Is there a way to counter the decay of our foundations other than physically repairing them with the hammer?
repairing is tedious imo, Garry, make it so the Toolbox can be opened and you can placed stacks of resources inside, anything decaying in the radius will use these resources to be repaired/maintained.
What if you have foundations that go underground?
[QUOTE=frank_walls;47543538]What if you have foundations that go underground?[/QUOTE]
You are screwed! I also have foundations that are covered with snow and ground and those foundations can not be repaired.
Seriously, this decay thing needs to be reworked. I have foundations that are under blocks- so I'm finding big holes in my base in places. The decay is completely noticeable. Yes, I am not the average player per say but it seems to be about 10 per hour. I am sharing a large space with some other people and I'm not going to be able to repair everything even if I wanted to. I'll be spending more time in my base repairing than out exploring if I have to devote half my time to base maintenance.
Having foundations underground, doesn't seem like a fair feature to me. Sure, everybody has their opinion, but from another point of view, your underground foundations are invulnerable to melee raiding , terms which I don't agree with.
On the other hand, I do agree with people that can't or have a hard time repairing pieces underneath blocks or stairs.
For now, I do like the idea of decay, because it forces people to build moderate houses, not huge castles and fortresses. Sure, building is fun, I do agree with that, but it isn't quite fair on different aspects. I believe the size of the house should correspond to the number of players.
Iv'ed seen players build 25x25 houses and they were only 2-3 players. Why ? Because of lag advantage (they having a top notch device). Just being in the same area with the house, would reduce your fps drastically. (I don't agree on these)
Now I'm not saying that in the current state, the decay is ok, but as the game goes, 10 decay per hour doesn't seem like much to me, considering a stone has 500 hp. Having 240 hp gone in 24 hours doesn't seem like that much. I mean, let's face it. Considering that it's a race for gameplay until next wipe (so far Iv'ed seen wipes every week, let's just take in account the worst case scenario) and your house will probably get raided anyway, it seems like a fair amount. Maybe 5 hp/hour would be better.
(The above statement was made in the worst case scenario and considering stone blocks, which are fairly common these times)
Decay only removes about 1HP per 15 minutes from foundations with no way to counter it aside from repairing them. It's a very basic system as the devblog said - but it's at least a start to help with the shit performance more populated servers struggle with. Our server averages 100+ players so I welcome decay in any form.
Clearly Gary does this on purpose so he can tone it down later and look good..
[QUOTE=Denrrim;47544003]Having foundations underground, doesn't seem like a fair feature to me. Sure, everybody has their opinion, but from another point of view, your underground foundations are invulnerable to melee raiding , terms which I don't agree with.[/QUOTE]
Well that's just ridiculous. Having foundations underground doesn't make it harder to raid. It just lets you build on slopes better.
I'm all for decay, but this first step is an awful implementation. They took out having to hammer the walls when building because it became a hammer simulator, so why would you add something where you have to hammer even more?
I didn't said it was harder to raid, I said it's invulnerable to melee raiding (might be vulnerable to c4, I have no idea). Most of the times, breaking a foundation helps breaking other stuff faster, that's why I said I don't agree with those kind of foundations. Like the ones that go completely underground. I placed foundations completely underground just to see how far they can go and I reached 8. It just doesn't seem fair. But then again, I totally agree with a foundation that helps building on slopes.
I had no time to test the decay so far, but I wouldn't mind hammering every piece once everyday (considering I don't build huge homes). If it is ~1hp every 15minutes, ~4hp/hour , ~96hp/24hours, I'd say it's fair. But then again, I'm judging by whatever is written here regarding decay rate and I'm seeing people complain about insanely fast decay. So I'll do some tests myself whenever I can.
Well i'm going to quit this game for a while... This decision is totally insane. At least work it out better before releasing it. This is just crap. I made a big base and with this kind of decay i'm totally screwed. I put like 90 hours in my base and only after 1 day lots of 'planning' foundations are gone (around 10k wood). Only after a few hours. i'm not gonna login and play to hammer 17x17 foundations. You know, there are foundations you can't reach because of a stair on top of it. How about that?
