Dear All,
Im a player with more than 750 hours of Rust. I've used to play more in legacy, but as many others, I quit many times playing Rust, uninstalled, reinstalled and so on. It shouldn't be that way.
The big issue with Rust always was the Hackers, and now recently the abusers. Currently, the game forces you to work in gangs (and be a no-life), or else you'll never get the real loot.
And I will not even waste my time hearing the opinions of those who read this thread, because most of them are those 'no-life'. Any real poll should be made with those who STOPPED playing Rust, not those who are currently playing.
There is about 3 servers online for each player. Lots of empty servers. What does it means? That many people love so much this game, but prefer to create their own server instead of being abused in the servers of others.
Well, let me stop crying and be constructive here:
1- Loot should be equal in terms of QUALITY (gun BP, etc) in all lootable itens (barrels, etc). That would stop the "city walling" abuse, and make the game fair for every one;
2- Air drops should be made with 3 or more planes at the same time. 2 of them would "crash" (disappear) upon landing, and only one would land intact. That would create more chances to every one, instead of a 24 hours no-life gang;
3- Loot from air drops and cities should have only more QUANTITY than loot from barrels. But same quality.
4- Roads to cities and landmarks should be prohibited from BUILDING. And the radius of building prohibition augmented. With that, it would render useless the efforts of the clans to break the game for all others.
Currently, the whole game is about 10 or 20 players (generally no-life kids) rushing to wall or defend a landmark or town in the first days, while hundreds of "normal" users are made easy prey and idiots for months.
Garry, we love your game. Please, make it fun for EVERYONE !
I don't know, part of the fun for me is having my base raided and having to rebuild. I have absolutely no qualms raiding anyone else who leaves a weak point, why should I complain when I make the mistake of doing it myself? I appreciate what you're saying regarding the air drops, it can be frustrating when the same kids on a server are there 24/7, they have all the weapons and if you don't have one you have a very slim chance of getting one, but I think it's all chance really. My solution to that has been to set up small bases with sleeping bags in all areas of the map, so that if an airdrop is coming down in an area I have a base I can quickly get myself killed and spawn there to have a chance of getting it.
With regards to people walling off rad towns... well if you're letting that happen then you're as much at fault for not stopping them. It's easily done.
it is IMPOSSIBLE to make something FUN for every one. There is always gonna be someone who will be the negative nancy, you haven't seen the looks i get when i say i don't like cheese or coffee!
[QUOTE=GrymThor;47242399]i don't like cheese or coffee![/QUOTE]
WHAT?!!! :suicide:
on topic, i agree that loot should be available from every spawn type (ie barrels, and each type of crate). i also think that perhaps the % chance for higher tier items should be greater for crates than barrels. you are less likely to find an ak in a barrel, but if there is a weapon crate in a rad town, its pretty certain you may find a gun of sorts.
[QUOTE=deputydawg;47242273]I don't know, part of the fun for me is having my base raided and having to rebuild. I have absolutely no qualms raiding anyone else who leaves a weak point, why should I complain when I make the mistake of doing it myself? I appreciate what you're saying regarding the air drops, it can be frustrating when the same kids on a server are there 24/7, they have all the weapons and if you don't have one you have a very slim chance of getting one, but I think it's all chance really. My solution to that has been to set up small bases with sleeping bags in all areas of the map, so that if an airdrop is coming down in an area I have a base I can quickly get myself killed and spawn there to have a chance of getting it.
With regards to people walling off rad towns... well if you're letting that happen then you're as much at fault for not stopping them. It's easily done.[/QUOTE]
"If you are letting that happen".
Question is that this SHOULDN'T happen. Again, if you are not at the server at the first hours of after the wipe, the kids would have it walled already.
So let me understand your point of view... What you are saying is that I should stop working and stay camping 24 hours/day to make the kids stop building around towns? Is that so?
Take a look at every official server. The game is broken there for everyone who wasn't there at ZERO time after wipe.
No game will ever be balanced, but imagine Battefield 4, with a clan having acess to all guns and the others only with knife.
So, the game was designed for all or a bunch of no-life kids?
[QUOTE=DoctorMort;47242246]Dear All,
Im a player with more than 750 hours of Rust. I've used to play more in legacy, but as many others, I quit many times playing Rust, uninstalled, reinstalled and so on. It shouldn't be that way.
The big issue with Rust always was the Hackers, and now recently the abusers. Currently, the game forces you to work in gangs (and be a no-life), or else you'll never get the real loot.
And I will not even waste my time hearing the opinions of those who read this thread, because most of them are those 'no-life'. Any real poll should be made with those who STOPPED playing Rust, not those who are currently playing.
