Implamentation of basements will be nice addition to the game, that way people can start building bunkers instead of only sky scrapers.
Basements should require A LOT of stone to build, and you could also make a hidden trap door to protect it.
Im in for anything that helps to get rid of all that stonepiles we hoard up.
It seems that the game uses a static landscape, so being able to dig looks unlikely.
[QUOTE=Kurogo;44051968]It seems that the game uses a static landscape, so being able to dig looks unlikely.[/QUOTE]
Pretty much this. There is nothing below the ground mesh so digging isn't really possible. All that could be done would be to use a modular basement cube of some sort in place of the standard foundation blocks. But even this would probably not work as they wouldn't punch a hole in the ground mesh so you'd be blocked from going down into it.
For this to work, there would have to be a rather drastic change to how the game engine deals with and renders terrain. That, combined with the fact that you can build with no size limitation above ground, makes this unnecessary IMO.
2 floors basement would be a nice thing, or a Map with Caves, where you can build in, maybe build something in Front of the Cave, so noone can some in.
Digging is however, very unlikely to be possible any time soon with this sort of map.
IMO enable digging would turn this game into a MINECRAFT with nice graphics.
The whole map would be transversed by tunnels, furthermore there would be holes in the landscape as big as after an meteorite impact :)
Then, some weeks later, people start to ask for more ressources like gold, iron or diamond.
[QUOTE=JoeyBeanz;44052202]you can build with no size limitation above ground, makes this unnecessary IMO[/QUOTE]
I agree with this opinion
digging is a bit too far off, but using the foundations as basement entry and then add foundation-like cubes underneath within the grid sounds not so impossible actually... until ppl hit ground water and drown in their own basement.
would be fun to hunt for deep, hidden vaults and mazes instead of stairs next to a tower.
It would be sweet to be able to grade some land. Just to make sure you get a flat surface to build on. Some of my bases have been ruined by slopes. If you can't grade the ground it should be able to at least build something underneath the foundation to continue your house if needed.
I agree with you it would be cool, but it won't work. There is no Terra-forming because the map itself is static. You can't dig through mountains or pile up hills or change anything about the original map (you can only add on-top of it.) Among other reasons, the graphics are too high, the world is not "cubed" to create measurable blocks that could be taken away or added.
Now developers could add static underground bunkers by attaching it to the "floating" map underneath, like in a rad town somewhere and make it like a lootable building. But they wouldn't change the entire engine and structure of the map (i.e. replace map with cube blocks) in order to achieve this. Nor should they.
Still a very cool thought OP!
I think it may be possible without having to create and entire 'underground' that is just waiting there by just making the game engine able to create space to the underground as the player 'digs'.
I may be talking out of my ass here but it seems possible to save a lot of rendering power with this technique and still make everyone happy. Thoughts? :words:
[QUOTE=-Truth-;44054811]I think it may be possible without having to create and entire 'underground' that is just waiting there by just making the game engine able to create space to the underground as the player 'digs'.
I may be talking out of my ass here but it seems possible to save a lot of rendering power with this technique and still make everyone happy. Thoughts? :words:[/QUOTE]
Again, a really cool idea for a workaround. But if I may flesh this one out a little bit. What that would entail would be for "digging" to create a placed object (just like placing a wood box) underground that is hollow (so you could walk through). This wouldn't require rendering power so much, because it's not about 'painting' objects in your fov at one time (in fact you would be rendering a rather small space while you were underground), but would require major brute persistent memory just like remembering where all those other walls, pillars etc. are. In the same way as AI, number of structures are limited by the sheer volume of all these things at the same time, these underground "objects" would be too large of a burden.
You also would still require "breaking" the surface of the map at some point to create/enter that hole, even if all subsequent holes didn't break the surface, which can't be done in the world and framework we have (static map without set measurable blocks to remove). Also every time you dug again horizontally, the server would have to remove the "wall" of the "box" to connect the two and make a tunnel (or "hallway" as far as this concept is concerned). Combine that with the underground intersecting "boxes" of 100+ players....and you've got an order to tall to fill my friend.