Then there is another problem: Balance. Its gone. Almost everything requires wood and the result is that all servers i've been playing on are getting cleared of woods in just a few days. The pace the trees grow back is to slow to hold up to the pace people cut them down. Now with another (huge) factor this problem will be multiplied. Now we require to cut even more wood to 'repair'. At this stage, i just gonna say: the game is moving in a state of unbalance. Let lanterns and furnaces also burn animal fat to keep the pressure on the trees down.
I thought Facepunch was going to work on playability. This is a huge, huge step backwards for me. Really. Once I found out the inner parts of my base just vanished .. i got really angry.
Why would i play a game in which i have to hammer my foundations all the time. How can you call that a game?
[IMG]http://cloud-4.steamusercontent.com/ugc/37495060015456926/4FA8C7595D6076AAD7562E9A800907460AC7D383/[/IMG]
Yes, all the inner parts? .. gone.
Thanks man. Bye.
Yeah i agree it wouldnt be bad for the fact that many people with large bases have so many rooms that you cant even access because they are walled in, how are we to repair these foundations? And worse is if you have a cupboard that is walled in, the foundation will fallout from under the cupboard.
[QUOTE=niquedegraaff;47544744]Well i'm going to quit this game for a while... This decision is totally insane. At least work it out better before releasing it. This is just crap. I made a big base and with this kind of decay i'm totally screwed. I put like 90 hours in my base and only after 1 day lots of 'planning' foundations are gone (around 10k wood). Only after a few hours. i'm not gonna login and play to hammer 17x17 foundations. You know, there are foundations you can't reach because of a stair on top of it. How about that?
I thought Facepunch was going to work on playability. This is a huge, huge step backwards. Really. Why would i play a game in which i have to hammer my foundations all the time. How can you call that a game?
[/QUOTE]
First off, thanks for the great base building tips. This is a good example of a mega clan base. Great stuff. I recognize your dominance, but cant say I sympathize too much. I feel sorry for the single players who come near.
The game has changed again so that you must build to accommodate decay repair. This base obviously presents issues in meeting that game requirement. Time to survive another way.
I think Maurino described Rust's intentions in the latest Devblog. I think he said "Fuck that!" regarding water bases. If I can interpret that further, that means any FORTIFIED BASE. The Devs obviously want us OUT AND ABOUT, KOsing and GANG BANGING, not building fortifications. If you get a gun, run around killing until you lose it. Start over with spear/bow/gun until you lose it again. Enjoy the continuous fights and fuck overs. Of course you can still build bases, but their only defense should be fire fights not impenetrable bases.
Hate to be a repeating Randy, but what needs to be introduced are MORE traps! A way for builders or players to mess with the raiders so that building and building decay is only a part of temporary loot protection.
Obviously you must be good a battling it out, so for now, get out and do what you do best, KILL.
The issue I'm having is that I have a 4x4x4 water base. It's not a huge base, but a good size for the 6 of us that share it. On top of the foundation is a layer of blocks to raise it to water level. And the 4-story base is built up on this platform.
I can repair the outer foundation easily enough by swimming, but the 4 central foundation blocks are inaccessible since they have half blocks built on top of them. There's no way to repair them directly. At the current decay rate, they'll disappear after roughly 10 days, potentially collapsing part of my base in the process.
I'm all for decay of foundations to manage old structures. I've already seen the benefits, as several raid towers that were scattered across the landscape collapsed 75 mins after the patch (actually got to see a 12 story tower naturally collapse - LOTS of gibs!!!). It's a positive addition.
But the current counter to decay requires a lot of manual intervention. I'm really hoping that FP makes some adjustment to how to handle decay in next week's update. I'd hate to have my base collapse because of this.
If the devs want us out and about, then this was a move in the wrong direction. I don't want to run around and hammer 400 foundations in a 20x20. (and yes, we have a fair number of players)
[IMG]http://cloud-4.steamusercontent.com/ugc/539646304421584648/6E8CEE6A9B5690172A3DC3909D900CA543F6BE0C/[/IMG]
We didn't intentionally build underground but there are parts of the snow that are built up and cover only part of a foundation- this makes it impossible to repair.
