Is selling of gamemodes considered illegal? - Garry's Mod

I know some people are doing this, and I also though that selling valve's dll's are illegal... so does that mean you're breaking laws for deriving from code you didn't write (sandbox) and selling dll's illegally? Are Valve's DLL's still classified as ones made by users to be used as modules? I'm really confused here as I thought all gamemodes were supposed to be not commerically sold.

A DLL file is made in Source SDK, sometimes. C. Source SDK. Your Subscription(s) may contain access to the Valve software development kit (the "SDK") for the computer game engine used in Half-Life 2 and other compatible Valve products (the "Source Engine"). You may use, reproduce and modify the SDK on a non-commercial basis solely to develop a modified game (a "Mod") for Half-Life 2 or other Valve products compatible with and using the Source Engine. You may reproduce and distribute the Mod in object code form, solely to licensed end users of Half-Life 2 or other compatible Valve products, provided that the Mod is made publicly available and distributed without charge on a non-commercial basis If you would like to use the Source SDK or a Mod for a commercial purpose or activity, please contact Valve at [email]sourceengine@valvesoftware.com[/email].

Why the fuck would anybody buy a gamemode? That's ridiculously stupid. And Deaded got it right, it's against the EULA.

[QUOTE=Arachnidus;27378525]Why the fuck would anybody buy a gamemode? That's ridiculously stupid. And Deaded got it right, it's against the EULA.[/QUOTE] I completely agree. Kuro for example, sells gamemodes for over $200. Why anybody would buy them, is beyond me.

[QUOTE=deaded38;27378574]Kuro for example, sells gamemodes for over $200.[/QUOTE] Oh come on.

I heard about a potential suit against someone selling a gamemode, but it's not going to go anywhere if the seller is doing it illegally. Thanks guys.

[QUOTE=Calmon;27378672]I heard about a potential suit against someone selling a gamemode, but it's not going to go anywhere if the seller is doing it illegally. Thanks guys.[/QUOTE] I also heard the Boogeyman hides in your closet.

It's not illegal but it is on a legal gray line that works both ways. Since Lua Gamemodes aren't actually touched in the EULA and Garry has stated he doesn't give a crap of whether you sell it or not it means he's actually free from having the only people who COULD target him on a suit out of the way. But on the other hand, it means Kuromiku or anyone who sells gamemodes is NOT the legal holder of most if not all of the code, considering they're ALL using Sandbox as a base. Most copyright laws anywhere don't give the same distinction to derivative works than to original works. Sandbox is not currently under any particular license, which however doesn't stop it from having Team Garry as it's original author. The key here, is the word "selling". There are many ways to be able to circumvent the Steam EULA by simply switching terminology. By saying that what you are "selling" is not actually the product itself but the service necessary to access certain features of the product, while having the product itself free doesn't constitute a breach of contract. You can NOT claim a copyright over anything you make. Well, in a way you can, but you cannot sue for copyright infringement unless this work is registered on a copyright agency, in the US this would be the US Copyright Office. All this means that all gamemodes that currently exist are freely distributable until one of them is properly a registered work. That means, feel free to leak to your heart's content.

Lots of dumb in here. If you code it in Lua, you own it, plain and simple. Lua license states this. If your gamemode is 100% your code, you can sell that code all you want and neither Garry nor Valve can make any claims against it. Deriving from sandbox means nothing as you're making calls to things someone else wrote and not actually using their code. Garry has stated you're free to do whatever you want with your code which means he gives derivation permission since all gamemodes derive from his base gamemode, NOT sandbox like big said. What you CAN'T do, is try to sell works from others (like sandbox gamemode) or things derived from valve (maps made using hammer, gmod binary modules including valve SDK code), etc. Also, if you write it on a computer (aka code or any text based work you make) you own it and have the copyright to it per the DMCA (supposing you live in the U.S.) without having to register it. Strictly speaking, anything you create of your own mind is yours and you own it. Registering with your local copyright office only assures that if you take it to court, the government has a firm date because of when you applied for the copyright versus you trying to prove that your copy on your computer with the windows meta-data created date is genuine considering you can modify that.

