Here is something I haven't seen discussed on the facepunch forums much; I think it would make an interesting topic.
I'm sure that there are some gmod communities out there who actually cut a hefty profit from running servers and I was thinking is this wrong or right in people's eyes?
Seeing as 95% of the game actually belongs to valve (at least all the player models, a great deal of textures etc) would it be right for someone to profit off of others work?
Stuff like the legal side (EULA etc) would surely be interesting.
And although they are not simply charging people to access their servers, they are running services to make a profit (i.e. by offering paid admin and not simple donations); I have no doubt in my mind that some of the larger communities would vanish overnight if they weren't cutting a serious profit.
During my research I have discovered some communities have taken this to extreme lengths (i.e. registering company names and paying tax on the money they earn).
Sounds nefarious
My community [url]www.tpsgaming.com[/url]
Earned around $2000 this month.
Its easy to make money off the gmod community and trust me lots of other community's make a lot more then me.
You just cant destroy your server doing it.
I had to remove a lot of updates because I realized my server was just becoming money hungry and loosing people.
Not to mention I don't believe why this would be wrong for community's to make money, If they made none how would they pay for server bills.
[QUOTE=jkropp;37879638]My community [url]www.tpsgaming.com[/url]
Earns around 1.5k - 2k thousand a month.
Its easy to make money off the gmod community and trust me lots of other community's make a lot more then me.
You just cant destroy your server doing it.
I had to remove a lot of updates because I realized my server was just becoming money hungry and loosing people.
Not to mention I don't believe why this would be wrong for community's to make money, If they made none how would they pay for server bills.[/QUOTE]
First of all, thanks for being open about your community.
With that amount though, you're not paying costs--you're making a profit.
I have paid for a dedicated server for myself and some friends for the past year and a half. It has cost me at least $1500 and I've never asked for a dime from anyone. IMHO it is wrong to do anything more than break even with server costs.
If you were paying $1500-2000 a month in server costs you could easily have access to 40 dedicated cores on dedicated servers (no VPS) with gigabit ports with 8 GB / 4 cores.
I don't think it's about breaking even... some communities literally break even 5 times over, which is the problem.
[QUOTE=Prince Obama;37879655]First of all, thanks for being open about your community.
With that amount though, you're not paying costs--you're making a profit.
I have paid for a dedicated server for myself and some friends for the past year and a half. It has cost me at least $1500 and I've never asked for a dime from anyone. IMHO it is wrong to do anything more than break even with server costs.
If you were paying $1500-2000 a month in server costs you could easily have access to 40 dedicated cores on dedicated servers (no VPS) with gigabit ports with 8 GB / 4 cores.[/QUOTE]
I really dont see a problem making profit.
I have owned this community for over 2 years and if I was not making profit it would not be running still.
I try to give a decent amount of money back to the community, For one I pay 200$ a month for a dedicated box ( Its a ripoff but I dont really care )
I hire people for coding I spend a decent amount on that and yes, The left overs go to me and I will buy some nice things for my self I dont really see a problem with that.
As long as you care about your community and you try not to get 1000% money hungry.
[QUOTE=jkropp;37879670]
As long as you care about your community and you try not to get 1000% money hungry.[/QUOTE]
Good luck, there are communities that give shit service even though they get a ton of revenue...
[QUOTE=jkropp;37879670]I really dont see a problem making profit.
I have owned this community for over 2 years and if I was not making profit it would not be running still.
I try to give a decent amount of money back to the community, For one I pay 200$ a month for a dedicated box ( Its a ripoff but I dont really care )
I hire people for coding I spend a decent amount on that and yes, The left overs go to me and I will but some nice things for my self I dont really see a problem with that.
As long as you care about your community and you try not to get 1000% money hungry.[/QUOTE]
Do you sell admin rights though? I couldn't tell from your website.
No I sell VIP/Respected
Selling admin rights destroys community's and just creates a giant shitstorm.
