Back for a few hours after 3 months hiatus - Quick feedback and quiver suggestion - Rust

Hi all ;) I've following from afar Rust development, launched it again today to see for myself how much it has changed. Quick feedback. Nature feel much more diversified now, and collectables rocks and wood are better integrated. The thing with food and water is nice, I saw a significant increase in natural consumption, but not too harsh. However, animals IA is still a bit dumb. Increasing their speed THAT much is not a good idea to compensate. I've been eaten by a bear who runned easily twice as fast as the ones I hunted last winter. I would understand such speed from wolves, not bear. Also, there are still things that annoy me very much on hunt topic: arrows. 1) We really could use a true account of ammunition when bow is equipped (instead of 0/1). Although I understand the idea behind, not knowing how many arrows are left in the inventory can really be a pain when you go on long run. 2) Arrow stack. Why can these men bear stacks of 1000 wood and stone and not more than 10 arrows in one case? I would suggest increasing sensibly the stack size, or, alternatively... 3) QUIVER!!! Make it a default blueprint, costing cloth mostly, as a wearable item that can contain up to 20 arrows. - Totally coherent with traditional bow hunting concept. - Frees space in the inventory. Thanks for reading! :)

[QUOTE=Citan;50361045]Hi all ;) I've following from afar Rust development, launched it again today to see for myself how much it has changed. Quick feedback. Nature feel much more diversified now, and collectables rocks and wood are better integrated. The thing with food and water is nice, I saw a significant increase in natural consumption, but not too harsh. However, animals IA is still a bit dumb. Increasing their speed THAT much is not a good idea to compensate. I've been eaten by a bear who runned easily twice as fast as the ones I hunted last winter. I would understand such speed from wolves, not bear. Also, there are still things that annoy me very much on hunt topic: arrows. 1) We really could use a true account of ammunition when bow is equipped (instead of 0/1). Although I understand the idea behind, not knowing how many arrows are left in the inventory can really be a pain when you go on long run. 2) Arrow stack. Why can these men bear stacks of 1000 wood and stone and not more than 10 arrows in one case? I would suggest increasing sensibly the stack size, or, alternatively... 3) QUIVER!!! Make it a default blueprint, costing cloth mostly, as a wearable item that can contain up to 20 arrows. - Totally coherent with traditional bow hunting concept. - Frees space in the inventory. Thanks for reading! :)[/QUOTE] Youre actually a bit wrong bears are very fast in reallife they have not the best conditions but they can easily outrun humans.

Bears are said to be able to run up to 60 kilometers per hour, which is approximately 37 miles per hour. Usain Bolt, who has clocked nearly 28 mph in the 100-meter sprint.

I like the quiver Idea, but I love the faster and stronger wolves and bears, their AI however is still flawed. They might need another tweak in the far future if their AI is improved, they should be made like 25% more vulnerable to bullets. Footage of a bear running: [url]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ywe60Nk_dEk[/url]

[QUOTE=FowsT;50370417]They might need another tweak in the far future if their AI is improved, they should be made like 25% more vulnerable to bullets.[/QUOTE] To be honest, they should be even more vulnerable - shotgun with a slug in a wolfs head pointblank, that should kill it, infact it should tear off its head and send it to the moon, instead the wolf wants 2 more shots of that before it dies. Bears, yes it can take more punishment, but not 10+ rifle shots, seems silly.

[QUOTE=Bearen;50372095]To be honest, they should be even more vulnerable - shotgun with a slug in a wolfs head pointblank, that should kill it, infact it should tear off its head and send it to the moon, instead the wolf wants 2 more shots of that before it dies. Bears, yes it can take more punishment, but not 10+ rifle shots, seems silly.[/QUOTE] But bears are rich in resources, you can hatchet 100 animal fat off of them. Seems only right that they remain a tanky challenge.