There is about 3 servers online for each player. Lots of empty servers. What does it means? That many people love so much this game, but prefer to create their own server instead of being abused in the servers of others.
Well, let me stop crying and be constructive here:
1- Loot should be equal in terms of QUALITY (gun BP, etc) in all lootable itens (barrels, etc). That would stop the "city walling" abuse, and make the game fair for every one;
2- Air drops should be made with 3 or more planes at the same time. 2 of them would "crash" (disappear) upon landing, and only one would land intact. That would create more chances to every one, instead of a 24 hours no-life gang;
3- Loot from air drops and cities should have only more QUANTITY than loot from barrels. But same quality.
4- Roads to cities and landmarks should be prohibited from BUILDING. And the radius of building prohibition augmented. With that, it would render useless the efforts of the clans to break the game for all others.
Currently, the whole game is about 10 or 20 players (generally no-life kids) rushing to wall or defend a landmark or town in the first days, while hundreds of "normal" users are made easy prey and idiots for months.
Garry, we love your game. Please, make it fun for EVERYONE ![/QUOTE]
There are not many hackers as in the legacy, its actually pretty rare to find one.
Abusers wont exist if there are no bugs to be abused, this is not a free to play game and bugs are nowhere near players responsability.
If u dont wanna hear answers no point posting into a forum at all, rust is a game where u need to play everyday constantly to achieve something big, that aint gonan change, if u cant play rust constantly, thats not the game ur looking for.
Pretty sure that the city walling is gonna get fixed soon.
Now airdrops cannot be camped by big armed groups as easy as it was, since the fall time greatly diminuished.
Big servers have around 100 players on.
[QUOTE=GrymThor;47242399] i don't like cheese or coffee![/QUOTE]
Whoa, you don't like cheese or coffee?
I know how you feel. I get the same looks when I say I don't like squash, eggplant or liver :)
[QUOTE=DoctorMort;47242246]Dear All,
Im a player with more than 750 hours of Rust. I've used to play more in legacy, but as many others, I quit many times playing Rust, uninstalled, reinstalled and so on. It shouldn't be that way.
The big issue with Rust always was the Hackers, and now recently the abusers. Currently, the game forces you to work in gangs (and be a no-life), or else you'll never get the real loot.
And I will not even waste my time hearing the opinions of those who read this thread, because most of them are those 'no-life'. Any real poll should be made with those who STOPPED playing Rust, not those who are currently playing.
There is about 3 servers online for each player. Lots of empty servers. What does it means? That many people love so much this game, but prefer to create their own server instead of being abused in the servers of others.
Well, let me stop crying and be constructive here:
1- Loot should be equal in terms of QUALITY (gun BP, etc) in all lootable itens (barrels, etc). That would stop the "city walling" abuse, and make the game fair for every one;
2- Air drops should be made with 3 or more planes at the same time. 2 of them would "crash" (disappear) upon landing, and only one would land intact. That would create more chances to every one, instead of a 24 hours no-life gang;
3- Loot from air drops and cities should have only more QUANTITY than loot from barrels. But same quality.
4- Roads to cities and landmarks should be prohibited from BUILDING. And the radius of building prohibition augmented. With that, it would render useless the efforts of the clans to break the game for all others.
Currently, the whole game is about 10 or 20 players (generally no-life kids) rushing to wall or defend a landmark or town in the first days, while hundreds of "normal" users are made easy prey and idiots for months.
Garry, we love your game. Please, make it fun for EVERYONE ![/QUOTE]
Why post if you don't want to hear the opinions of people who read them? I don't want any poll from people who quit Rust, they obviously didn't care enough to keep playing. Maybe you'd be more satisfied with a poll from people who never even played Rust instead?
[editline]2nd March 2015[/editline]
[QUOTE=Morghoth2;47242659]There are not many hackers as in the legacy, its actually pretty rare to find one.
Abusers wont exist if there are no bugs to be abused, this is not a free to play game and bugs are nowhere near players responsability.
If u dont wanna hear answers no point posting into a forum at all, rust is a game where u need to play everyday constantly to achieve something big, that aint gonan change, if u cant play rust constantly, thats not the game ur looking for.
Pretty sure that the city walling is gonna get fixed soon.
Now airdrops cannot be camped by big armed groups as easy as it was, since the fall time greatly diminuished.
Big servers have around 100 players on.[/QUOTE]
I have been able to grab an airdrop nearly everyday I have played in the last week by myself, so I would have to agree with you there. Some are highly contested where its a firefight but many more now are a chance drop that comes with a little danger. I play on Seattle, where there is usually 80-120 people on at any one time.
[QUOTE=Insub;47243789]Why post if you don't want to hear the opinions of people who read them? I don't want any poll from people who quit Rust, they obviously didn't care enough to keep playing. Maybe you'd be more satisfied with a poll from people who never even played Rust instead?