[IMG]http://cloud-4.steamusercontent.com/ugc/539646410282378847/C1B01504287A7AC4D1D6654EC854630C6FC83406/[/IMG] We've already had parts of the building missing due to this. Also, there are many places where big blocks were used to cover foundations and match the next level of foundation so we could nice flat floors. Many of these foundations are under big blocks. It is impossible to repair the foundations. Before the patch, I upgraded everything to at least stone in the first levels but I don't know if someone placed a twig foundation underneath, then a stone block on top- we have had some giant holes here and there so I imagine that we've already found them.
[QUOTE=frank_walls;47544245]Well that's just ridiculous. Having foundations underground doesn't make it harder to raid. It just lets you build on slopes better.
I'm all for decay, but this first step is an awful implementation. They took out having to hammer the walls when building because it became a hammer simulator, so why would you add something where you have to hammer even more?[/QUOTE]
+1. Don't know how you're supposed to build anywhere except on flat land with this.
[QUOTE=IMF2000;47545351][url]https://twitter.com/RustUpdates/status/589017121016938496[/url][/QUOTE]
What about foundations under stairs?
[QUOTE=IMF2000;47545351][url]https://twitter.com/RustUpdates/status/589017121016938496[/url][/QUOTE]
Hopefully this means "inaccessible blocks" in general. Which would mean decay affects only the outer blocks of a building. Then it would be acceptable. Although I still think the "Carpenter Simulator" duty of having to run around repairing foundations constantly is a bit tedious, at least this will guarantee that occupied bases won't collapse.
That's my server and I agree with Nique. Is Gary trying to ruin Rust's gameplay. why the hell has this not been thought through properly before adding this to the game. Decay should not even start until a player has been offline for at least 5 days. Rust is not a hammer simulator.
Kian Pretoria. (Admin)
This game has no freaking clue what it wants to be. That's why this shat keeps happening.
It's not about bases. Then it is about bases...
My main issue with RUST right now is that playing it feels like a full time job. It is a full time job.
Not only do I have to put in tons of hours just to secure my current progress from being ganked by other players on their whim, but I have to now whack my base to stop it falling down every few hours? When am I ever going to be able to leave my base with C4 and guns to do something else? Seems never. Between decay, raids, frequent wipes and the increasing building costs (500 frags per armor block, great move that....) my game time in RUST consists of doing the same stuff over and over again. Hitting rocks, trees and trying to make a secure base. At which point the server probably wipes for the next update that adds better looking trees.
What's worse is when people shout for a server wipe 2 weeks after we've wiped already when it's not even required... like really? Get a better system ffs. If you can't play after a few weeks of building because of your framerate, upgrade! When the final game releases you're going to be screwed anyway. Wipes are not part of the plan. Stop trying to play the game on an i3 Dell Laptop.
Anyway, I thought decay was supposed to be seamless. I read the bullets on rustafied and Gary said it should sort itself out in the background. I assumed cupboards would protect your stuff so you wouldn't have to do anything. But nope, seems hitting blocks is required after all. So my new time waster in RUST. This isn't a survival game. It's an exercise in futility, it's almost like some sort of commentary on how pointless everything in life is.
Edit:
Yes I am so frustrated with rage that I spent 300+ hrs in this game because I thought it was headed somewhere. It's not. It's basically DayZ. It's never going to get out of Alpha. Not until it works out what it wants to be, and who it wants to please.
[QUOTE=Crunchmeister;47545525]Hopefully this means "inaccessible blocks" in general. Which would mean decay affects only the outer blocks of a building. Then it would be acceptable. Although I still think the "Carpenter Simulator" duty of having to run around repairing foundations constantly is a bit tedious, at least this will guarantee that occupied bases won't collapse.[/QUOTE]
The issue really is the entity counts and base litter due to all the C4 annihilation. In the past a server admin would spend his waking hours cleaning base litter. Decay is a way to deal with this, but what about the active mega base? Too long of delay, and the litter remains.
I like the idea of a resource store that replenishes your base or areas of your base if resources exist. if you want to get into the costs to maintain such elaborate bases, so be it. You would be more likely to change base strategies though.
[editline]17th April 2015[/editline]
[QUOTE=RedJenny;47545592]This game has no freaking clue what it wants to be. That's why this shat keeps happening.
It's not about bases. Then it is about bases...
My main issue with RUST right now is that playing it feels like a full time job. It is a full time job.