Any DLL modules being sold with a gamemode are a breach of the Source SDK license. Sub-Section C : Source SDK “You may use, reproduce and modify the SDK on a non-commercial basis solely to develop a modified game (a "Mod") for Half-Life 2 or other Valve products compatible with and using the Source Engine. You may reproduce and distribute the Mod in object code form, solely to licensed end users of Half-Life 2 or other compatible Valve products, provided that the Mod is made publicly available and distributed without charge on a non-commercial basis”

[QUOTE=Alex_grist;27383474]Any DLL modules being sold with a gamemode are a breach of the Source SDK license. Sub-Section C : Source SDK “You may use, reproduce and modify the SDK on a non-commercial basis solely to develop a modified game (a "Mod") for Half-Life 2 or other Valve products compatible with and using the Source Engine. You may reproduce and distribute the Mod in object code form, solely to licensed end users of Half-Life 2 or other compatible Valve products, provided that the Mod is made publicly available and distributed without charge on a non-commercial basis”[/QUOTE] Kuro's gamemodes are packaged with dlls which are essentially his DRM, is he violating the above?

who would buy a gamemode it stupid [editline]13th January 2011[/editline] [QUOTE=deaded38;27378574]I completely agree. Kuro for example, sells gamemodes for over $200. Why anybody would buy them, is beyond me.[/QUOTE] lol this guy sells the gamemodes whats he talk in a bout he sells darkrp mods and nexus wich [ DONT WORK] [url]http://www.garrysmod.org/downloads/?a=view&id=113244[/url]

No

[QUOTE=agmike;27383400]Lots of dumb in here. If you code it in Lua, you own it, plain and simple. Lua license states this.[/QUOTE] That's not what the Lua license states. The language itself is free, meaning that you can use all default libraries freely. It says nothing about ownership. [QUOTE=agmike;27383400]If your gamemode is 100% your code, you can sell that code all you want and neither Garry nor Valve can make any claims against it. Deriving from sandbox means nothing as you're making calls to things someone else wrote and not actually using their code. Garry has stated you're free to do whatever you want with your code which means he gives derivation permission since all gamemodes derive from his base gamemode, NOT sandbox like big said. What you CAN'T do, is try to sell works from others (like sandbox gamemode) or things derived from valve (maps made using hammer, gmod binary modules including valve SDK code), etc.[/QUOTE] Find one RP gamemode without this line, win a prize: [lua]DeriveGamemode("sandbox")[/lua] This goes beyond that. It runs on the Source engine, gamemodes cannot run outside of Garry's Mod as independent code, and therefore ARE using Source and are subject to the exact same limitation, the fact that gamemodes interact with Source without actually using licensed code is negligible in comparison to the fact that it is a derivative work and therefore isn't covered by the same licenses as original work. When your work doesn't actually rely on Source but instead interfaces with it you can call it entirely yours. Otherwise, you're subject to the exact same limitations that Source Mods have. You can sell it but only because Valve won't do anything about it, what you can't do is claim a registered copyright and therefore work that is worth something in a court of law. I encourage you to go ahead and try to sue someone over a leaked gamemode, see how far you can go. I'm betting 10 bucks you won't set foot on a court of law. [QUOTE=agmike;27383400]Also, if you write it on a computer (aka code or any text based work you make) you own it and have the copyright to it per the DMCA (supposing you live in the U.S.) without having to register it. Strictly speaking, anything you create of your own mind is yours and you own it. Registering with your local copyright office only assures that if you take it to court, the government has a firm date because of when you applied for the copyright versus you trying to prove that your copy on your computer with the windows meta-data created date is genuine considering you can modify that.[/QUOTE] Entirely false. There's nothing on any law that states that computers have some sort of different law which instantly registers copyrights for you. What would make a computer any different from, for example, a guitar as a method to create music? That makes no sense. The DMCA does not actually say anything about copyright infringement ( Read it ). The DMCA deals about anti circumvention methods. If your gamemode actually has some sort of anti circumvention method, well, not only it usually implies that you ARE selling a binary, but it also means your gamemode has some sort of backdoor. Registering means giving the government a reason to actually believe your claims that this software is yours. I find it extremely unlikely that a gamemode or mod is going to be given an entry, as Valve will do something about it. Therefore, all intents of suing server owners, or trying to scare them off with DMCA notices should be dismissed. Doesn't stop selling, true, but at least it gives you the guarantee that you can use it for free anyway.