[QUOTE=jkropp;37879729]No I sell VIP/Respected
Selling admin rights destroys community's and just creates a giant shitstorm.[/QUOTE]
Oh ok, I have to say I really respect your decision from that point. It really shits me when communities offer paid admin.
I will say a while ago I did sell admin, Then all the conflict started to happen and I told my self I would never do it again.
yea, that really does not work at all. It just leads to idiots with authority, thinking they can be disrespectful just because they bought a plastic shield...
[QUOTE=Prince Obama;37879655]First of all, thanks for being open about your community.
With that amount though, you're not paying costs--you're making a profit.
I have paid for a dedicated server for myself and some friends for the past year and a half. It has cost me at least $1500 and I've never asked for a dime from anyone. IMHO it is wrong to do anything more than break even with server costs.
If you were paying $1500-2000 a month in server costs you could easily have access to 40 dedicated cores on dedicated servers (no VPS) with gigabit ports with 8 GB / 4 cores.[/QUOTE]
I've never denied to anyone who asks that our servers do make money. However we do pay over $1000 monthly for our services. I've made a public quote once when someone asked detailing our expenses. I'm not doing it again as I'm lazy, but we have 6 dedicated servers in NYC and 1 in UK. Although the 1 in UK costs 210 British pounds sterling = 339.0870 US dollars alone since hardware firewall systems over here are very pricey. If it was just about hosting a basic gmod server prices would be so insanely cheap, however it's not due to idiots who DDoS servers. So many people offer to pay for admin promotions or to be unbanned you could make so much insane money from taking those sort of 'bribes', but we do draw the line firmly at important places. The fact of is it right to sell admin for a service you run is ultimately the owners decision. If people don't agree with it then they are not forced to play on those communities. However, it's important that all communities draw lines where they think is morally applicable and stick to those lines. So do we make money? Yes, we do. But have I ever once cut corners on hosting costs just to make more money? No, never. We buy what we need and when we need it. We've the best hardware at every location we host at. Regardless of costs (to an extent ofc). We also keep a healthy balance ready to cover all emergencies.
Selling a basic admin level might be wrong, it might not be wrong. The decision really is up to the community. I'd like to say we're not money hungry, we could sell so much more but don't, for example once someone abuses they are blacklisted for all purchases, we don't go "Oh, you abused PAY AGAIN BIATCH!". We have our limitations. But that is your opinion and one you're allowed, however you shouldn't force your opinion on others or troll a community that shares a different opinion than you.
[QUOTE=Prince Obama;37879655]First of all, thanks for being open about your community.
With that amount though, you're not paying costs--you're making a profit.
I have paid for a dedicated server for myself and some friends for the past year and a half. It has cost me at least $1500 and I've never asked for a dime from anyone. IMHO it is wrong to do anything more than break even with server costs.
If you were paying $1500-2000 a month in server costs you could easily have access to 40 dedicated cores on dedicated servers (no VPS) with gigabit ports with 8 GB / 4 cores.[/QUOTE]
Why is it wrong? I really don't understand. It's not like you're forcing anyone to give money to you.
[QUOTE=Pantho;37881374]I've never denied to anyone who asks that our servers do make money. However we do pay over $1000 monthly for our services. I've made a public quote once when someone asked detailing our expenses. I'm not doing it again as I'm lazy, but we have 6 dedicated servers in NYC and 1 in UK. Although the 1 in UK costs 210 British pounds sterling = 339.0870 US dollars alone since hardware firewall systems over here are very pricey. If it was just about hosting a basic gmod server prices would be so insanely cheap, however it's not due to idiots who DDoS servers. So many people offer to pay for admin promotions or to be unbanned you could make so much insane money from taking those sort of 'bribes', but we do draw the line firmly at important places. The fact of is it right to sell admin for a service you run is ultimately the owners decision. If people don't agree with it then they are not forced to play on those communities. However, it's important that all communities draw lines where they think is morally applicable and stick to those lines. So do we make money? Yes, we do. But have I ever once cut corners on hosting costs just to make more money? No, never. We buy what we need and when we need it. We've the best hardware at every location we host at. Regardless of costs (to an extent ofc, I'm not going to go collocate an e31290 ;)). We also keep a healthy balance ready to cover all emergencies.