Not only do I have to put in tons of hours just to secure my current progress from being ganked by other players on their whim, but I have to now whack my base to stop it falling down every few hours? When am I ever going to be able to leave my base with C4 and guns to do something else? Seems never. Between decay, raids, frequent wipes and the increasing building costs (500 frags per armor block, great move that....) my game time in RUST consists of doing the same stuff over and over again. Hitting rocks, trees and trying to make a secure base. At which point the server probably wipes for the next update that adds better looking trees.
What's worse is when people shout for a server wipe 2 weeks after we've wiped already when it's not even required... like really? Get a better system ffs. If you can't play after a few weeks of building because of your framerate, upgrade! When the final game releases you're going to be screwed anyway. Wipes are not part of the plan. Stop trying to play the game on an i3 Dell Laptop.
Anyway, I thought decay was supposed to be seamless. I read the bullets on rustafied and Gary said it should sort itself out in the background. I assumed cupboards would protect your stuff so you wouldn't have to do anything. But nope, seems hitting blocks is required after all. So my new time waster in RUST. This isn't a survival game. It's an exercise in futility, it's almost like some sort of commentary on how pointless everything in life is.
Edit:
Yes I am so frustrated with rage that I spent 300+ hrs in this game because I thought it was headed somewhere. It's not. It's basically DayZ. It's never going to get out of Alpha. Not until it works out what it wants to be, and who it wants to please.[/QUOTE]
Well put, but you'll still play, wont you? :)
Even with all changes its not like we keep getting charged like GTA1,2,3,4,5,6,7,7a,10,special edition, master chief edition, etc. (at least not yet).
With all the changes and hackers, I keep finding myself coming back to a rust life of a couple of hours of nomadic journeys, battling the kos and having Rust voice/text chats. A gaming experience as good if not better than any other MMPOG. At least it is keeping me away from my movie theatre addiction. It's all mindless sloth or what I like to term LOOPIDITY!
[QUOTE=spiritchill;47545640]The issue really is the entity counts and base litter due to all the C4 annihilation. In the past a server admin would spend his waking hours cleaning base litter. Decay is a way to deal with this, but what about the active mega base? Too long of delay, and the litter remains.
I like the idea of a resource store that replenishes your base or areas of your base if resources exist. if you want to get into the costs to maintain such elaborate bases, so be it. You would be more likely to change base strategies though.[/QUOTE]
Agreed. Litter and abandoned structures need to be removed. And it shouldn't be the job of a server admin to do that. Decay is needed. And I think this is a good first step to it.
And I also like the idea of a central store of materials that keeps your base repaired. Perhaps the primary tool cupboard (and only the primary) would be a good solution. Put X amount of wood, stone and metal frags in and it depletes it over time keeping your structures intact. That would guarantee that destroyed / abandoned structures would decay away over time while actively used bases would remain.
RedJenny makes a good point though. We don't need more mechanics that keep us at our bases repairing them constantly. It's about going and and doing fun stuff like killing people, raiding, exploring, etc. There needs to be a counter to decay that doesn't require people to spend all their time bashing blocks with a hammer to keep their hard work from collapsing on them.
[QUOTE=Crunchmeister;47545731]Agreed. Litter and abandoned structures need to be removed. And it shouldn't be the job of a server admin to do that. Decay is needed. And I think this is a good first step to it.
And I also like the idea of a central store of materials that keeps your base repaired. Perhaps the primary tool cupboard (and only the primary) would be a good solution. Put X amount of wood, stone and metal frags in and it depletes it over time keeping your structures intact. That would guarantee that destroyed / abandoned structures would decay away over time while actively used bases would remain.
RedJenny makes a good point though. We don't need more mechanics that keep us at our bases repairing them constantly. It's about going and and doing fun stuff like killing people, raiding, exploring, etc. There needs to be a counter to decay that doesn't require people to spend all their time bashing blocks with a hammer to keep their hard work from collapsing on them.[/QUOTE]
This does assume the Devs are able to program this :)
Why are Canadians so damn intelligent? Must be the seal meat, beer and hockey.
One thing I did think (positive) yesterday was that every server/wipe seems like the start of a different game. Servers have little zones that pop up controlled by X groups, or areas that are friendly or not friendly and you get used to them and that becomes RUST to you. Till the wipe and things change. You end up with varying encounters with people. New enemies. It's interesting.
