[Dear Gary] I think we can all agree, decay sucks. - Rust

I understand it's WIP, but could you keep it active on the dev branch only for now? It's really tiresome in its current form. I am not sure what this game wants me to do anymore. I was told building wasn't the "point" and PvP and raiding was. Ok.... Can I ever get to that point? No. Because between trying to create my base -with the new higher armor requirements not helping that (seriously, 500 metal?)- and having to play whack-a-barrel for BPs, we now have whack-a-foundation to stop it all falling down.... When am I ever going to get outside and do something other than whack rocks and trees to keep what little I have there? The few times I have managed to get equipment together and a base that wasn't raided (and was secure enough to make stuff) the server either wipes for an update, wipes because players wanted it (because they run the game in toasters and after a few days their FPS turns to crap), or I crashed out and got looted, or I simply ran into a group and got murdered. Most of my time in RUST I just sit in my house. Please. The new decay I thought was going to work in the background. As Rustafied published a little list stating that you wouldn't need any tricks to combat it..... I assumed that meant it would simply affect structures outside of the cupboard zone. You know, to clear away the random foundations people put down to get out of places or to get up to places etc. Why's it turned into a new game mechanic? Who wants to run round hitting their foundations every day?? Is that fun??? If you've built something defensive, like put barricades against or on your foundation areas (building a pit for example) good luck with getting back to those to hit them. This just removed building options! This just screwed over the FEW defensive options people have with bases when they are offline and vaulnerable. Now while they are offline their base is also degrading making the raiders job even easier. Why do you hate us? :(

I think we need to give it a bit of time, you might be right about confining it to Dev until it's optimised a little more. Legacy decay worked very well, imo. I can't remember exactly, but I think it was a timer linked to the most recent opening or closing of a door attached to the structure.

it definitely needs some form of centralization. Using the tool cupboards seems like the easiest. Just interact with the tool cupboard and everything in its radius has its decay reset. I don't think it should need materials since decay is supposed to just clear away abandoned bases, not be a game mechanic in itself.

Why don't you just play another game for a week or two while they figure out how to balance it? Some good titles just released.

Ok first of all stop whining. Raiders job easier? 1 c4 takes 45 minutes OF CRAFTING. Like staying in base and craft materials, you understand? 45 mintues of staying afk so i can craft one c4. I REPEAT 45 MINUTES OF AFK. Thats not fucking easy. Decay system? It takes 5 fucking days to go to complete 0(for stone). For the sake of amusement lets say you miss one day. that means (24 * 60) / 15 = 96 DAMAGE to a stone. Now really if a raider would want to raid you with or without 96 damage they will bring that stone foundation down. I really want to hear your argument except the shit argument :"I can build however i want even if i make a base 50x50 that will freeze almost any freaking cpu. It's just raiders fault". You can try other games suited for your desires like MineSomething and other building/survival simulator.

Legacy decay was pretty darn good. This ain't. Buildings should only decay if player didn't log in 2 days straight.

[QUOTE=Thc420Vato;47552759]Legacy decay was pretty darn good. This ain't. Buildings should only decay if player didn't log in 2 days straight.[/QUOTE] Yes on LEGACY because on Legacy it was harder to build mega bases. Because you had too look for piles of wood to get more wood otherwise tree were giving 1 wood. Now it is freaking easy. So what should a base stay 7 days without being deleted just because of reasons? Then we are better with the old system of wipes after 7 days.