Selling a basic admin level might be wrong, it might not be wrong. The decision really is up to the community. I'd like to say we're not money hungry, we could sell so much more but don't, for example once someone abuses they are blacklisted for all purchases, we don't go "Oh, you abused PAY AGAIN BIATCH! We have our limitations. But that is your opinion and one you're allowed, however you shouldn't force your opinion on others or troll a community that shares a different opinion than you.[/QUOTE]
Selling admin just gives you shitty admins. Doubt you can really argue with that.
[QUOTE=Assault_Trooper;37881573]
Selling admin just gives you shitty admins. Doubt you can really argue with that.[/QUOTE]
It gives you some shitty admins, it also gives you a LOT of admins. And a way for people to prove themselves. It's a mixed system, I don't think I've ever said I thought the system is flawless. It has major downsides along with upsides, not just money based. We don't hide the fact we sell it and I don't see it as wrong, just a choice we make.
I just put up an announcement saying that you can become moderator if you go through an easy process. I've had a lot of people apply and never denied anyone, I give everyone a chance at moderator unless it's obviously they'll abuse it. If they do well, then they can get promoted to admin.
I don't like the idea of selling/donating to get admin. I just create a VIP rank with extra stuff but nothing overpowered (like pay to win kind of stuff). Best for everyone that way in my opinion.
[QUOTE=Pantho;37881611]It gives you some shitty admins, it also gives you a LOT of admins. And a way for people to prove themselves. It's a mixed system, I don't think I've ever said I thought the system is flawless. It has major downsides along with upsides, not just money based. We don't hide the fact we sell it and I don't see it as wrong, just a choice we make.[/QUOTE]
No, it just gives you shitty admins, your servers are walking talking proof of it.
I think it's alright for some servers to make money, as long as they can control themselves. Problem is, people are greedy, and a lot of good communities wind up killing themselves by getting too greedy and making it almost impossible to play without donating.
Hell, even some of your root administrators are shitty and abuse, you seriously need a reality check about playing on paid admin servers, try playing yours as a regular player, and you'll see why it causes problems.
[QUOTE=Pantho;37881611]It gives you some shitty admins, it also gives you a LOT of admins. And a way for people to prove themselves. It's a mixed system, I don't think I've ever said I thought the system is flawless. It has major downsides along with upsides, not just money based. We don't hide the fact we sell it and I don't see it as wrong, just a choice we make.[/QUOTE]
Most of the people that buy admin are going to be the type who are arrogant and abusive.
[QUOTE=A_Pigeon;37886927]No, it just gives you shitty admins, your servers are walking talking proof of it.
I think it's alright for some servers to make money, as long as they can control themselves. Problem is, people are greedy, and a lot of good communities wind up killing themselves by getting too greedy and making it almost impossible to play without donating.
Hell, even some of your root administrators are shitty and abuse, you seriously need a reality check about playing on paid admin servers, try playing yours as a regular player, and you'll see why it causes problems.[/QUOTE]
I think we all know by now that ByB won't change anything unless it improves the amount of money they make.
"Hey Pantho! I'll take a 100 pack voucher for spawning props on RP #4 please!"
"No problem, that'll be $19.99 thanks!"
Off topic: Looking at some of the biased criticism directed towards the ByB Community, I see that it all comes from users banned from the community do to their abusive/mingy nature. A heap of trolls that I doubt any serious community would welcome and allow to stay, because they're not there for the sake of roleplaying or socializing within the community, but only to extirpate the users running it. Looking back at previous discussions with involved users, they're just butthurt because they're convinced that simply due to them purchasing Garry's Mod = They're free to do whatever they want and nobody should be able to ban/tell them what to do. Spoiled little youngsters.