[editline]2nd March 2015[/editline]
I have been able to grab an airdrop nearly everyday I have played in the last week by myself, so I would have to agree with you there. Some are highly contested where its a firefight but many more now are a chance drop that comes with a little danger. I play on Seattle, where there is usually 80-120 people on at any one time.[/QUOTE]
First of all, I checked 1 minute ago, and there is 27000 players in LEGACY, and less then 800 in Experimental. This is a clear signal that something is wrong.
The reason by which you should listen to those who gave up is to be humble enough to be open to criticism. Real criticism. You will never get better by hearing only people that agree with you.
As about this post not being intended to forum users, is that I have the hope (irrealistic?) that Garry read some posts from time to time here. So this post is for him only. To open his eyes.
And if 27000 x 800 is not enough... I dont know what would be.
[editline]2nd March 2015[/editline]
[QUOTE=Insub;47243789]Why post if you don't want to hear the opinions of people who read them? I don't want any poll from people who quit Rust, they obviously didn't care enough to keep playing. Maybe you'd be more satisfied with a poll from people who never even played Rust instead?
[editline]2nd March 2015[/editline]
I have been able to grab an airdrop nearly everyday I have played in the last week by myself, so I would have to agree with you there. Some are highly contested where its a firefight but many more now are a chance drop that comes with a little danger. I play on Seattle, where there is usually 80-120 people on at any one time.[/QUOTE]
Second point, if you have a criticism, lets talk then about what is OBJECTIVE. My ideas:
1- Loot should be equal in terms of QUALITY (gun BP, etc) in all lootable itens (barrels, etc). That would stop the "city walling" abuse, and make the game fair for every one;
2- Air drops should be made with 3 or more planes at the same time. 2 of them would "crash" (disappear) upon landing, and only one would land intact. That would create more chances to every one, instead of a 24 hours no-life gang;
3- Loot from air drops and cities should have only more QUANTITY than loot from barrels. But same quality.
4- Roads to cities and landmarks should be prohibited from BUILDING. And the radius of building prohibition augmented. With that, it would render useless the efforts of the clans to break the game for all others.
[QUOTE=DoctorMort;47244925]First of all, I checked 1 minute ago, and there is 27000 players in LEGACY, and less then 800 in Experimental. This is a clear signal that something is wrong.
The reason by which you should listen to those who gave up is to be humble enough to be open to criticism. Real criticism. You will never get better by hearing only people that agree with you.
As about this post not being intended to forum users, is that I have the hope (irrealistic?) that Garry read some posts from time to time here. So this post is for him only. To open his eyes.
And if 27000 x 800 is not enough... I dont know what would be.[/QUOTE]
That is odd because I just checked [url]http://steamcharts.com/app/252490#6m[/url] and there are only 9,747
playing 3 min ago, 6 minutes after you posted. That is 18,053 less players than you claim are playing.
Where are you getting your numbers?
Here are numbers directly from garry 3 weeks ago...
[url]http://facepunch.com/showthread.php?t=1449727&p=47076311#post47076311[/url]
[QUOTE=garry;47076311]Total Players:
[img]http://files.facepunch.com/garry/2015/February/04/2015-02-04_22-27-43.png[/img]
Total On New Version:
[img]http://files.facepunch.com/garry/2015/February/04/2015-02-04_22-29-30.png[/img]
We don't keep stats on legacy - but I guess you can work it out by subtracting. I dunno how accurate any of these stats are tho.
I don't know how reliable the stats from the server crawling sites are because of the fake player counts.[/QUOTE]
It clearly shows that of the 9792, 2755 were playing legacy and 7037 were playing the new version.
[QUOTE=DoctorMort;47244925]First of all, I checked 1 minute ago, and there is 27000 players in LEGACY, and less then 800 in Experimental.[/QUOTE]
Some hacker infested countries have bigger populations that others. This may speak more to the prevalent hacker community than it does of true honest Rust users (yes some do exist).
Just speculation of course...
[QUOTE=utilitron;47245040]That is odd because I just checked [url]http://steamcharts.com/app/252490#6m[/url] and there are only 9,747
playing 3 min ago, 6 minutes after you posted. That is 18,053 less players than you claim are playing.
Where are you getting your numbers?
Here are numbers directly from garry 3 weeks ago...
[url]http://facepunch.com/showthread.php?t=1449727&p=47076311#post47076311[/url]
It clearly shows that of the 9792, 2755 were playing legacy and 7037 were playing the new version.[/QUOTE]
Again, stop questioning what is NOT vital in my critic.