Armored foundations take 10 days to decay. I think that's good.

all I am hearing from iceboy is that he doesnt much like defending and enjoys how it is much easier for him to raid bases now. He thinks 45 mins is a long time to spend crafting, and would like for us to spend at least longer than that running around repairing our stuff to counter him. so in other words, he wants defense harder, raiding easier. Please explain what you would be raiding if people no longer even cared to build bases? As far as going to play minecraft, you are basically saying that if you like building, Rust isnt for you. Which I disagree with 100%. If you only want to kill, go play DayZ, or many of those other boring as hell survival games. Minecraft is just crafting and lacks any of the same fun Rust has. That is why Rust is fun, because base building isnt about aesthetics or creative expression, its about survival. It reminds me more of when my brother and I used to build forts when we were kids. I actually remember raiding some neighborhood kids' crap "fort" for wood to make ours even more awesome (they later chased us on their awesome bikes with the cards taped to spokes). Rust executes the base building and defending gameplay perfectly. minecraft doesn't. DayZ doesn't. Don't break Rust just because of DayZ style players.

[QUOTE=Iceboy15;47552945]Yes on LEGACY because on Legacy it was harder to build mega bases. Because you had too look for piles of wood to get more wood otherwise tree were giving 1 wood. Now it is freaking easy. So what should a base stay 7 days without being deleted just because of reasons? Then we are better with the old system of wipes after 7 days.[/QUOTE] I have to disagree with the "harder to build mega bases" it was pretty damn easy to build them too unless you were building somewhere in the middle of no man's land especially if you were doing it in the resource hole or really close to areas similar to that one + the beginning was much safer because wood couldn't be brought down by pickaxes/hatchets .

[QUOTE=Iceboy15;47552674]45 MINUTES OF AFK. Thats not fucking easy.[/QUOTE] This is too funny not to quote. but I think you will miss the joke, so I mean that afk takes 0% effort versus running around repairing, which actually requires your attention. We should also really consider the collection of resources in both cases as part of the overall effort. In the grand scheme of things, what players are doing is competing for resources, and then deciding to either improve their offense or defense with them. If one player gets more resources than another, he can decide to use it all to increase defense, requiring another player to have enough offense (c4) to defeat them. What this change effectively does is make it so defense is now something that must be maintained instead of just amassed, while offense is still just amassed. Before, any degradation to your base was at a direct cost to the offender, but now time is on their side. If this change remains, I predict an inevitable increase in cost to make c4 in order to rebalance the defense vs offense. If offense is left too easy, easier than defending at least, then building a base will become pointless, and all players will just invest all resources in offense only, eventually realizing that there is nothing actually left to raid. What about at least lowering the cost to repair? so its not the equivalent of having to rebuild your entire house every few days.

Off course its easy, patience its everyone virtue right? You forgot one little thing. I CAME TO PLAY not to stay afk. How much you stay to make your 30 c4 needt to destroy base? 6 hours maybe 10? the 30 c4 will cost 30 hours. Balance? I can't see it. And you stay afk, you need to stay in the game and do nothing for 45 minutes. Why not do the same to building, 1x1 base with ceiling floor walls and pillar to stay afk 45 minutes to do. NOW its balanced. You have no idea what balance means. You make your base with raw materials. Its instant. C4 needs to be crafted from raw materials.

I think iceboy needs to go sit in the corner. The temper tantrum is strong in this one.