On topic:
The issue regarding profiting from something where the balance of account is primarily influenced by involved third parties contributing can and has been discussed for many years. The same discussion has been applied between government-run or private-run channels such as geriatric care, schools etc, but also within companies in their choice of marketing. Cutting profit can be considered a great thing for the community, or a morally flawed decision, depends on what perspective you look at it.
However more on that later;
In the case of the ByB Community, we've always had the first regular administrator position being a purchasable one. Criticism and arguments against it have been that there will be idiots, abusers, "kids who only purchase to abuse", "you cannot trust everyone being able to ban people" are some of the few comments I have encountered when discussing the matter with members of the community. Now first thing's first, The ByB Community is an open, family-friendly community. We are not a clan, guild or club with regulations as to who can and is allowed to join and play on our servers. The community is made up by its members, thus the responsibility also lies on everyone in the community that wishes for it to remain at a good standard to help out. We've had abusive administrators, both from permanently banning a lot of people within 30 minutes up to noclip abusers, physgun abusers, admin command abusers etc. We've had any form of abuse happen on our servers, and they've all been held accountable for them.
However, as a result of our regular administrator rank being purchasable as well as us being a community, we've setup a ticket-system, where members of the community can help us deal with abusive administrators, because higher ranked administrators cannot be everywhere all the time. Not only does this improve our relations with the users and back, but we have often promoted users simply due to them being very active in keeping the servers and the community alive and improving, be this through assistance, reports, you name it. Using our established ticket system, users can report either player abuse that has gone by unseen, administrators that are abusing their rank to either unfairly punish or create an unfair advantage for themselves or simply being able to apply for an unban request, i.e. a second chance. The ticket system requires sufficient evidence when it comes to reports as we want to prevent a mass of workload based solely on empty reports (i.e. not backed-up).
With that mentioned, we've actually had more great purchased-administrators prove themselves as a result of their dedication and thus being promoted rather than the amount of abusive administrators who are dealt with fairly quickly depending on the situation. We offer regular administrators three warnings, upon the third warning, they're blacklisted and stripped off of their rank.
Since we are a community, and we're giving everyone a fair chance to grow with us and become a more familiar part of it, of course there will be a few who will try to abuse our initial trust, thus the ticket system and very active undercover higher ranked administrators.
It is ultimately up to the community owner to decide how one wishes to progress with his or her community. The lines are drawn and decisions are made by the owner. If one does not like it, one can complain and move to another server/community in hope of finding something that suits them better. We've never condoned abuse, bribes or general disruption and destruction of the community and the members roleplaying. But it isn't neither a full on democracy, the owner decides ultimately what is done and where the community stands, so debating what is morally justified and questionable there is technically out of place. If you do not like it, you are not forced to stay.
As for communities cutting profit;
The matter can be viewed from multiple perspectives, be it that the community can turn greedy and money-hungry or that this could provide a window of opportunity for the community to flip those profits into improvements and expansion of the community. The ByB Community, as is discussed in this thread, has been cutting some profit from the purchases made within the community, be this Supporter-Rank, purchase of RP-money or purchase of administrator rank (most of which are purchased by users who in turn use it to either help themselves rid of rulebreakers or to simply help the community out, and a few abusers who are dealt with as a result of a very active community). ByB Community now runs one MC Tekkit server with 40 slots, two TTT Gmod Servers with 24 slots each (one in UK and one in the US), two zombie RP Gmod servers (One with 26 slots and the other with 44), one serious RP server with 32 player slots, and six ByB-edited DarkRP Gmod servers with 34 player slots each. We also have a TS3 server with 30 player slots. All of the servers have active and great (expensive) hardware firewall protections to help prevent and stop DDoS attacks on our servers that happen oh every so often due to my previous comment: [I]"they're just butthurt because they're convinced that simply due to them purchasing Garry's Mod = They're free to do whatever they want and nobody should be able to ban/tell them what to do. Spoiled little youngsters."[/I]
THAT, is where the profits have taken ByB, not to mention that we've had CS:GO servers, BattleField 3 Servers all ready and standing on first day of release of the game (though abandoned due to no active players on those games in the community). We've tried out different types of gamemodes for Gmod, had an ARMA 2 Domination server tried out but put on ice due to insufficient time from my part in order to maintain, script and moderate the server (it's a pain in the ass even for old regular dev's of major ARMA2 mods, let alone me).