Second, I checked it directly from the RUST internal browser. And the data is consistent with the number of users inside any legacy server checked. And if you browse NOW or at any time, and filter by number of player, you'll see that legacy have more players any time of the day.
BUT, much more important, the ideas in debate are:
1- Loot should be equal in terms of QUALITY (gun BP, etc) in all lootable itens (barrels, etc). That would stop the "city walling" abuse, and make the game fair for every one;
2- Air drops should be made with 3 or more planes at the same time. 2 of them would "crash" (disappear) upon landing, and only one would land intact. That would create more chances to every one, instead of a 24 hours no-life gang;
3- Loot from air drops and cities should have only more QUANTITY than loot from barrels. But same quality.
4- Roads to cities and landmarks should be prohibited from BUILDING. And the radius of building prohibition augmented. With that, it would render useless the efforts of the clans to break the game for all others.
RIGHT now, this is a game made for a few kid clans. And everyone else is simply a dumb target that wastes his time. Shouldn't be that way.
And if anyone defend the current loot system (better or exclusive loot only in towns and landmarks) it is possible because such person is part of such clans.
Sincerely, even for such clans that is really stupid, as a lot of people will cease to play as soon they realize the game is made only for the kid clans and that they haven't any fair chance.
[editline]2nd March 2015[/editline]
[QUOTE=spiritchill;47245056]Some hacker infested countries have bigger populations that others. This may speak more to the prevalent hacker community than it does of true honest Rust users (yes some do exist).
Just speculation of course...[/QUOTE]
Well, if people prefer to play in a "hacker infested" legacy game instead of a new version... Well, doesn't it ring any bells?
I have to admit also that I LOVE this game so much! I devoted almost 800 hours in it. It would have being much more, if I didn't quit playing so many times. It really is something to bring tears to the eyes of people like me, who ever dreamed about a game with this concept, to see it broke due such little points...
[QUOTE=DoctorMort;47245183]Again, stop questioning what is NOT vital in my critic.
Second, I checked it directly from the RUST internal browser. And the data is consistent with the number of users inside any legacy server checked. And if you browse NOW or at any time, and filter by number of player, you'll see that legacy have more players any time of the day.[/QUOTE]
That just isn't true, and it hasn't been true for a while.
bla bla bla friggin bla cry me a river switch servers then doc
[QUOTE=DoctorMort;47245183]Again, stop questioning what is NOT vital in my critic.
Second, I checked it directly from the RUST internal browser. And the data is consistent with the number of users inside any legacy server checked. And if you browse NOW or at any time, and filter by number of player, you'll see that legacy have more players any time of the day.[/QUOTE]
it's valid to your argument because you are using it to support your opinion that the devs are doing the wrong thing. and it's subjective opinion, not fact, because the stats you are supplying are not reliable given the number of servers that spoof their player counts, and clone ips; on top of that, there are plenty of stats from other reputable sources that dispute those results. so for now, lets just agree that while legacy has a following of players that feel that experimental is not (yet) of the standard of legacy, there is also a following of players in experimental that feel that it is coming along nicely.
[QUOTE=mrknifey;47247128]it's valid to your argument because you are using it to support your opinion that the devs are doing the wrong thing. and it's subjective opinion, not fact, because the stats you are supplying are not reliable given the number of servers that spoof their player counts, and clone ips; on top of that, there are plenty of stats from other reputable sources that dispute those results. so for now, lets just agree that while legacy has a following of players that feel that experimental is not (yet) of the standard of legacy, there is also a following of players in experimental that feel that it is coming along nicely.[/QUOTE]
Again, the ideas in debate are:
1- Loot should be equal in terms of QUALITY (gun BP, etc) in all lootable itens (barrels, etc). That would stop the "city walling" abuse, and make the game fair for every one;
2- Air drops should be made with 3 or more planes at the same time. 2 of them would "crash" (disappear) upon landing, and only one would land intact. That would create more chances to every one, instead of a 24 hours no-life gang;
3- Loot from air drops and cities should have only more QUANTITY than loot from barrels. But same quality.
4- Roads to cities and landmarks should be prohibited from BUILDING. And the radius of building prohibition augmented. With that, it would render useless the efforts of the clans to break the game for all others.
[QUOTE=DoctorMort;47249113]1- Loot should be equal in terms of QUALITY (gun BP, etc) in all lootable itens (barrels, etc). That would stop the "city walling" abuse, and make the game fair for every one;[/QUOTE]
Sorry, but this I have to disagree with. Sounds too much like an "I want what everyone else has" sense of entitlement to me. The key to balance in ANY game is risk vs reward. Those who are willing to work on their progression, get their equipment, etc deserve better stuff than a naked who just spawned in. Currently on a high pop server, this is near impossible due to factions controlling rad sites walling them in. Balance is needed, but it's needed in other areas of game play, not the rad town loot tables (although they do need some balancing).