[QUOTE=Ste@mpunk;27387169]who would buy a gamemode it stupid [editline]13th January 2011[/editline] lol this guy sells the gamemodes whats he talk in a bout he sells darkrp mods and nexus wich [ DONT WORK] [url]http://www.garrysmod.org/downloads/?a=view&id=113244[/url][/QUOTE] They do work. But at least I'm not saying that it's not illegal like Kuro does. I admit to it being "illegal". But it's not like Valve is going to sue me for it.

nexus 3 it courpt

It's not illegal but don't get pissy when someone leaks it and don't bother trying to DMCA any servers running the leak. [editline]13th January 2011[/editline] And that will happen. No doubt about it.

[QUOTE=Ste@mpunk;27398495]nexus 3 it courpt[/QUOTE] Define corrupt, all mighty darkrp player.

[QUOTE=garry;27387211]No[/QUOTE]

What moron would buy a gamemode in the first place? Maybe for $10-$15 for a well coded gamemode, to only pray your server does not die out. But anything beyond that point...is pretty stupid.

[QUOTE=|FlapJack|;27398696]It's not illegal but don't get pissy when someone leaks it and don't bother trying to DMCA any servers running the leak. [editline]13th January 2011[/editline] And that will happen. No doubt about it.[/QUOTE] Conna does this every time his gamemodes get leaked. I bet any of the companies he contacts just laugh at him (which is why the servers then "mysteriously" get DDoS'd from time to time).

[QUOTE=garry;27387211]No[/QUOTE] Finally, now you've got Garry's word maybe people will get off my back. I also queried Valve on it myself but people throw out this "it's illegal to sell gamemodes" argument at me all the time out of ignorance. [QUOTE=hexpunK;27435274]Conna does this every time his gamemodes get leaked. I bet any of the companies he contacts just laugh at him (which is why the servers then "mysteriously" get DDoS'd from time to time).[/QUOTE] Actually no, they end up taking it down. We also do not engage in illegal activities such as "DDoS attacks", as that would affect our proffessionalism.

Kuro, you are selling DLL files which are not yours.

[QUOTE=SlayerFin;27438637]Kuro, you are selling DLL files which are not yours.[/QUOTE] Thank you...

Omg :)

[QUOTE=.kurozael;27436950]Actually no, they end up taking it down. We also do not engage in illegal activities such as "DDoS attacks", as that would affect our proffessionalism.[/QUOTE] Your spelling and grammar already do that for you.

[QUOTE=.kurozael;27436950]Finally, now you've got Garry's word maybe people will get off my back. I also queried Valve on it myself but people throw out this "it's illegal to sell gamemodes" argument at me all the time out of ignorance. Actually no, they end up taking it down. We also do not engage in illegal activities such as "DDoS attacks", as that would affect our proffessionalism.[/QUOTE] Au contraire: IP Address | Occurences 86.30.131.228|289982 Blocked 289982 packets total. AC2_INFO/Print spam isn't above you though, get a job.

[QUOTE=thejjokerr;27453299]Kuro sells gamemodes for $200 and then asks for donations on his forums: (Got this 2 days ago) And the second email:[/QUOTE] Ignore the rest of the convo, but apparently Ideal hosting pays him too. [quote]kuro: I don't do anything bruv, the company deals with DCMA notices. kuro: I just code for the company and get paid. kuro: If you have any queries contact Ideal-Hosting. mr apple: No thanks. mr apple: The "company" has no legal standings. mr apple: You released skeleton as open source. kuro: Well that is something you'll have to speak to them about. mr apple: Not the "company", you. [/quote]

Why buy a gamemode when you can make your own? All you need is a little knowledge of lua, a few tutorials, and enough time.

This question generates so much e-drama... No, technically it is not illegal to sell your Lua gamemodes made for GMod. It can be considered wrong by many, since it's a game modification and it's meant to be free, but as Garry stated: it is not ILLEGAL, although many consider it to be WRONG. You wouldn't get into trouble for doing it, but you would lose a lot of people's respect. But what Kuro does, is illegal. Sure, not the fact that he sells the code, but the fact that he sells DLL files which he does not own with his gamemodes. Another thing that can't really be proven, but that a lot of people would agree with me on: he is known for performing DDoS attacks on servers using his leaks. There is probably some evidence for this, as well as server owners that can guarantee it, but who really cares? It's not gonna stop him, and people still buy his shit, so meh. It's just not worth arguing about it, since it generates so much e-drama.