Well, thanks for the replies. I stand my ground on bears though, they are broken in many ways... First, needing between 6 and 10 arrows to be killed is far too much, at least when you can land some in the head. 2-3 headshot arrows or 5 clean shots should be far enough (maybe it's like this already though, I admit I didn't manage to land 3 headshots on a single bear ^^). Second, Rust is already far enough from reality, so it could withstand a little bending on running speed. Bears are just far too fast for beginners, especially considering the following point. Third, their attack range is stupid. I have no other word to qualify it. You're hit from ~1-2 meters apart, before you even see the attack animation. This is plain broken. Especially since it also means they can hurt you trough basic walls (in case you wanted to erect an emergency house or so). Fourth, there are too many bears in the same area. Whether you want to stick to reality or not, having 2+ bears in the same 100 m² is potentially too much for people with only sticks and cloth (I even saw 3 bears one time, plus 2 wolves). Fifth, the "I go into rocks and climb any height instantaneously (and I go through rocks too because, you know, bears rock)" achieves ruining any hope of survival for someone not equipped for a fight. Six, it's overly painful for a player to get his body eaten with all equipment (also, reality check, I doubt bears would digest wood and metal that great). Especially when one manages to rush to the body in the 2 mn following respawn. Bears (and other predators) should take at least 5mn to fully eat the body, or the loot should be left over in a bonesack. It would give a good reason for a player to try and challenge the bear even if he's unprepared, because at least he has a chance to retrieve the loot.

Animals are broken for now and probably will not be fixed till near the game finish so it’s no point complaining about them, it’s just best to except the way they are and play accordingly for now but rember this game is not supposed to be based on real life events its just a game and it as to be balanced

i think one of the issues is the crit system (for want of a better word). a bear shot 7 times in the foot should still be alive. but if one of those arrows hits them in the head, it should do sufficient damage to negate the amazing amount of health a bear should have. for example (excuse the arbitrary numbers), a bear should probably have about 500hp compared to our 100hp. an arrow to the head should do a good 400 damage if not more, even though other locations hit by arrows do less than 50. this is because of the massive potential to kill a creature outright if you ram a pointy stick into their brain. and it should (imo) be equally deadly to players; headshots and heart shots should most likely instakill you unless you have armour on, and the armour should only reduce the damage, not negate it.

[QUOTE=Sneak2;50374264]Animals are broken for now and probably will not be fixed till near the game finish so it’s no point complaining about them, it’s just best to except the way they are and play accordingly for now but rember this game is not supposed to be based on real life events its just a game and it as to be balanced[/QUOTE] I think that is exactly the problem, you know... Bears and animal behaviour in general should be a top priority imo, because it really affects much of the survival for a few dozen hours (especially in the current BP system). Also, another annoying thing, bears are totally silent except once they attack you (whereas in my last play months ago, they made noise on a regular basis). And you have no way to know there is one in the vicinity unless you can get direct eye contact or you're lucky enough to walk on tracks. Real life bears can make some noise when they walk and mark trees to signal their territory. It should be possible for a careful player to detect bears without sight to avoid them. Especially since not all players can play with good graphic settings. ;) As it is it's really ruining the experience because you're always susceptible to a quick surprise attack in a forest. Happened to me like, twice in one hour, not in the same parts... And lost already like 10 hours of play because of such things. I'm really demotivated now, because it's really not like I've been provoking bears or wolfs. I try the best to avoid them, but not seeing them + fast run + broken attack range + deadly damage = death 95% time.

I think bears aren't eating your body or loot anymore.

Broken animals have been a sore point in Rust since the release of Experimental. They've been tweaked and adjusted a bit here and there, but are still sorely broken in almost every way. There are a lot of workarounds to the issues we encounter with animals, but it would be nice to see them fixed. Bears should be fast (because real bears are) and should be hard to kill (because real bears are). A naked shouldn't stand a chance against a bear attack. And you shouldn't be able to outrun a bear like in Legacy. But you also shouldn't have to dump half an AK mag into a bear's head to kill it. That I can totally agree with. I understand this is a game and not real life, but there's a limit to how far I like a game to stray from realism. Might as well give boars wings while we're at it, because that's about how realistic the bears are.