As Pantho mentioned, we have a healthy balance in case of emergencies, always prepared to improve, expand and repair our servers, because it's not only about making due, but keeping the Community running. Not to mention that [B][U]A LOT[/U][/B] of our personal time, has been and is put into the community by its owner, its higher ranked administrators and coders that you're overlooking by only focusing on hardware costs. Running the community is more than a hobby, it is a third-party job. We have responsibilities, especially after having grown this big. Profit isn't necessarily something bad, hell in the case of ByB, it has helped keep the community grow, improve and stay motivated by being able to do these things with the assistance of our members. We do not pocket the money, as it seems that is what you're trying to direct to with your ignorant criticism.
Also, I'm a root administrator at the ByB Community, and I've been with this community since '09, short time after its initial launch on Gmod. I myself started off with my first administrator being given to me due to my very active reports of player abusers back in '09, and then later paid for Supporter. We've always appreciated and kept users that are doing good for the community in mind when promotions are considered. We wouldn't have lasted this long, with this many members, had we been abusive, money-pocketing arrogant assholes. Especially considering the fact that the members are what makes the community. And once again, so far the only ones complaining about the community are kids that have been banned fro
[I]"The ticket system requires sufficient evidence when it comes to reports as we want to prevent a mass of workload based solely on empty reports (i.e. not backed-up)."[/I]
[B]Ok Deon, so where is the proof then?[/B]
You come in here and write a huge reply to try and show everyone you are full of intellect but you cannot hold yourself even to the same standards you expect of your paid admins.
The simple fact is, all of the admins (even the roots and supers) regularly abuse and you will never do anything about it.
All you do is regularly go on the server and permanently ban people with little to no reason and say "no unban ever", because in your view your opinion in is infallible--guess what, it is fallible and your entire approach to being an administrator is a farce.
You also perm ban players for 'cursing' when you do the exact same thing to people time and time again.
Again, [b]where is the proof then?[/b]
I know what the answer is! You don't actually have any!
And I know why this has generated so many replies from Pantho and you, [B]that's because it worries you[/B].
[u]Everyone[/u] knows the only reason ByB is run is for profit--this has been long established--why you would try and come in here and try to deny it at all absolutely amazes me.
[QUOTE=pokemonman;37923694][I]And I know why this has generated so many replies from Pantho and you, [B]that's because it worries you[/B].
[U]Everyone[/U] knows the only reason ByB is run is for profit--this has been long established--why you would try and come in here and try to deny it at all absolutely amazes me.[/QUOTE]
I don't think deon meant to imply ByB doesn't turn a profit, he phrased part of it wrong but he also said we did cut a profit so not sure what you're rambling on about. Also this thread isn't ByB related, I reply here because it's actually an interesting topic. At least Deon kept his post on topic, it was a very well written post that counted for some of the benefits and negative facts of a gaming community having a balanced comercial system. This is not another fucking thread for you to rage about how unfair your ban was on ByB and Facepunch and how the whole world is against you, bla bla bla.
[B]You have an EXTREME talent for always playing the victim and not taking account of your own actions. Grow the fuck up.[/B]
Signed,
Pantho
The obsessive love of your dreams.
[QUOTE=Pantho;37923887]I don't think deon meant to imply ByB doesn't turn a profit, he phrased it wrong. I've never said it didn't.
