure, it's annoying, and it stops progression, but the game is not only about survival, but about true player freedom. In my opinion, what should be done is have the player model have a visible weapon strapped to them if they have one in their inventory, so you know who truly is armed, and who is not. I always kill everyone on site, naked or not, because I want to survive, I have been killed a few times by people screaming "don't kill me, I am just starting and I am friendly." You never know who is telling the truth, and that is what is so great about this game, just take that into consideration. The point is, you should be able to know if it is really safe to trust someone before they unload a mag on you or bash your skull in with a pickaxe, that is what needs to be fixed, no "bounty system" needed.
I don't think you're going to get anywhere with this idea. Read this second paragraph. This is from the official FP blog.
[IMG]http://i.imgur.com/qQCLyPT.png[/IMG]
[QUOTE=elixwhitetail;43506746]I don't think you're going to get anywhere with this idea. Read this second paragraph. This is from the official FP blog.
[IMG]http://i.imgur.com/qQCLyPT.png[/IMG][/QUOTE]
This too, of course, but I feel that there is no need to balance out the Kill-On-Site mentality, as every encounter should be a dangerous one, that's how life would be if you were trapped on an island forced to kill or be killed.
this game is good as it is now no need to change anything just be more careful and you can progress. its means your a noob.
[QUOTE=jonnymad;43506733]There should be no reason to even the odds with KoS. Sure, it's annoying, and it stops progression, but the game is not only about survival, but about true player freedom. In my opinion, what should be done is have the player model have a visible weapon strapped to them if they have one in their inventory, so you know who truly is armed, and who is not.[/QUOTE]
I REALLY LIKE THIS IDEA! Like a black bag on the back. COOL!
[editline]12th January 2014[/editline]
[QUOTE=Juzzex;43506777]this game is good as it is now no need to change anything just be more careful and you can progress. its means your a noob.[/QUOTE]
Actually, I have a pretty neat place, with metal doors and stuff. But I'm not offering a real "change", besides, how am I supposed to watch my back from a Player that can see me crouching with the "no grass" command and rapes me half a kilometer away with a M4? Little is to be done and I like the thrill, but it gets annoying when such player decides to camp resources from the 10th floor of a base (that, honestly, never happened to me, but it isn't impossible to Picture)...
Anyway, I'm asking for IDEAS... don't want to be guy with the last word.
[QUOTE=lucashc90;43506834]I REALLY LIKE THIS IDEA! Like a black bag on the back. COOL!
[/QUOTE]
Not exactly, I was kind of thinking like if you have a 9mm pistol, you would see it on them (like in a holster, perhaps,) if you have a shotgun or rifle, it is slung across your back, and whatnot. It would certainly help you figure out who is truly armed, naked or not, that way at least that portion of KoS is defeated.
[QUOTE=jonnymad;43506939]Not exactly, I was kind of thinking like if you have a 9mm pistol, you would see it on them (like in a holster, perhaps,) if you have a shotgun or rifle, it is slung across your back, and whatnot. It would certainly help you figure out who is truly armed, naked or not, that way at least that portion of KoS is defeated.[/QUOTE]
That would indeed reduce the KoS (abusing others niceness), but don't you think that it would make the player model very... can't find a word for it (imagine a player with a bow, 9mm, p250, MP, shoty and M4 equiped). The default "bag" would alert others but still offer some... privacy over your stuff? Besides, giving away exactely what weapon you have would make others want to hunt you for the loot (not a bad idea if the player is a KoSter, but I, for example, would not like to flash "HEY, I HAVE THE MOST BADASS WEAPON, FINDERS' KEEPERS" if you knw what I mean)
[QUOTE=lucashc90;43507061]That would indeed reduce the KoS (abusing others niceness), but don't you think that it would make the player model very... can't find a word for it (imagine a player with a bow, 9mm, p250, MP, shoty and M4 equiped). The default "bag" would alert others but still offer some... privacy over your stuff? Besides, giving away exactely what weapon you have would make others want to hunt you for the loot (not a bad idea if the player is a KoSter, but I, for example, would not like to flash "HEY, I HAVE THE MOST BADASS WEAPON, FINDERS' KEEPERS" if you knw what I mean)[/QUOTE]
A good point, actually. How about this: If you only have one weapon, it shows up on you, if two, both show up on you, and above that, it just shows as a bag? Either that, or only the weapons in your hotbar show (since there's only six spaces, and chances are at least one of those is a medkit and another is likely food.)