[QUOTE=Crunchmeister;50384318]Broken animals have been a sore point in Rust since the release of Experimental. [/QUOTE] More like Legacy..lol

[QUOTE=FowsT;50384226]I think bears aren't eating your body or loot anymore.[/QUOTE] Unfortunately they still are, just did experience it a few dozen minutes ago. ^^ [QUOTE=Crunchmeister;50384318] Bears should be fast (because real bears are) and should be hard to kill (because real bears are). A naked shouldn't stand a chance against a bear attack. And you shouldn't be able to outrun a bear like in Legacy. But you also shouldn't have to dump half an AK mag into a bear's head to kill it. That I can totally agree with. [B] I understand this is a game and not real life[/B], but there's a limit to how far I like a game to stray from realism. Might as well give boars wings while we're at it, because that's about how realistic the bears are.[/QUOTE] Bears are not THAT fast consistently in real life. They have superior spike speed but they couldn't run like that for hours. But that's not the point in fact. Bears are faster, stronger and harder than wolves. And they don't make any noise. And they go through/above rocks. A naked man should always have a chance against a bear: either he can prepare and get a kill with a bow (which was doable in Legacy, albeit with hurt generally, by shooting 3 to 6 arrows depending on headshots) or escape by quickly climbing onto a rock (which real life bear can do up to a point, but cannot climb vertically AFAIK). Or avoid it altogether because bear grunts on a regular basis, or breaks branchs on the ground when moving, or such. For the moment, it's actually quieter than a horse at the same distance. Doesn't seem "real" to me. For now, a man with only a bow has near 0% chance of killing a bear unless he's a real sharpshooter that can aim at a bear when it's only a few pixels on screen. Because it needs at least 6 arrows, usually 10 or so. Close combat with tools and weapons is also out of question unless you have all the best armor parts and 2 handed sword, considering how low damage other things do (especially tools... Hatchet should not be pitiful as a weapon, it's slicing trees very well after all). This is just no fun. Worse, bears/wolves just spawn when players are in the area, and don't care at all about other animals in the vicinity. I saw a wolf circle around 10 meters apart from a deer without any will to hunt, but when I close in the 20 meters he decided I would be the next meal. As you said, when games stray too far from reality it can break things. Well, that is a breaking point. [QUOTE=lordrushx1;50384635]More like Legacy..lol[/QUOTE] I actually liked Legacy more on this aspect because, while bears were easily avoidable, wolf packs were deadly and you could not outrun them, only run at the same speed until they decide to break (which was not ideal because you could face an obstacle slowing you down, lose yourself in unknown map portion or die of hunger/cold because you never had time to deal with that ^^). This would be a much better basis imo for animals, with a few tweaks. Make it so that bear have similar running speed to you (just a light faster so he can get to you in the end), wolves even better speed (so that they can catch up to you more quickly), bears killable with 5-6 arrows and wolves with 2 (albeit wolves travel always in pack). Also, make it so that if you drop a sound amount of raw meat on its path, a predator stops to eat it. Would make it easier for naked man to run away and would open further gameplay aspects such as preparing hunting traps.

the instant a naked has a bow with a bunch of arrows, they can't really be considered naked anymore;) especially if they are standing on a high rock the bear cannot climb, pelting a rain of arrows at him. as for spike speed, it's true. but they probably have more stamina than an average human, or at least equal to them. they don't need to run at full speed for hours, just long enough to catch the soft pink thing that tastes good/that hit it with a rock.