All I was really saying was that going around repairing was more work than sitting AFK. And you must also consider it took me WELL over 30 hours to make that base. You just can't see balance because you can't comprehend that things can take longer than 30 hours. So to you it seems an impossibility to get into my base. Good. That is why I built it that way. Everything takes time. Collecting raw resources takes time too. Don't give me this nonsense about how building is instant. Just consider the time it takes to collect the resources and the time it takes to craft as part of the same total time spent trying to achieve one goal. If someone spends 30 hours making a base, it shouldn't necessarily take 30 hours worth of effort to break in, but it definitely shouldn't take 45 minutes either. On our server, I haven't had to craft a single c4 yet (no blueprint either), and I have obtained about 20. Some from houses that we broke into, some from air drops. We found one house with 10 c4, which took 3 c4 to get into. This also gave us an idea of what kind of offenses people were capable of, and what we needed to build to protect against it. You aren't supposed to sit AFK for 30 hours anyway, you are supposed to play with friends and then collect up c4 over a week or something, then hit the biggest house you can find. I bet you it has the most loot. I was expecting your response, so I prepared a statement ahead of time: ice boy is clearly just someone who spends all his resources on offense. so, naturally, like a fast driver who hates slow drivers, his worst enemy is the kind of player who spends all his resources on defense. But what I liked about Rust was always the perfect balance between the two, and the choice you had to make. Do you increase defense, or are you ready to start making guns and c4 instead of more metal doors? But then you get raided, and next time you make sure its 4 doors instead of just 1. You eventually learn that Rust was about balance. That you often did best when you spent equally on offense and defense. What is the fun in taking everyone's guns if you don't even have a secure place to put all that booty. I enjoy figuring out the methods for breaking through people's security, and I enjoy creating counter measures for the same methods. Its a game of measures and countermeasures. That is why its so awesome. You would probably never make past layer 3 of my base protection. Layer 1, hide the house. layer 2, strength in walls, counted in c4 it takes to get to the target room. layer 3, decoys, fake hallways and pointless doors to waste c4. layer 4, hiding, hide the entrance to the actual lair within your base. layer 5, more strength, inner base must also be as c4 resistant as possible. layer 6, hiding, hide boxes in your house, or hidden stashes in legacy. layer 7, self destruct loot, if you cant have it no one can, put boxes on top of stone/wood ceiling that will be blown when people try to penetrate the armored doorway below. And I will tell you, its a hell of a lot more fun raiding a house built this way, than using one c4 to get into a stupid hollow sheet metal house. [IMG]http://halfwidth.net/static/megafortressraidedbyladder.jpg[/IMG] [IMG]http://halfwidth.net/static/shouldhavemadewindowbars.jpg[/IMG] [IMG]http://halfwidth.net/static/insidethearmory.jpg[/IMG] We circumvented having to use 26 c4 by making the giant ladder tower. They should have made window bars, even though that jump through the window was really difficult to make. But actually that armory room only had boxes and boxes filled with shotguns, p250s, and resources. All their c4, bolt actions, and m4s were secured by 10 additional doors we had to blow off, but we were preparing for over a week, so we brought 24 c4.

as i have said in every thread about how bad decay is so far, i think everyone is overreacting about all this. decay was in legacy; yes in a slightly different form, but it was more severe if left for 2 days than this new version is. the old version still damaged your house, and could be countered by repairing every panel. it just did it fast enough that most people didn't see the panel damaged, but destroyed. also in legacy, many servers had decay turned off, same with durability. it doesn't mean it shouldn't be in the vanilla version of the game, nor that it doesn't need some testing to determine balance. which is what they are figuring out right now. y'know, like when we were spawning with the bolty so they could bug test that? but seriously, as a defender/basemaker myself, hitting a few panels every few days is not that big an effort. don't want to repair 500 foundations? maybe don't try and maintain a massive build by yourself.

the problem is not with decay, or a decay system. the old system had a one day grace period before any decay even started btw, and even longer for metal houses, which was reset whenever you opened any doors. the problem is that you cant even reach some foundations or things under stairs or behind other walls or half blocks, to hit with the hammer. that and the lack of grace period. decay itself is good, but this actually prevents you from building many designs of houses. I will have to empty things from a large box in a few days, destroy the box, repair the foundation that the box prevented me from repairing, make a new box, put all the things back. If people do not say this is a bad system, other people will come along saying that its fine without even understanding what the actual problem is, and the problem will go unfixed. decay is fine. I just do not like the way it works now. It just got added, so of course there will be unimaginable problems. We are just letting the devs know what some of those are.

Well at the moment you can turn the decay off, just add "decay.scale 0" into the cfg.