[QUOTE=jonnymad;43507082] only the weapons in your hotbar show (since there's only six spaces, and chances are at least one of those is a medkit and another is likely food.)[/QUOTE]
That would be a way to do it, but very exploitable, though...
[QUOTE=jonnymad;43507082] How about this: If you only have one weapon, it shows up on you, if two, both show up on you, and above that, it just shows as a bag[/QUOTE]
That would be good, but difficult to script right and you would require many 3D models to be implemented...
[QUOTE=lucashc90;43507107]That would be a way to do it, but very exploitable, though...[/QUOTE]
Good point, yeah, it isn't exactly the best idea.
[QUOTE]That would be good, but difficult to script right and you would require many 3D models to be implemented...[/QUOTE]
No, not exactly, you simply take the existing world models, attach them to the appropriate area of the character model, and there you have it, no extra 3d assets needed. The only thing that would need to be modeled with this setup is the black bag if you have several weapons.
As theres no sign to see if one have weapons.. ppl should think that a playet wearing kevlat or rad gear DO have weapons (I doubt they ran 10 trips in radtown killing zombies with their rock ).
but then again... to prevent some of the KoS i have a single and only one rule on my pvp server: No KoS at ALL unless raiding or in airdrop zone...
using this rule ppl was able to get up.. get resources.. build and chase zombies..
Got killed during both raid and at drop.. but it was all cool... cuz we have that rule and therefor I could gather mateials and start over again..
players on my servers have been very happy with this..
but... if there will be another way to keep some of the KoS away I will welcome it...
I just don't get how good one feels by killing fresh spawns over and over.. or shoot somone in the back trying to gather that pile of wood.. "yeah I managed to kill him cuz he didn't see me coming up behind him as he wad resiurcing.. damn I am good"....
[QUOTE=Sgt.Shadz;43507470]damn I am good"....[/QUOTE]
Heard it in Duke Nukem's voice XD
[QUOTE=elixwhitetail;43506746]I don't think you're going to get anywhere with this idea. Read this second paragraph. This is from the official FP blog.
--Snip--[/QUOTE]
Yeah, I agree, the fear is a huge thing. The only problem I have with KoS is that scaling is a bit screwed up. First person on the server? Couple days later you're unstoppable and you fear engaging [i]no one[/i].
When we have 15 people in a valley all scared shitless of each other and frail alliances, that's fun. When it's one guy decked to hell just murdering all 15 of us for our rocks 18 hours a day, that's boring.
Though as I understand it, this is being looked at.
Yeah, the game's not finished yet. It's not balanced. The tools needed to actually work through the challenges the devs want to present you with are not finished yet.
Want to deal with KOS? Make your own forum ([B]NOT[/B] the Facepunch forums -- set up [B]your own[/B]) for your server and have a Hall of Shame with video evidence/etc. of KOSers. Any KOSers get banned or put on the server most-wanted, and anyone's allowed to kill them (i.e. they are outlaws).
Don't make the game force a choice on the rest of the community. And accept that the game is very unfinished yet, and balance is by and large a to-do list entry for the future.