And this thread isn't ByB related? I reply here because it's actually an interesting topic, however Nigerian you have been banned from these forum over a dozen times now.
At least Deon kept his post on topic, this is not another fucking thread for you to rage about how unfair your ban was on ByB and Facepunch and how the whole world is against you, bla bla bla.
[B]You have an EXTREME talent for always playing the victim and not taking account of your own actions. Grow the fuck up.[/B]
Signed,
Pantho, the obsessive love of your dreams.[/QUOTE]
So Deon comes in here and spouts a 30 page memoir about how evidence needs to be provided yet will provide [B][U]ZERO[/U][/B] evidence of his own and you act like that isn't a problem?
I got permbanned recently for criticizing the facepunch admins in a fair manner--they deleted my post which criticized them while leaving up every other post I had made. So I will disregard their bans because they are completely biased and unwilling to take criticism.
EDIT: I also want to add that I don't think its that big of a deal for a community to cut a profit, but the way you guys do it (by selling admin) is the wrong way of going about it, and you have a lot of high up admins who have none of the skills required of their positions.
[editline]5th October 2012[/editline]
Also:
"With that mentioned, we've actually had more great purchased-administrators prove themselves as a result of their dedication and thus being promoted rather than the amount of abusive administrators who are dealt with fairly quickly depending on the situation. We offer regular administrators three warnings, upon the third warning, they're blacklisted and stripped off of their rank."
This is bullshit.
[URL="http://sban.bybservers.co.uk/index.php?p=banlist&searchText=admin+abuse&Submit="]Search ByB's sbans for "Admin abuse" and it has 586 results.[/URL]
[B]586 bans[/B]. And you're telling me that more purchased admins have proved themselves than have been punished?
Don't think so.
EDIT 2: [i]"But it isn't neither a full on democracy, the owner decides ultimately what is done and where the community stands, so debating what is morally justified and questionable there is technically out of place. If you do not like it, you are not forced to stay."[/i]
You have obviously failed to grasp some of this argument Deon--how can it be morally right for a server owner to profit of a game to which he holds no rights?
EDIT 3: [i]"All of the servers have active and great (expensive) hardware firewall protections to help prevent and stop DDoS attacks on our servers that happen oh every so often due to my previous comment: "they're just butthurt because they're convinced that simply due to them purchasing Garry's Mod = They're free to do whatever they want and nobody should be able to ban/tell them what to do. Spoiled little youngsters."[/i]
Actually DDoS usually comes about because admins treat players like shit--for example Pantho permbanned around 15 seperate people from his teamspeak server the other day when no one had spoken a word beyond hello. Do I agree with DDoS? No. Do I think people deserve it when they go to that extent of treating people like shit? Yes.
You make no sense whatsoever Pokemonman. Not entirely sure what it is you are on about in regards to your request of proof. Proof of what exactly? I was describing our ticket system. Please, collect your thoughts and express them accordingly before your brain overloads. And yes, me presenting negative and positive aspects of our experience within the ByB Community in regards to profiting and administrator rank being purchaseable, as a response to your little butthurt ragefit because you refuse to abide by the server rules, is me being "full of intellect". Don't worry, once you get out of puberty, and hopefully manage to asses your thoughts without going bald from rage, as well as find something useful to do with your life, we'll be able to converse. Hopefully.
Perhaps I should lower my standards, despite my hard work, to lower myself to your level and write like this: "u jelly brah for mah 1337 englesh skilz? LAWL U MAD BRO???"
Do you understand that better? Do you feel like you can relate now, be homies and bro's that bump fists, without having envy and rage overwhelm you? Get your shit together, kiddo. With an attitude like that, you'll be (hopefully, but doubtful) flipping burgers while living with your parents until you retire and purchase the apartment after your parents have passed, only to fade away in dirty ketchup stained rags and filled up with cholesterol because mommy's not around there to feed and clean up after you. And that's me being optimistic about your future based on the way you deal with the world and shit that you yourself caused and got yourself into.