[QUOTE=rocknlouie;47555241]the problem is not with decay, or a decay system. the old system had a one day grace period before any decay even started btw, and even longer for metal houses, which was reset whenever you opened any doors. the problem is that you cant even reach some foundations or things under stairs or behind other walls or half blocks, to hit with the hammer. that and the lack of grace period. decay itself is good, but this actually prevents you from building many designs of houses. I will have to empty things from a large box in a few days, destroy the box, repair the foundation that the box prevented me from repairing, make a new box, put all the things back. If people do not say this is a bad system, other people will come along saying that its fine without even understanding what the actual problem is, and the problem will go unfixed. decay is fine. I just do not like the way it works now. It just got added, so of course there will be unimaginable problems. We are just letting the devs know what some of those are.[/QUOTE] They've actually already fixed the issue with building blocks being blocked from repair. Was in the twitter feed for this week so I imagine we'll see it with this week's update. On an unrelated note, it's nice to see garry finally trying to tackle this memory leak issue with some tests!

Worst of all is water bases. I built this water base about 2 days before the patch. It has stone foundations, surrounded by metal spike walls, submerged in freezing water. Building that was quite a task as you can maybe imagine, but it was worth it because of how difficult/risky it would be to assault. Now it won't even need to be assaulted, because within a few days from now, everything will crash into the sea and there is nothing I can do about. I would need to use c4 to destroy the half blocks on top of the foundations, to even be able to reach them for repairs. Should I even go as far as that to save the building, then I'd only find that it would still be impossible to reach it with the hammer, because tools can't be used when diving. This is what I get for not building on top of a rock, because I feel "unraidable" bases like that are lame. I would definately support a 2 day grace period (preferably over 1 day imo) where no damage is done to buildings at all. After all I was left with the impression that the system was added to deal with abandoned buildings littering the map. Even if another motive was to force people to go outside and gather resources for repairs instead of hiding inside all day, I think the current system is too broken to be out of the development branch.

When mughishi was inspecting the new dll files from the latest rustupdate he found the new command: decay.scale <value> Well basicly the serverowner can set his own decay rate like for example: decay.scale 0 = off decay.scale 0.5 = half decay decay.scale 1 = original decay Image-Proof of the serverconsole: [url]http://oxidemod.org/proxy.php?image=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2F0EFg2sK.png%3F1&hash=4884686264834bb906331e53657eacf4[/url] Greetings

[QUOTE=BlitzKrieg-K;47556345]Worst of all is water bases. I built this water base about 2 days before the patch. It has stone foundations, surrounded by metal spike walls, submerged in freezing water. Building that was quite a task as you can maybe imagine, but it was worth it because of how difficult/risky it would be to assault. Now it won't even need to be assaulted, because within a few days from now, everything will crash into the sea and there is nothing I can do about. I would need to use c4 to destroy the half blocks on top of the foundations, to even be able to reach them for repairs. Should I even go as far as that to save the building, then I'd only find that it would still be impossible to reach it with the hammer, because tools can't be used when diving. This is what I get for not building on top of a rock, because I feel "unraidable" bases like that are lame. I would definately support a 2 day grace period (preferably over 1 day imo) where no damage is done to buildings at all. After all I was left with the impression that the system was added to deal with abandoned buildings littering the map. Even if another motive was to force people to go outside and gather resources for repairs instead of hiding inside all day, I think the current system is too broken to be out of the development branch.[/QUOTE] well to be fair, a waterlogged foundation would need repairs to stop it from eroding and collapsing in real life too. the solution is to use more resistant materials such as reinforced metal (ie armoured in game terms). you can't repair the floor from the inside? or is it one of those ones with like 3 floors worth of half blocks to make the bottom unpassable?

Its nice to see a user who complained about a bad system banned, it says a lot from devs

[QUOTE=Akop;47562051]Its nice to see a user who complained about a bad system banned, it says a lot from devs[/QUOTE] he said the king is naked.

[QUOTE=Akop;47562051]Its nice to see a user who complained about a bad system banned, it says a lot from devs[/QUOTE] He got banned because he posted a "MEME" as an answer to a Supportrequest. It's not because he is complaining.