[QUOTE=lucashc90;43507667]Heard it in Duke Nukem's voice XD[/QUOTE]
lol U cought the reference hehe :D
[QUOTE=jonnymad;43506733]There should be no reason to even the odds with KoS. Sure, it's annoying, and it stops progression, but the game is not only about survival, but about true player freedom. In my opinion, what should be done is have the player model have a visible weapon strapped to them if they have one in their inventory, so you know who truly is armed, and who is not. I always kill everyone on site, naked or not, because I want to survive, I have been killed a few times by people screaming "don't kill me, I am just starting and I am friendly." You never know who is telling the truth, and that is what is so great about this game, just take that into consideration. The point is, you should be able to know if it is really safe to trust someone before they unload a mag on you or bash your skull in with a pickaxe, that is what needs to be fixed, no "bounty system" needed.[/QUOTE]
They need to make the view distance for names as far as engagement is possible. The game is tipped in favor of KoS people. They shoot anything that moves and don't care who's against them. I can't do that, or else I'd have my neighbors coming after me because there's no easy way to determine who is who. The game is in favor of people who kill everyone they see. It's ridiculous sometimes.
[QUOTE=elixwhitetail;43506746]I don't think you're going to get anywhere with this idea. Read this second paragraph. This is from the official FP blog.
[IMG]http://i.imgur.com/qQCLyPT.png[/IMG][/QUOTE]
This isn't a situation of "oh, you need to be wary" it's a deathmatch where you don't spawn with the guns you need to keep fighting.
[QUOTE=ShorterName;43508110]This isn't a situation of "oh, you need to be wary" it's a deathmatch where you don't spawn with the guns you need to keep fighting.[/QUOTE]
The solution is not to make a [I]different[/I] game made out of bandaids while Rust isn't finished. You're just going to have to put up with unbalanced gameplay and inconveniences. Welcome to alpha.
If you don't like it, stop playing Rust for a couple months and come back and see how it's doing. Seriously. The game isn't finished.
Word gets out on the server that "Player X" kills everyone he sees. The other players on the server begin to watch out for that player. Eventually, people get fed up with it and place a KOS on the guy. People begin to hunt him down to prevent what he has been doing. There's your bounty.
[QUOTE=elixwhitetail;43508126]The solution is not to make a [I]different[/I] game made out of bandaids while Rust isn't finished. You're just going to have to put up with unbalanced gameplay and inconveniences. Welcome to alpha.
If you don't like it, stop playing Rust for a couple months and come back and see how it's doing. Seriously. The game isn't finished.[/QUOTE]
You can't patch a community. The devs are good, but they aren't magic.
I'm going to keep playing and giving KoS players shit and they'll just have to adjust like I have.
Concerning the point of the bounty system: Wouldn't you need to KoS the KoSer in order to collect the bounty...and if you make it a goal of hunting down the bounties...wouldn't that put you up the KoS list? Your suggestions is fundamentally flawed, ill-suited to the theme of the game, and the desired effect you are looking for can be accomlished through simpler means.
Concerning newbs getting farmed: If they are literally getting farmed that much, there is something wrong with their gameplay, not the game. It isn't always "Rich getting richer and poor getting poorer" but many times I hear stories better described as "The ruthless getting richer and the survival-challenged failing to learn from their mistakes."
I completely agree that names rendering at a further distance and weapons being made visible when they are in your inventory would adhere to the themes of the game and also reduce the unintentional kills from happening. The distance that I can see a person and the distance I can see their name is what is disproportionately imbalanced here.
As far as bounties go, there isn't anything preventing you from offering up a reward for the player who provides proof of them killing Mr. -insert bandit's name here-. But then there isn't anything preventing the bandit from stripping down to nothing, letting a friend off him with proof so that they can share that reward....
Actually guys this isn't necessary at all. If you see a guy wearing leather armor he probably has a gun and most guys with guns typically intend to kill you. I think the bounty system is unnecessary. However the weapons being strapped onto player models would eliminate players from running around naked to avoid being targeted as a threat. However I think that would actually limit the players freedom.
Just find the right server.
On the low pop server I play on, if I run into a new player I point my laser sight at his head, if he chooses to engage in hostilities I have no problem blasting him.
If he's friendly even with a laser sight pointed at his head I will toss some stuff on the ground and back up slowly.
That doesn't mean I will hesitate to shoot him in the head in the future if he tries to "take" resources I'm working on or is in my farming path.
It's amazing how "friendly" people become when they have a shotgun pointed at their face.
I'm also extremely tactical and always farm at the edges, using my rifle to scope out the area before I get to work.