Why should a fresh newman have access to the same loot that people who have been playing for a while have? Do you go into the high level instances in WoW when not equipped? Do you head out to 0.0 space anomalies in a noob ship in Eve Online? Do you hit hard mode flashpoints in SWTOR when you don't have the gear? No. In each of those cases, you'll die. It should be no different here.
I think rad sites in general should be extremely difficult to raid and have the potential of higher value rewards to justify the risk. Seriously, if you can get top tier weapons and BPs from random loot barrels, then what's the point of even going into a rad site or going after air drops? What's the incentive to travel to potentially dangerous rad sites when you could go on a "safe" barrel hunt in the desert, get the same loot with inherently less risk involved?
IMO Rad sites should be reserved for those that have put the time and effort to find the hazmat suit (the more hazmat gear you're wearing, the more shielded you are against radiation and the longer you can stay in the site) and have anti-rad pills (can get from loot barrels or air drops). The centre of rad sites should have the highest radiation level and have loot containers that spawn the highest value loot. These containers should be accessible only to those who have the proper gear.
As a naked, the best you should be able to get from a rad site without dying is the barrels outside the small rad house.
[QUOTE=DoctorMort;47249113]2- Air drops should be made with 3 or more planes at the same time. 2 of them would "crash" (disappear) upon landing, and only one would land intact. That would create more chances to every one, instead of a 24 hours no-life gang; [/QUOTE]
Not necessarily a bad idea. But that said, there's nothing from stopping the "24 Hour No Life Gang" (aka - someone better organized) from splitting off and going for all 3 drops. at once.
[QUOTE=DoctorMort;47249113]3- Loot from air drops and cities should have only more QUANTITY than loot from barrels. But same quality.[/QUOTE]
Again, disagree. Why should you be rewarded with potentially a higher quantity burlap pants, sleeping bags and stone spears for racing your ass halfway across the map risking being killed by wildlife or other players? Airdrops shouldn't always be a cache of AKs and Thompsons, but they should have higher end loot than what you can't get from barrels, and preferably different than what you can get in rad sites.
[QUOTE=DoctorMort;47249113]
4- Roads to cities and landmarks should be prohibited from BUILDING. And the radius of building prohibition augmented. With that, it would render useless the efforts of the clans to break the game for all others.[/QUOTE]
This I'm in agreement with. I don't think anyone should be able to wall off any landmark that spawns loot. If they want to wall off a site that doesn't (the sphere, hangars or dish), then fill your boots. Build a base around them. But sites that spawn loot containers should be a no-build zone.
[QUOTE=Crunchmeister;47249775]Sorry, but this I have to disagree with. Sounds too much like an "I want what everyone else has" sense of entitlement to me. The key to balance in ANY game is risk vs reward. Those who are willing to work on their progression, get their equipment, etc deserve better stuff than a naked who just spawned in. Currently on a high pop server, this is near impossible due to factions controlling rad sites walling them in. Balance is needed, but it's needed in other areas of game play, not the rad town loot tables (although they do need some balancing).
Why should a fresh newman have access to the same loot that people who have been playing for a while have? Do you go into the high level instances in WoW when not equipped? Do you head out to 0.0 space anomalies in a noob ship in Eve Online? Do you hit hard mode flashpoints in SWTOR when you don't have the gear? No. In each of those cases, you'll die. It should be no different here.
I think rad sites in general should be extremely difficult to raid and have the potential of higher value rewards to justify the risk. Seriously, if you can get top tier weapons and BPs from random loot barrels, then what's the point of even going into a rad site or going after air drops? What's the incentive to travel to potentially dangerous rad sites when you could go on a "safe" barrel hunt in the desert, get the same loot with inherently less risk involved?
IMO Rad sites should be reserved for those that have put the time and effort to find the hazmat suit (the more hazmat gear you're wearing, the more shielded you are against radiation and the longer you can stay in the site) and have anti-rad pills (can get from loot barrels or air drops). The centre of rad sites should have the highest radiation level and have loot containers that spawn the highest value loot. These containers should be accessible only to those who have the proper gear.
As a naked, the best you should be able to get from a rad site without dying is the barrels outside the small rad house.
Not necessarily a bad idea. But that said, there's nothing from stopping the "24 Hour No Life Gang" (aka - someone better organized) from splitting off and going for all 3 drops. at once.
Again, disagree. Why should you be rewarded with potentially a higher quantity burlap pants, sleeping bags and stone spears for racing your ass halfway across the map risking being killed by wildlife or other players? Airdrops shouldn't always be a cache of AKs and Thompsons, but they should have higher end loot than what you can't get from barrels, and preferably different than what you can get in rad sites.