Ok

[QUOTE=mrknifey;47557272] is it one of those ones with like 3 floors worth of half blocks to make the bottom unpassable?[/QUOTE] That's the issue I'm dealing with on my base. Foundation + layers of half blocks and 3 layers of spike barricades under water surrounding all my foundation except the main entrance. Unless something is introduced into the patch on Thursday, my base will come crashing down next Monday and there's nothing I can do about it.

[QUOTE=Crunchmeister;47562405]That's the issue I'm dealing with on my base. Foundation + layers of half blocks and 3 layers of spike barricades under water surrounding all my foundation except the main entrance. Unless something is introduced into the patch on Thursday, my base will come crashing down next Monday and there's nothing I can do about it.[/QUOTE] If you made your base with pillars everywhere (hopefully not twig ones so some random naked can't shoot one out, reducing your base to nothing) your base might float crunch. I don't think that we'd all agree that decay sucks... that seems to be an overreaction. I am all for decay for reasons of clearing up server clutter from unused structures. I think most of us would agree that in its current state, the decay system needs some tweaks. I think it was pretty obvious that this was really a trial and they plan to make some tweaks to fine tune it. There seem to be some good ideas floating around regarding this and I am sure the devs are considering lots of possibilities. [editline]20th April 2015[/editline] [QUOTE=Zipper Bear;47555417]They've actually already fixed the issue with building blocks being blocked from repair. Was in the twitter feed for this week so I imagine we'll see it with this week's update. On an unrelated note, it's nice to see garry finally trying to tackle this memory leak issue with some tests![/QUOTE] Garry's twitter said specifically "landlocked" blocks but really didn't specify what this means. Does this mean blocks that are partly covered by land so they cant be hit with the hammer? Does this mean blocks that are by design (big blocks covering a foundation for example) blocked off from access? I think people took it to mean different things and by Garry's response to the blocks/stairs question immediately following it, it didn't really clarify the issue.

[QUOTE=Insub;47562570]If you made your base with pillars everywhere (hopefully not twig ones so some random naked can't shoot one out, reducing your base to nothing) your base might float crunch. I don't think that we'd all agree that decay sucks... that seems to be an overreaction. I am all for decay for reasons of clearing up server clutter from unused structures. I think most of us would agree that in its current state, the decay system needs some tweaks. I think it was pretty obvious that this was really a trial and they plan to make some tweaks to fine tune it. There seem to be some good ideas floating around regarding this and I am sure the devs are considering lots of possibilities.[/QUOTE] I do have pillars. I'm hoping this is what happens. But as a backup, we're likely going to rebuild a new base elsewhere unless something changes to decay in the update. I'm all for decay as well. It's badly needed to keep the landscape clear of temporary and abandoned structures. The current iteration is less than ideal though. The upkeep required is just not really feasible in all situations (like mine). [QUOTE=Insub;47562570] Garry's twitter said specifically "landlocked" blocks but really didn't specify what this means. Does this mean blocks that are partly covered by land so they cant be hit with the hammer? Does this mean blocks that are by design (big blocks covering a foundation for example) blocked off from access? I think people took it to mean different things and by Garry's response to the blocks/stairs question immediately following it, it didn't really clarify the issue.[/QUOTE] Agreed. "Landlocked" is a very vague term here. I know that since the last update to decay, only the outer foundation decays. Inner foundations are fine. Not sure about ones that go underground though. But likely it means anything that surrounded by land or other building blocks from the sides. won't decay.

it looks only the side foundations get decay damage the inner ones are not. solution = put 4-5x more stone/tier6 foundation around the house real foundation and then always the outer ones will get damage. and u can replace them weekly.

I dont mind having to repair stuff, cost is fine but it is tedious and sometimes impossible to do.. Best example is a 3x3 with a block and stairs in center.. Cant fix the middle foundation. Somtimes you can see the foundation but not hit it with hammer.. This sucks really badly, its broken and highly limiting! Fix plz!!! Cupboard to repair all in radius seems like a good option as a quick fix.