Guys, I totally agree to the fact that the bears are really hard to kill. With the new XP system I played for the first time on vanilla and I was really having a hard time because of the bears. I got killed like 5 times a day (within 3 hours of gameplay a day). Most of the times they were under water and I was passing the water to get on the other side. At that certain moment you can't do anything about it. Just seeing your stuff vanish after 5 minutes. That is really sad! But there certainly is a way to fight bears and wolves. Wolves aren't that hard when you have a hatchet. Just go into the fight and cover yourself after killing the wolf. But bears are maybe that easy. As soon as you spot a bear or you get attacked by a bear, make a foundation which is high, but low enough to jump on. The only thing you need is to take a bow with you, approx. 10 arrows, 150 wood and a building plan. Every time I go outside, I take this with me. It is really easy to set up a foundation as soon as you spot one/flee one. Just stand on the foundation and the bear stands there waiting for his dead! There is only one "BUT". That is when you are near a rad town/warehouse or another one his base. You're not privileged to build a foundation there. So whenever you come near those points, be aware! I usually start to investigate up to where I can build a foundation. Than I screen the area for people and bears/wolves. If I see an animal I build myself a foundation on the border of the blocked zone and start shooting arrows. When the animal is killed and the area is clean, it is fine to walk further! It really is not that hard. But yeah, the animals certainly need some attention, because it is unbelievable how bears and wolves are amphibians in Rust and can survive minutes of being underwater. Next to it is a shame that they can walk through houses just like ghosts! But that certainly will be fixed some day.

IF you don't have a building plan with you and you encounter a bear, you gonna have a bad time.

FWIW - Bears and wolves _do_ make noise. It's a low frequency walking sound -- very "basie". I wear headphones and in almost all the weather and sound conditions you can hear it before the bear or wolf is visible.

[QUOTE=lordrushx1;50384635]More like Legacy..lol[/QUOTE] nah legacy was good in that aspect, in fact in every single aspect. one of the best games i have ever played, and the best times i had with gaming. except hacking.

[QUOTE=Icemen40;50388424]Guys, I totally agree to the fact that the bears are really hard to kill. With the new XP system I played for the first time on vanilla and I was really having a hard time because of the bears. I got killed like 5 times a day (within 3 hours of gameplay a day). Most of the times they were under water and I was passing the water to get on the other side. At that certain moment you can't do anything about it. Just seeing your stuff vanish after 5 minutes. That is really sad! But there certainly is a way to fight bears and wolves. Wolves aren't that hard when you have a hatchet. Just go into the fight and cover yourself after killing the wolf. But bears are maybe that easy. As soon as you spot a bear or you get attacked by a bear, make a foundation which is high, but low enough to jump on. The only thing you need is to take a bow with you, approx. 10 arrows, 150 wood and a building plan. Every time I go outside, I take this with me. It is really easy to set up a foundation as soon as you spot one/flee one. Just stand on the foundation and the bear stands there waiting for his dead! [/QUOTE] That's closely what I do everytime I can (or rather, I build a square 2x2 hut in some places so I can have some relax space when I go far away). But, can you plz tell me in what aspect is this supposed to be fun? Basically bear hunt is a ternary situation. a) you're naked (sorry guys, not having full armor IS being naked) and surprised by a bear = insta-death. b) you're naked but you had time to identify and locate a bear = boring win. c) you have an automatic firearm and protection or syringes = potentially fun and thrilling hunt even when you're surprised. So, there is a situation which is fun, so everything is right? No. Because you will spend many many hours before you can afford to craft weapons and armor and risk them outside every run. With that said, before any other change is made to predators, simply fixing the bug that allows them to insta-climb any height and go through rocks would resove around 80% of the frustrating/unjustified deaths. EDIT: Note to Rusters: actually bears can attack through twig walls ("realism" lol) and sometimes also go through twig foundations ("...") so the best and simplest way if you're sure on your feet is a plain foundation with stairs on it. Or, if you really want to be extra sure you're safe (never saw an animal "take" the stairs but I admit I didn't stage the experience so maybe they can) keep a ladder hatch with you. Foundation > 1 wall > Floor frame. Probably the lowest lossy solution, but requires to be good with selection if you're in a hurry (as in "bear spotted me before I spotted it") and occupies one more of precious slot inventory. On the contrary, building only 1 foundation with window walls around means you just secured the bear's next meals since its attack will reach you whatever the side. ^^

yes epileptic, super athletic jumping animals need fixing. Hate it when i see every animal going round in circles likes its brain damaged also. I like that bears are strong though, anyone see leo decaprio get fucked up by that bear in reverent lol.