This I'm in agreement with. I don't think anyone should be able to wall off any landmark that spawns loot. If they want to wall off a site that doesn't (the sphere, hangars or dish), then fill your boots. Build a base around them. But sites that spawn loot containers should be a no-build zone.[/QUOTE]
Well thank you. The first adult analysis made about my ideas. I hope other could contribute also with this thread.
Let me criticize your critic.
1- I play Eve online for 10 years, and I have 12 chars there. In eve online you can really go to 0.0 yes sir, as a freshman. Since you train correctly to fly a frigate. You don't go there 'naked'... My point is that if you don't allow a thompson BP with 60 bullets to be found in a barrel, you could make a Thompson gun with 10 bullets be found. Less quantity, but not quality. Or, at least a pistol. But SOME KIND of effective gun. The way the Experimental is, would be equal to fighting a gang of cruisers with a capsule.
1.1- The whole idea is that people who start first in a server will always have an edge, no matter what. It shouldn't be that way. I agree that C4 and explosives shouldn't be in barrels, but up to thompsons, it would really create a bigger challenge for everyone. I believe that "optics", "lasers" and gun upgrades should really be a high end. But "upgrades". In other words, having access to towns should give you a BETTER chance of victory, not a CERTAINTY of victory against all.
2. About the 3 planes idea, well it won't stop 24 hour gangs, but certainly would create more opportunities.
3. Except for c4 and explosives, I still believe that a better balancing would benefit all. More challenge to veteran players, and more excitement for newcomers to the server.
4. Well, at least we agree in some point.
The main point is, the game cannot look "broken" or meaningless for newcomers of any server. Again, I insist in the BF4 comparison or even Counter Strike. If you are new, for sure you'll be in disadvantage, since you got less skill, and less gun equipment (lasers, optics, etc), but YOU'll HAVE a gun. And given the conditions, you'll even have the chance to kill an opponent who have a better gun. This keeps the game COMPETITIVE and challenging for everyone. And fun.
The way Experimental is, its much a very predictable game of trolling nakeds until they leave the server or give up the game.
TBH the only thing i hate right now is that rad towns shouldnt be allowed to be walled.. starting from 0 without guns and shit is viable.. one just need to know how to hide proprerly and stalk enemys.. i do play alone.. i enjoy it.. and i can tell i have a fair safe house with alot of stuff.. it is more challenging but not less fun :D
[QUOTE=DoctorMort;47250363]Well thank you. The first adult analysis made about my ideas. I hope other could contribute also with this thread.
Let me criticize your critic.
1- I play Eve online for 10 years, and I have 12 chars there. In eve online you can really go to 0.0 yes sir, as a freshman. Since you train correctly to fly a frigate. You don't go there 'naked'... My point is that if you don't allow a thompson BP with 60 bullets to be found in a barrel, you could make a Thompson gun with 10 bullets be found. Less quantity, but not quality. Or, at least a pistol. But SOME KIND of effective gun. The way the Experimental is, would be equal to fighting a gang of cruisers with a capsule.
1.1- The whole idea is that people who start first in a server will always have an edge, no matter what. It shouldn't be that way. I agree that C4 and explosives shouldn't be in barrels, but up to thompsons, it would really create a bigger challenge for everyone. I believe that "optics", "lasers" and gun upgrades should really be a high end. But "upgrades". In other words, having access to towns should give you a BETTER chance of victory, not a CERTAINTY of victory against all.
2. About the 3 planes idea, well it won't stop 24 hour gangs, but certainly would create more opportunities.
3. Except for c4 and explosives, I still believe that a better balancing would benefit all. More challenge to veteran players, and more excitement for newcomers to the server.
4. Well, at least we agree in some point.
The main point is, the game cannot look "broken" or meaningless for newcomers of any server. Again, I insist in the BF4 comparison or even Counter Strike. If you are new, for sure you'll be in disadvantage, since you got less skill, and less gun equipment (lasers, optics, etc), but YOU'll HAVE a gun. And given the conditions, you'll even have the chance to kill an opponent who have a better gun. This keeps the game COMPETITIVE and challenging for everyone. And fun.
The way Experimental is, its much a very predictable game of trolling nakeds until they leave the server or give up the game.[/QUOTE]
1. I played Eve for almost 5 years, and 4 of those were in sov holding alliances like Razor, Brick Squad, AAA, THORN Alliance and Black Legion. Yes, you can go to 0.0 as a fresh noob, but there's very little content there available to you outside of PVP and mining. As a reasonably skilled T3 cruiser pilot, you can hit up sanctums and havens solo and grind them to your heart's content while making tons of ISK and the chance at good loot drops along the way. A noob in a frigate will land in a sanctum and be in his pod before he can even shoot down 1 rat frigate. Even the belt rats will tear a noob a new one in seconds. You don't have access to the good income streams or good loot until you're skilled enough to fly a good ship. Same in any game. This is about making people work for the good stuff, not handing it to them in a loot lottery. Those that take the bigger risks and invest the time and equipment required should get the bigger rewards.