[QUOTE=stym;43723968][IMG]http://i.imgur.com/mF3QYs6.png[/IMG]
Should be seen as hollow wood foundations, not as single parts (pillars,ground..) to create a basement.[/QUOTE]
More [URL="http://facepunch.com/showthread.php?t=1354611"]here[/URL]
[QUOTE=Lubstar;44055116]More [URL="http://facepunch.com/showthread.php?t=1354611"]here[/URL][/QUOTE]
i saw this rendering as well, and that's what i was refering to with "cube like grid". you could go further down, left, right and whereever with such a technique, always assuring that one cube is attached to the side of another. if it works like normal foundations with the minimum distance between them, then ppl should not even run into eachothers basements that way.
Kneon has the right of it.
The way the way the engine is designed they are unable to allow users to dictate changes to the map geometry because the map is static. They could make the map include static cave systems underground that you could explore/build in, but it is seems mostly impossible to allow the player to building through the ground in any way.
They may eventually release tools to create your own maps which could allow servers to have their own unique maps which would be cool and allow for that level of mystery.
People forget that this map is not the final product. Garry has all the time in the world to change things if he wants to.
if you can build up from the ground mesh then it should be possible for Garry to code a way to build down from the ground mesh.
think of a plank of wood. I can nail or glue blocks of wood to the top of the plank (buildings). I can also flip it over and attach blocks of wood to the bottom of the plank (basement/pit trap).
theres gotta be a way to allow the player to move through the plank of wood (ground). even if you had to resort to teleporting the player from a point above the ground mesh to a point below the ground mesh it could be done.
Rust can differentiate itself from minecraft by not allowing digging under ground, but allowing the placement of structures underground. the resource cost of doing that can increase as you go further down. And the cost of resources in general is likely to restrict horizontal sprawl.
I have no doubt it could be done without requiring drastic changes to the existing map.
[QUOTE=epij;44052423]digging is a bit too far off, but using the foundations as basement entry and then add foundation-like cubes underneath within the grid sounds not so impossible actually... until ppl hit ground water and drown in their own basement.
would be fun to hunt for deep, hidden vaults and mazes instead of stairs next to a tower.[/QUOTE]
making them stone and metal to reduce light entering would force players to use flares, flashlights and torches to get through them no matter what time of day would make it scary, especially if someone was defending it.
[QUOTE=JoeyBeanz;44052202]Pretty much this. There is nothing below the ground mesh so digging isn't really possible. All that could be done would be to use a modular basement cube of some sort in place of the standard foundation blocks. But even this would probably not work as they wouldn't punch a hole in the ground mesh so you'd be blocked from going down into it.
For this to work, there would have to be a rather drastic change to how the game engine deals with and renders terrain. That, combined with the fact that you can build with no size limitation above ground, makes this unnecessary IMO.[/QUOTE]
[url]http://facepunch.com/showthread.php?t=1347309[/url]
Something that should work, or?
There would be no need for deformable landscapes. Just have the engine draw the ground first and then have it draw any modular basement holes over the top. If you have played Assassins Creed IV and seen when you tag an enemy in eagle vision, that enemy is drawn over the top of everything else (apart from the HUD) so you can see them through walls etc. This is done using a second camera that draws the given model to a render target that is a texture, and the texture is then drawn to the screen buffer.
Long story short, this is possible without mesh deforming, but the alternatives does still bring a performance decrease.
EDIT: There could very well be a simpler way of doing this, but from my experience in game development, I know that way is a possibility.
saying that we can dig cuz the map has nothing below it makes sense. saying that's why we can't add it to the game is really silly. the author is asking for it to be implemented and that means such changes would be accounted form. the game is in alpha stage anything can change. Garry could make this a tetris clone tomorrow if he wanted.
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