People just need to be a bit more aware of their surroundings and pick a server not overrun with hackers.
prolonged KoS thingy~ how about just learn what PvP stands for. Rust is already great, dont need any other modification on player perspective etc.
I always play with my buddies ( 20 of us ), get into new server, make a lot of stuff, 100 c4 minimum, go raid the whole server and then left the server. And guess what? people moved on already when we get back to any previous server. Most of them said " It's just a game" "Can I join you guys?" "Oh shit it's them again, hide your wife hide your kids :v: " etc.
[QUOTE=ChargedOracal;43512884]Actually guys this isn't necessary at all. If you see a guy wearing leather armor he probably has a gun and most guys with guns typically intend to kill you. I think the bounty system is unnecessary. However the weapons being strapped onto player models would eliminate players from running around naked to avoid being targeted as a threat. However I think that would actually limit the players freedom.[/QUOTE]
It is safe to bet that the guy running around wearing leather has a gun. But it is foolish to assume that the guy running around in kevlar doesn't have a gun, or the guy in the rad gear, or the guy in cloth, or even that guy wearing nothing. Safest bet is to assume everyone has a gun. It is also a safe bet to assume everyone who has a gun is going to kill you. Even if you're wrong, avoiding people with guns won't get you killed.
And I'm interested in how your logic explains that running around with your weapon visible limits player freedom. By that same standard, should we also make all armor look the same so that it is impossible to tell what kind of armor a person is wearing?
[editline]12th January 2014[/editline]
[QUOTE=anazhd;43513124]prolonged KoS thingy~ how about just learn what PvP stands for. Rust is already great, dont need any other modification on player perspective etc.
I always play with my buddies ( 20 of us ), get into new server, make a lot of stuff, 100 c4 minimum, go raid the whole server and then left the server. And guess what? people moved on already when we get back to any previous server. Most of them said " It's just a game" "Can I join you guys?" "Oh shit it's them again, hide your wife hide your kids :v: " etc.[/QUOTE]
I'm sure you were trying to make a point...but dat avatar....
[QUOTE=lucashc90;43506490]As someone stated, the heart of the game is the fear and survival... however, as someone else also stated, fresh started players keeps being blocked to progress as they are constantly killed on sight without warning, thus eventually moving on from the game for hours of time and resources lost without penalty to the KoS player (really, it's even better to be a KoS if you think, like a farm: the KoS is the farmer, newbies are the cattle).
People will say that I'm whinning, but think of it: better bases, better resources (you don't even need to gather then, just kill naked guys on sight), plus, if you get wiped clean, you still have all your blueprints (that newbies will never get if they constantly loses their bows or hatchets and don't have materials to do some more). KoS gives really good advantages!
I despise KoS. I helped countless people just to be backstabbed and be laugh at on the mic. These kills don't bother me and I pretend to never go KoS, what irritates me (us) is a player that camps Rad Town just to take out and steal players that actually scavenge stuff. So, to even that, I have a sugestion!
Anyone played All Points Bulletin? You can place a bounty on a player. Come on, its a survivor FPS, someone could warm other in real life, why not in this game?
My idea is: the players with the highest PvP scores could have their name more visible than the others (help people run or drag Hunters towards him), and killing him (only if he is killed by another player) could could give the Hunter some kind of reward (untradable reward, as parties would only kill themselves for the reward and all would be cool). The bounty would be removed upon death or after a cooldown... WHADDYA THINK?
Anyone have any other idea?[/QUOTE]
I disagree. Once you learn the ropes in a pve server (if you want), or tuff it out in a normal server, it all becomes quite easy. Start in a sever that just got wiped, stay away from everyone at first, collect, build and defend. After a day or two, you have enough loot that if you get KOS'ed you won't mind as much. But to be honest, you'll always be KOS'ed in pvp servers. So if it's too much then go pve or play something else.
Also, in APB or APB:R you can't place a bounty on anyone. That happens to people who bring their notoriety or prestige up by killing enemies..
Sorry, you need to Log In to post a reply to this thread.