1-1. I'm not saying anything should be a guarantee. The rate at which top tier BPs drop should still be limited and somewhat random. Just saying they should only be available in places where you need to be geared out in order to get them. Just like the rare spawns in anomalies in Eve that will net you the BPs for pirate faction gear. They're not there every time, but they're only available in these high end anomalies.
2. Agreed. 3 planes would certainly be more opportunity. Doesn't fix the problem by any means, but it would randomize it a bit more and give more people a chance.
3. To bring out the Eve analogy again, it's the same there. People who have been playing for years have a definitive advantage over noobs. How many times have you heard the "NERF SUPERCAPS!!!" cries from a small, newer alliance that just got razed by the likes of Pandemic Legion or Goons?
[QUOTE=Crunchmeister;47250819]1. I played Eve for almost 5 years, and 4 of those were in sov holding alliances like Razor, Brick Squad, AAA, THORN Alliance and Black Legion. Yes, you can go to 0.0 as a fresh noob, but there's very little content there available to you outside of PVP and mining. As a reasonably skilled T3 cruiser pilot, you can hit up sanctums and havens solo and grind them to your heart's content while making tons of ISK and the chance at good loot drops along the way. A noob in a frigate will land in a sanctum and be in his pod before he can even shoot down 1 rat frigate. Even the belt rats will tear a noob a new one in seconds. You don't have access to the good income streams or good loot until you're skilled enough to fly a good ship. Same in any game. This is about making people work for the good stuff, not handing it to them in a loot lottery. Those that take the bigger risks and invest the time and equipment required should get the bigger rewards.
1-1. I'm not saying anything should be a guarantee. The rate at which top tier BPs drop should still be limited and somewhat random. Just saying they should only be available in places where you need to be geared out in order to get them. Just like the rare spawns in anomalies in Eve that will net you the BPs for pirate faction gear. They're not there every time, but they're only available in these high end anomalies.
2. Agreed. 3 planes would certainly be more opportunity. Doesn't fix the problem by any means, but it would randomize it a bit more and give more people a chance.
3. To bring out the Eve analogy again, it's the same there. People who have been playing for years have a definitive advantage over noobs. How many times have you heard the "NERF SUPERCAPS!!!" cries from a small, newer alliance that just got razed by the likes of Pandemic Legion or Goons?[/QUOTE]
I guess that a better approach would be giving the server owners the possibility to set their servers for "Balanced" or "Hardcore". Just like in BF4 also.
Therefore, those who want face "thomy guns gangs" naked with a knife, would be able to enjoy "hardcore", and those willing a less painful experience would be able to enter a "balanced" game. A "hardcore" server could even have more aggressive animals.
And let's face it. EVE is terrible for newcomers. Rust could have more possibilities, and for all types. I believe that, with time, a newcomer will even enjoy the challenge of a "hardcore" server. Even EVE have "noob systems" where they are somewhat protected.
Keeping the comparison, the present system in Rust is equivalent to throw a Eve newcomer with his frigate inside a system being attacked by Goonswarm. Not fun at all.
So, lets give Rust new users "systems" (servers) where they could have the chance to learn and have more fun. Each server would have a Flag (balanced, hardcore), so it would be up to everyone the choice of the Rust flavor.
Again, my main goal with the changes I suggested is to bring more attractivity to new Rust gamers and potential buyers. In a few words: fun, diversity of choices and freedom to everyone.
Well, for noobs who want to have a chance to get into the game, there's always the option of starting on a quieter community server instead of one of the official servers that are overrun by longtime, hardcore players, hackers, griefers, etc.
But I will agree with your general sentiment that the loot system as it currently stands needs serious balancing. And I have confidence that the good folks at Facepunch will find that balance in time. For now, I accept that this game is at the alpha stage. And seeing how it is so far, I have high hopes for it.