Anyways, this is turning way too off topic, if you wish to continue this conversation, I'll kindly ask you to fuck off. If you wish to report me with proof of abuse, do so through the proper channels.
[QUOTE=pokemonman;37923908]So Deon comes in here and spouts a 30 page memoir about how evidence needs to be provided yet will provide [B][U]ZERO[/U][/B] evidence of his own and you act like that isn't a problem?
I got permbanned recently for criticizing the facepunch admins in a fair manner--they deleted my post which criticized them while leaving up every other post I had made. So I will disregard their bans because they are completely biased and unwilling to take criticism.
EDIT: I also want to add that I don't think its that big of a deal for a community to cut a profit, but the way you guys do it (by selling admin) is the wrong way of going about it, and you have a lot of high up admins who have none of the skills required of their positions.
[editline]5th October 2012[/editline]
Also:
"With that mentioned, we've actually had more great purchased-administrators prove themselves as a result of their dedication and thus being promoted rather than the amount of abusive administrators who are dealt with fairly quickly depending on the situation. We offer regular administrators three warnings, upon the third warning, they're blacklisted and stripped off of their rank."
This is bullshit.
[URL="http://sban.bybservers.co.uk/index.php?p=banlist&searchText=admin+abuse&Submit="]Search ByB's sbans for "Admin abuse" and it has 586 results.[/URL]
[B]586 bans[/B]. And you're telling me that more purchased admins have proved themselves than have been punished?
Don't think so.[/QUOTE]
Yes, having demoted 197 (out of many [U][B]many[/B][/U] more) administrators since '09, is a success. Especially considering the fact that we've had plenty of great administrators, many of whom have been promoted, but not to mention helped us evolve and expand as a community by purchasing admin as well as supporter and RP-money. That weighs a lot more than the abusers that swiftly get demoted and blacklisted as a result of a successful and great community that has arisen in the past years. You were welcomed, but you didn't seem to enjoy fair-roleplay, abiding by the rules or even respecting anyone for that matter. Thus, you are no longer wanted or welcome. Acting out like you're a victim despite your own idiocy is a move of a coward, nothing more.
Turning profit as a community all depends on the organisation within it. It can turn bad, it can turn good. However, nothing bad ever lasts. Greed is toppled and communities depend on their players. I doubt our long success and growth as a community is a result of us being extremely abusive, money-pocketing "bullshiters" as you seem to try to express in a baseless manner.
[QUOTE=Deon;37924623]You make no sense whatsoever Pokemonman. Not entirely sure what it is you are on about in regards to your request of proof. Proof of what exactly? I was describing our ticket system. Please, collect your thoughts and express them accordingly before your brain overloads. And yes, me presenting negative and positive aspects of our experience within the ByB Community in regards to profiting and administrator rank being purchaseable, as a response to your little butthurt ragefit because you refuse to abide by the server rules, is me being "full of intellect". Don't worry, once you get out of puberty, and hopefully manage to asses your thoughts without going bald from rage, as well as find something useful to do with your life, we'll be able to converse. Hopefully.
Perhaps I should lower my standards, despite my hard work, to lower myself to your level and write like this: "u jelly brah for mah 1337 englesh skilz? LAWL U MAD BRO???"
Do you understand that better? Do you feel like you can relate now, be homies and bro's that bump fists, without having envy and rage overwhelm you? Get your shit together, kiddo. With an attitude like that, you'll be (hopefully, but doubtful) flipping burgers while living with your parents until you retire and purchase the apartment after your parents have passed, only to fade away in dirty ketchup stained rags and filled up with cholesterol because mommy's not around there to feed and clean up after you. And that's me being optimistic about your future based on the way you deal with the world and shit that you yourself caused and got yourself into.