However. I feel it's overshadowed by how prohibitively exclusive it can be. If you are not in a large group, and/or able to put in tons of hours you're pretty screwed. You're not going to make much progress or do much more than make some twig bases and get murdered.
Like yesterday, as a naked, I got to a supply drop which had pretty much nothing in it worthwhile (in chat I actually said how much of a troll it was, having only a face mask and spoiled chicken etc). But some guy in full armor came after me and stole it. It didn't bother me too much as was just in the area, but he stole the face mask -and then bragged about it in chat. That's basically RUST in a nutshell. Letting the dicks be dicks, and calling it gameplay. It's hardcore. Manly men stuff. Roar. From Gary's sense of humour though I think this is what he's after..... I am waiting for the dick size based on STEAM ID to appear :P [url=http://southparkstudios.mtvnimages.com/images/shows/south-park/clip-thumbnails/season-14/1403/south-park-s14e03c10-the-balls-on-those-guys-4x3.jpg]Or have it based on kills so people can really express themselves properly.[/url]
This game might have sold a lot of copies off the back of Gmod. I would be interested to know how many of those are still being played though.... I'd say this game has a very niche appeal in its current state. In most games if someone is a dick, you can usually get revenge with skill. This game does not reward skill. It rewards numbers, luck (BPs) and hours played.
[QUOTE=RedJenny;47545914]One thing I did think (positive) yesterday was that every server/wipe seems like the start of a different game. Servers have little zones that pop up controlled by X groups, or areas that are friendly or not friendly and you get used to them and that becomes RUST to you. Till the wipe and things change. You end up with varying encounters with people. New enemies. It's interesting.
However. I feel it's overshadowed by how prohibitively exclusive it can be. If you are not in a large group, and/or able to put in tons of hours you're pretty screwed. You're not going to make much progress or do much more than make some twig bases and get murdered.
Like yesterday, as a naked, I got to a supply drop which had pretty much nothing in it worthwhile (in chat I actually said how much of a troll it was, having only a face mask and spoiled chicken etc). But some guy in full armor came after me and stole it. It didn't bother me too much as was just in the area, but he stole the face mask -and then bragged about it in chat. That's basically RUST in a nutshell. Letting the dicks be dicks, and calling it gameplay. It's hardcore. Manly men stuff. Roar. From Gary's sense of humour though I think this is what he's after..... I am waiting for the dick size based on STEAM ID to appear :P [url=http://southparkstudios.mtvnimages.com/images/shows/south-park/clip-thumbnails/season-14/1403/south-park-s14e03c10-the-balls-on-those-guys-4x3.jpg]Or have it based on kills so people can really express themselves properly.[/url]
This game might have sold a lot of copies off the back of Gmod. I would be interested to know how many of those are still being played though.... I'd say this game has a very niche appeal in its current state. In most games if someone is a dick, you can usually get revenge with skill. This game does not reward skill. It rewards numbers, luck (BPs) and hours played.[/QUOTE]
Sure, its niche but that's the appeal to a lot of players. I disagree that skill isn't important. Skill comes in all forms- tactics, patience, building (yes, a very important skill for all types of gameplay), and predicting your nemesis's movements. I do have a large group but I can always get some revenge when I am solo as well. I'm sure many people would agree with me, not just from the people who bought the game on the back of gmod but based on the people who are actively playing everyday. Anyways, this is all very off topic for this thread, which is about base decay.
I am so glad to hear that land blocked pieces won't decay.... I hope this includes pieces that are just otherwise inaccessible, such as under stair and blocks- something that I wouldn't necessarily call " landblocked" because they aren't landblocked, they are just inaccessible.
In the end, I don't mind making changes so I don't base with people who keep stuff on the bottom part private and then don't log in for a week, leaving pieces of the base to decay but as long as it is progress, I will be happy.
[QUOTE=RedJenny;47545914]One thing I did think (positive) yesterday was that every server/wipe seems like the start of a different game. Servers have little zones that pop up controlled by X groups, or areas that are friendly or not friendly and you get used to them and that becomes RUST to you. Till the wipe and things change. You end up with varying encounters with people. New enemies. It's interesting.