[QUOTE=DoctorMort;47249113]Again, the ideas in debate are:[/QUOTE]
i appreciate you made this thread, but you are sorely mistaken if you think you can simply say "this is not up for dicussion, we are only talking about x" and everyone will jump. this is the rust forum, and it is pretty feral. my point remains; you used the stats to reinforce your point, which makes them available to critique. but out of courtesy, i'll discuss your points.
i agree with the concept of all types of loot being available from every type of loot spawn. the % chance for each should differ though, with airdrops having a higher chance for food and medical supplies, clothes and armour. with rad sites having more chance of bp's and weapons. with barrels having anything.
the "trick" airdrop idea is superfluous, given that it actually works against solo players. a big group will simply take all 3. a solo player risks being killed by a bigger group, or ganked by another solo after the battle, yet may have his nice new lootbox destroy itself when it lands. just have the possibility of multiple real airdrops, and make it for medical/care gear instead of high grade weapons.
don't really care either way in terms of amounts, but it needs to be balanced as to not "flood the market".
lastly, i have no issue with players building around rad sites. it's cheap, but tactically sound. the issue is that cupboards block building directly onto the walls, and depending on the type of wall, you need a higher tier of weapon to effect them. it used to be done in legacy too. the main thing is providing the same loot outside of a rad zone so players who [B]can't[/B] break in can still progress.
Your insights are appreciated.
From my observations here and in-game, the frustrations addressed in this thread are felt by many. The simple fact that the '24/7 kid gangs' have proliferated every server is a testament to this effect.
Although the ideas presented here could be employed to alleviate some of the current pain-points, they merely present a new challenge for those players who invest more of their life in game-play than in afk activities, and will also soon be countered.
I don't propose any particular solution, and invite discussion, however I see a path to everyone's enjoyment by providing leveled-up, tiered areas on a map. Something which more or less forces players who have progressed significantly into another map-space, where they would have less interaction with fresh-spawns. An XP system of sorts could lend great yields here, whereby a certain 'level' would be achieved in starter-map areas by building low-tier structures, harvesting low-tier animals and resources, with dwindling returns. Mountain areas (just as example) might provide higher-tier resources, but also require higher-level (XP) skill-sets to build in, mine, and animals which can not be easily harvested (if at all) by starter-levels.
Again, these are presented merely as seeds to grow a discussion to allow us all, fresh spawn with no BPs, and months-invested with all BPs alike to enjoy playing together on the same server. Let's work together to build this into the stellar game we all know it will be, eh! Less attacking each other, and more attacking the problem with constructive feedback for our great Facepunch masters to work with ;p
[QUOTE=mrknifey;47253306]i appreciate you made this thread, but you are sorely mistaken if you think you can simply say "this is not up for dicussion, we are only talking about x" and everyone will jump. this is the rust forum, and it is pretty feral. my point remains; you used the stats to reinforce your point, which makes them available to critique. but out of courtesy, i'll discuss your points.
i agree with the concept of all types of loot being available from every type of loot spawn. the % chance for each should differ though, with airdrops having a higher chance for food and medical supplies, clothes and armour. with rad sites having more chance of bp's and weapons. with barrels having anything.
the "trick" airdrop idea is superfluous, given that it actually works against solo players. a big group will simply take all 3. a solo player risks being killed by a bigger group, or ganked by another solo after the battle, yet may have his nice new lootbox destroy itself when it lands. just have the possibility of multiple real airdrops, and make it for medical/care gear instead of high grade weapons.
don't really care either way in terms of amounts, but it needs to be balanced as to not "flood the market".
lastly, i have no issue with players building around rad sites. it's cheap, but tactically sound. the issue is that cupboards block building directly onto the walls, and depending on the type of wall, you need a higher tier of weapon to effect them. it used to be done in legacy too. the main thing is providing the same loot outside of a rad zone so players who [B]can't[/B] break in can still progress.[/QUOTE]
Radtowns have always being camped. This is normal. But what isn't correct is to BLOCK the access to any part of the game for all other players. Let us imagine WOW where you couldn't buy a mount because someone blocked the entrance for the vendor...
It is certainly a game abuse. The game itself is extremely hard for newcomers, so there is no reason to make it impossible simply because some players have more pleasure in trolling and ruining the game experience of others than actually playing.
This seems to me to only be a temporary issue due to feature set.
If for instance today they released deployable ladders, or a grappling hook, that allows you to get up over the wall... well then problem solved.
[QUOTE=DoctorMort;47263566]Radtowns have always being camped. This is normal. But what isn't correct is to BLOCK the access to any part of the game for all other players. Let us imagine WOW where you couldn't buy a mount because someone blocked the entrance for the vendor...
It is certainly a game abuse. The game itself is extremely hard for newcomers, so there is no reason to make it impossible simply because some players have more pleasure in trolling and ruining the game experience of others than actually playing.[/QUOTE]
except its not really blocking, just making its access harder. people have been blocking a radtown on my server, i managed to enter almost every day. just work for it and its okay. it is hard yes, it sucks yes. but the only way to reach end-game now is to wall a radtown and loot it for a week, thats the only change you have at gun bp. i can understand why they do it..
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