Anyways, this is turning way too off topic, if you wish to continue this conversation, I'll kindly ask you to fuck off. If you wish to report me with proof of abuse, do so through the proper channels.
Yes, having demoted 197 (out of many [U][B]many[/B][/U] more) administrators since '09, is a success. Especially considering the fact that we've had plenty of great administrators, many of whom have been promoted, but not to mention helped us evolve and expand as a community by purchasing admin as well as supporter and RP-money. That weighs a lot more than the abusers that swiftly get demoted and blacklisted as a result of a successful and great community that has arisen in the past years. You were welcomed, but you didn't seem to enjoy fair-roleplay, abiding by the rules or even respecting anyone for that matter. Thus, you are no longer wanted or welcome. Acting out like you're a victim despite your own idiocy is a move of a coward, nothing more.
Turning profit as a community all depends on the organisation within it. It can turn bad, it can turn good. However, nothing bad ever lasts. Greed is toppled and communities depend on their players. I doubt our long success and growth as a community is a result of us being extremely abusive, money-pocketing "bullshiters" as you seem to try to express in a baseless manner.[/QUOTE]
Wow that opening paragraph feels like Reddit in here. You said you've had more positive experiences with admins than negative. I would be curious as the amount of active (non grandfathered accounts from 3 years ago that are never used) that still remain admin.
[b]"You were welcomed, but you didn't seem to enjoy [U]fair-roleplay[/U], abiding by the [U]rules[/U] or even [U]respecting[/U] anyone for that matter."[/b]
Like all your other players...
[video=youtube;gQDZcg7Oo64]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gQDZcg7Oo64[/video]
[QUOTE=pokemonman;37924735]Wow that opening paragraph feels like Reddit in here. You said you've had more positive experiences with admins than negative. I would be curious as the amount of active (non grandfathered accounts from 3 years ago that are never used) that still remain admin.
[b]"You were welcomed, but you didn't seem to enjoy [U]fair-roleplay[/U], abiding by the [U]rules[/U] or even [U]respecting[/U] anyone for that matter."[/b]
Like all your other players...
[video=youtube;gQDZcg7Oo64]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gQDZcg7Oo64[/video][/QUOTE]
Holy shit people actually play on that server and then give money to the owner?
I don't see what the problem with byb making money off of little kids, their servers suck and you don't have to join if you don't want to.
[QUOTE=mikesdav;37925813]I don't see what the problem with byb making money off of little kids, their servers suck and you don't have to join if you don't want to.[/QUOTE]
Yeah but its important people are aware of what they are getting into. I haven't played on ByB in many months (and yes, I can play if I want to) but I am still proceeding with my campaign for public knowledge of the full aspects of being a ByB community member.
[QUOTE=darksoul69;37925551]Holy shit people actually play on that server and then give money to the owner?[/QUOTE]
I'm more disappointed what was going on there because of total lack of any attempt to roleplay anything. "Oh shit, that's Chuck Norris up there!" was the closest thing I saw, although the video is probably more than a little biased.
[QUOTE=darksoul69;37925551]Holy shit people actually play on that server and then give money to the owner?[/QUOTE]
The video is taken out of perspective, by a guy using hacks no less, the video was a bunch of people playing around in RP5 spawn. Rare occasion.
[QUOTE=pokemonman;37925960]Yeah but its important people are aware of what they are getting into. I haven't played on ByB in many months (and yes, I can play if I want to) but I am still proceeding with my campaign for public knowledge of the full aspects of being a ByB community member.[/QUOTE]
Also as I said this was a decent topic until you had to make it server specific, can it not get back on topic? I'm not trying to change it away from ByB flaming, I couldn't give a monkeys about that. Everyone who has said anything negative is actually either a banned player (By a superadmin, not purchased) someone who has actually bought admin and been demoted for abuse - Which is insanely fucking hypocritical to post about that in this thread, complaining at a server selling admin - because you bought admin and abused with it 0_o. Get back on topic tbh.
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