However. I feel it's overshadowed by how prohibitively exclusive it can be. If you are not in a large group, and/or able to put in tons of hours you're pretty screwed. You're not going to make much progress or do much more than make some twig bases and get murdered.
Like yesterday, as a naked, I got to a supply drop which had pretty much nothing in it worthwhile (in chat I actually said how much of a troll it was, having only a face mask and spoiled chicken etc). But some guy in full armor came after me and stole it. It didn't bother me too much as was just in the area, but he stole the face mask -and then bragged about it in chat. That's basically RUST in a nutshell. Letting the dicks be dicks, and calling it gameplay. It's hardcore. Manly men stuff. Roar. From Gary's sense of humour though I think this is what he's after..... I am waiting for the dick size based on STEAM ID to appear :P [url=http://southparkstudios.mtvnimages.com/images/shows/south-park/clip-thumbnails/season-14/1403/south-park-s14e03c10-the-balls-on-those-guys-4x3.jpg]Or have it based on kills so people can really express themselves properly.[/url]
This game might have sold a lot of copies off the back of Gmod. I would be interested to know how many of those are still being played though.... I'd say this game has a very niche appeal in its current state. In most games if someone is a dick, you can usually get revenge with skill. This game does not reward skill. It rewards numbers, luck (BPs) and hours played.[/QUOTE]
Totally agree. That's why I was complaining in another threat about how there's no drawback to being a turd in the game. No idea how they implement import/export functionality and all these other ideas without changing the troll attitude/reward.
@Insub - Agree that it takes skill, but RedJenny has an honest point; large groups always dominate. Behavior and mechanics always benefit them. The devs have never really focused on making a solo person successful at this game.
To me, decay was just one more thing that is a pain for the solo guy. A solo guy still needs a decent size base to keep things secure, but can obviously gather less supplies than a group.
At large, the issue with decay just highlights to me that, despite trello, mind42, and other dev "branch" tools, this game is still not organized. New concepts get added on a whim without considering the impact. Slow down, do some sprints in test to try these things out more thoroughly and refine first before deploying. Theory test it with what needs to be produced to keep things balanced. Do proper analysis on those dependencies. Then realign the roadmap.
[QUOTE=Denrrim;47544349]I didn't said it was harder to raid, I said it's invulnerable to melee raiding (might be vulnerable to c4, I have no idea). Most of the times, breaking a foundation helps breaking other stuff faster, that's why I said I don't agree with those kind of foundations.[/QUOTE]
My interpretation of your comment used what is called reading between the lines. Your clarification that breaking foundations helps breaking other stuff faster essentially says that it makes raiding easier.
Anyway, has anyone seen how the landlocked foundation update works?
Again though, I just wish they had implemented decay some other way. The basic fact is no one liked hammering everything, and no one is going to like hammering everything now. Why create something using the same system you decided to remove once already? Even if it is a test - just seems weird.
I also don't think is supposed to prevent large bases. Insub has a big group, and they deserve to be able to build a large base. If Garry envisions towns of people working together this isn't a very effective way to encourage that. Who the hell wants to be the village handyman?
the direction of the game is to make it what you saw in legacy. there was base building, decay, durability, pvp, pve, crafting, looting, radiation sites, KOS and teaming up; and all that made it fun. sure some mechanics have changed in their exacts, but it's all heading the same way + the things they couldn't implement into legacy due to limitations in unity/programming.
decay was turned off in quite a few servers. so was durability. it doesn't mean it shouldn't be in vanilla by default. i think people are over-reacting about the decay, it's honestly not enough of a hassle to warrant this behavior. it's almost as bad as the "rust is headed teh wrong way, i'm never gonna play anymore" that was happening about...well everything else so far.
trust that they won't fuck us over. they haven't yet. but i'll agree, by them trying to make everybody happy, it's become a little blurred.
[QUOTE=Crunchmeister;47542580]Is there a way to counter the decay of our foundations other than physically repairing them with the hammer?[/QUOTE]
It should be like legacy - if someone opens a door, or lights a fire, then it will not decay for the next 24 hours. That system worked perfectly - only abandoned buildings decayed.
Sorry, you need to Log In to post a reply to this thread.
